WTF CSA?

[Jase619]

Are CSA the victims here?

 

While you need to give a new leader room to make a change, you don’t get amnesty each time a new person joins an organization. Ask Cyril.

 

Never said they were, just commenting on the notion that there won't be pitch forks for the new leader if some skeletons are uncovered. 

 

In no way am I saying give them amnesty, they need to sort there house out, punt.

[Shebeen]

has the cycling establoshment made any comments on this bombshell?

 

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/363014/government-wants-to-nationalise-all-sports-clubs-and-gyms/

[Patchelicious]

has the cycling establoshment made any comments on this bombshell?

 

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/363014/government-wants-to-nationalise-all-sports-clubs-and-gyms/

What they want and what they can actually get right is two very different things.

[Frosty]

It’s all well and good saying that we need to support the new leadership, but if their plans aren’t in the best interest of their “customers” and they don’t address problems raised by customers and other stakeholders, then why support them.

 

The statement did say that they want to support the clubs and organizers, but what do they (clubs and organizers) get back in return. This needs to be communicated so that there is buy-in from all stakeholders.

 

I wish them luck, and will support them if they are heading in the right direction.

[Andrew Steer]

Chicken vs Egg scenario

if we don't support CSA its irrelevant

If we do support the CSA theres the risk of no change despite the support and new leadership

 

substitute SA inc*. where I type CSA..

 

 

 

* Disclaimer: SAinc does not equal ANC

I'd have to disagree....

 

If we don't support them (licenses, events etc) - they simply cannot correct themselves. As a business they need income and to be viewed in a positive sentiment to attract potential business partners and or sponsors. Sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo, CSA like every single one of them needs an income to pay the bills and enact the changes we all want.

 

Secondly, the guy who all and sundry have been labeling (wrong or rightly) as the 'villain' in the CSA shenanigans, is gone - so surely the entity now deserves a fair shot at redemption? 

 

That's all I am saying... give them a fair crack. It will take time and a lot of passion to turn this ship around, and they're not going to be able to do it alone

[Andrew Steer]

It’s all well and good saying that we need to support the new leadership, but if their plans aren’t in the best interest of their “customers” and they don’t address problems raised by customers and other stakeholders, then why support them.

 

The statement did say that they want to support the clubs and organizers, but what do they (clubs and organizers) get back in return. This needs to be communicated so that there is buy-in from all stakeholders.

 

I wish them luck, and will support them if they are heading in the right direction.

Ciska and Co have been in place a couple days and are no doubt running around like crazy trying to put a National Champs on... 

 

Let's give them a moment to find their feet and then judge them on their merits

[Danger Dassie]

It’s all well and good saying that we need to support the new leadership, but if their plans aren’t in the best interest of their “customers” and they don’t address problems raised by customers and other stakeholders, then why support them.

 

The statement did say that they want to support the clubs and organizers, but what do they (clubs and organizers) get back in return. This needs to be communicated so that there is buy-in from all stakeholders.

 

I wish them luck, and will support them if they are heading in the right direction.

​100%. There is a monumental task ahead to repair reputational damage and broken relationships at club, provincial and national level. Especially a transparency in doing so, and a willingness to do things differently instead of the narrow definition of stakeholders. 

​In many respects this will have to start from the ground up, perhaps with a little less cow-towing to the UCI on things like sanctioned events and riders.

 

I like Ciska Austin though, big task ahead of her and I hope the support is forthcoming from the structures behind her. Wishing her the very best.

[Danger Dassie]

I'd have to disagree....

 

Agree to disagree. DND raises a valid point regardless.

 

If we don't support them (licenses, events etc) - they simply cannot correct themselves. As a business they need income and to be viewed in a positive sentiment to attract potential business partners and or sponsors. Sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo, CSA like every single one of them needs an income to pay the bills and enact the changes we all want.

 

These are symptoms of the problem, not the fundamental issue. There has been systemic mismanagement and a lack of openness in the way things are done. Pretty much the reason why sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo.

Sporting bodies are not businesses, and herin lies the problem. They are public entities here to serve the sport and it's participants. This involves a level of commercial sensibility and financial aptitude.

​They need the public support yes, they also need to earn it and show accountability. THEN attract the right partnerships.

 

Secondly, the guy who all and sundry have been labeling (wrong or rightly) as the 'villain' in the CSA shenanigans, is gone - so surely the entity now deserves a fair shot at redemption?

 

Not sure this is a factually correct statement, more of a straw man argument. There is always more to an entity than just one person. The same entity announced an "internal investigation" and barely 24 hours later the resignation of the GM is announced in the same breath. So now what? All is hunky dory?

Nonsense. We're back to square one with no accountability or transparency, just pressers with hyperbole. Little wonder than that some provincial structures are a joke if this the standard of a national body.

​It does not enact confidence.

 

That's all I am saying... give them a fair crack. It will take time and a lot of passion to turn this ship around, and they're not going to be able to do it alone

 

Obviously, and Ciska Austin is going to have her hands full, internally and externally. Hopefully she is able to kick into touch much of the fundamental basics as soon as possible, keeping in mind the above. Personally I have a lot of faith in her and believe she represents the kind of leadership sorely needed.

[Andrew Steer]

 

I'd have to disagree....

 

Agree to disagree. DND raises a valid point regardless.

 

If we don't support them (licenses, events etc) - they simply cannot correct themselves. As a business they need income and to be viewed in a positive sentiment to attract potential business partners and or sponsors. Sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo, CSA like every single one of them needs an income to pay the bills and enact the changes we all want.

 

These are symptoms of the problem, not the fundamental issue. There has been systemic mismanagement and a lack of openness in the way things are done. Pretty much the reason why sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo.

Sporting bodies are not businesses, and herin lies the problem. They are public entities here to serve the sport and it's participants. This involves a level of commercial sensibility and financial aptitude.

​They need the public support yes, they also need to earn it and show accountability. THEN attract the right partnerships.

 

Secondly, the guy who all and sundry have been labeling (wrong or rightly) as the 'villain' in the CSA shenanigans, is gone - so surely the entity now deserves a fair shot at redemption?

 

Not sure this is a factually correct statement, more of a straw man argument. There is always more to an entity than just one person. The same entity announced an "internal investigation" and barely 24 hours later the resignation of the GM is announced in the same breath. So now what? All is hunky dory?

Nonsense. We're back to square one with no accountability or transparency, just pressers with hyperbole. Little wonder than that some provincial structures are a joke if this the standard of a national body.

​It does not enact confidence.

 

That's all I am saying... give them a fair crack. It will take time and a lot of passion to turn this ship around, and they're not going to be able to do it alone

 

Obviously, and Ciska Austin is going to have her hands full, internally and externally. Hopefully she is able to kick into touch much of the fundamental basics as soon as possible, keeping in mind the above. Personally I have a lot of faith in her and believe she represents the kind of leadership sorely needed.

 

I agree... a lot more transparency of the recent history is required and definitely heading forward, but how far do we want to, and can we go back? CSA has been digging this hole for over a decade through many failed presidents and bad business decisions... many of the guilty parties are long, long gone. Mike Bradley's misdemeanor was relatively tiny in comparison...

 

I don't know who else still in the ranks might deserve our ire, so until I hear otherwise I want to give them some benefit of the doubt and let them get on with this massive task.

 

"Sporting bodies are not businesses, and herin lies the problem. They are public entities here to serve the sport and it's participants"

 

Maybe they aren't businesses in the true sense, but they still have overheads and salaries to pay just like anyone else. If you want professionals working for the betterment of the sport, they're going to need to pay their bonds with more than just passion and good will. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people who work for CSA for free, but the core full time positions surely require and deserve re-reimbursement. 

 

Anyways, let's see where this all goes - can only wish the new custodians well

Edited February 5, 2020 by Andrew Steer

[DieselnDust]

I'd have to disagree....

 

If we don't support them (licenses, events etc) - they simply cannot correct themselves. As a business they need income and to be viewed in a positive sentiment to attract potential business partners and or sponsors. Sporting bodies across the country are in huge poo, CSA like every single one of them needs an income to pay the bills and enact the changes we all want.

 

Secondly, the guy who all and sundry have been labeling (wrong or rightly) as the 'villain' in the CSA shenanigans, is gone - so surely the entity now deserves a fair shot at redemption? 

 

That's all I am saying... give them a fair crack. It will take time and a lot of passion to turn this ship around, and they're not going to be able to do it alone

 

 

so we're saying the same thing..

[Jase619]

I agree... a lot more transparency of the recent history is required and definitely heading forward, but how far do we want to, and can we go back? CSA has been digging this hole for over a decade through many failed presidents and bad business decisions... many of the guilty parties are long, long gone. Mike Bradley's misdemeanor was relatively tiny in comparison...

 

I don't know who else still in the ranks might deserve our ire, so until I hear otherwise I want to give them some benefit of the doubt and let them get on with this massive task.

 

"Sporting bodies are not businesses, and herin lies the problem. They are public entities here to serve the sport and it's participants"

 

Maybe they aren't businesses in the true sense, but they still have overheads and salaries to pay just like anyone else. If you want professionals working for the betterment of the sport, they're going to need to pay their bonds with more than just passion and good will. Don't get me wrong, there are some great people who work for CSA for free, but the core full time positions surely require and deserve re-reimbursement. 

 

Anyways, let's see where this all goes - can only wish the new custodians well

 

They are actually still businesses, the correct term we should be applying is they are Non-Profit businesses, meaning they shouldn't be making a profit. If they show a profit or a surplus on their income statement, and there aren't known and committed future plans for that surplus, that's a problem.

 

Agreed on the salary thing, no one will willingly work for an organisation for peanuts, especially if it is one that get's a lot of flak from it's constituents. They should be competitive in the job market, however it shouldn't be seen as a cash cow that can pay exorbitant salaries. The salaries should be tightly controlled to ensure that the money goes towards what it should be going towards, not salaries and lunch meetings 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Jase619

[Patchelicious]

You cannot pay people competitive private sector salaries without private sector non-performance consequences.

[Andrew Steer]

They are actually still businesses, the correct term we should be applying is they are Non-Profit businesses, meaning they shouldn't be making a profit. If they show a profit or a surplus on their income statement, and there aren't known and committed future plans for that surplus, that's a problem.

 

Agreed on the salary thing, no one will willingly work for an organisation for peanuts, especially if it is one that get's a lot of flak from it's constituents. They should be competitive in the job market, however it shouldn't be seen as a cash cow that can pay exorbitant salaries. The salaries should be tightly controlled to ensure that the money goes towards what it should be going towards, not salaries and lunch meetings 

100%... and on the potential surplus, it's not been something viable to even think about for some time. And might well not be for some time unless there is some serious monetary injection from someone/something like Lotto etc

 

Long term the body has to get to a point where they can stand on their own two feet and don't rely on cash injections like they have in the past.

[Patchelicious]

Ai

 

[Red Bird]

https://inthebunch.co.za/2020/02/i-go-into-my-new-role-with-eyes-wide-open-says-csa-president-ciska-du-plessis-austin/

 

Great vision. Let’s hope she can progress the sport.

[daniemare]

From the press release

 

The General Assembly unanimously agreed to rejuvenate the ‘club system’ and the role the Provincial and Regional affiliates play in the value chain offered to members and event organizers. As such this will be another focus area around which to build supporting administration and develop the sport.

 

In a world of Strava and Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat, what is the function of clubs and provincial bodies?

 

If you define these bodies in the 1980’s sense of the concept, good luck.

 

Sport organisation and structures need to wake up to modern trends.

 

I wonder how many people was the National AGM. But you think that having layer upon layer will be well supported.

 

For example, given the current municipal health and safety regulations, no clubs can really sustainably organise events (bar some exceptions). So what purpose do they serve as an official body which virtual and social clubs cannot do.

 

Wake up to realities, millennials do not organise in the way baby boomers did when information dissemination was by way of flyers, faxes and the Thursday club meeting at a local pub.

 

Can the provinces, we do not have that big a country. Can the official and regulatory burden on “clubs”. Where 10 people cycle together, let them not be burdened by paper work to be acknowledged as a club.

 

This continued persistence to control and be controlled is so archaic

Edited February 10, 2020 by daniemare