All things Team Qhubeka NextHash

[TNT1]

3 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said:

 

 

Ah, right. I did struggle to make head or tail of that vomited wall of text. Thanks.

[jcza]

16 hours ago, bradleyg said:

To add my 2cents worth:

It would seem that Doug could register a Protean for 2022 if all else fails according to the Daily Maverick post.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2021-10-25-africas-team-fights-for-world-tour-survival-after-funds-dry-up/

“What we will do in that scenario is keep our Continental team going with the funding streams we have. There is also an option we could keep going as a second division [UCI ProTeam] and then rely on wild cards into big races. There is a lot of popularity around the team and, because of our diversity, organizers want us in races.

I suppose we will know by the 15th Nov. I would however like to see the team return to its roots if they go the Protean route and these still available riders would make a good African contribution. Natneal Berhane. Tsgabu Grmay, Willie Smit. Yacob Debesay. Mulu Hailemichael. Morne Van Niekerk and Youcef Ruiguigi. I believe that these African riders have a lot to offer and can still improve. A targeted 3-5 year plan to get back to WT with the aim of turning these African riders into consistent winners at Protean level ( some have won already ) and bring these riders along to WT should be an objective. We should improve comparably to Australia and New Zealand in terms of rider quantity and quality within the next 5 years if the focus can shift a bit more to improving our African riders. I believe they have the ability to get to that level within 3-5 years. I would think that focusing on winning one day to week long races to get the winning going as well as to give the sponsors a ROI. would be going in the right direction. We do need a team from Africa racing at as high a level as possible and since Doug has already succeeded here and is at the top already, it would be natural that he would be able to do it again. Most African WT riders have come through Doug's teams at some point so he has proven that an African team has benefit for African riders. I would love to see these 7 African riders together with Nic and Reiny form the core of an African team going in a new winning direction. If I had the money, that's what I would insist on. Wishful thinking I suppose.. But you never know...................

But that was the plan when the team got to Europe first time round? We had South African and African riders. Something needs to change. 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, jcza said:

But that was the plan when the team got to Europe first time round? We had South African and African riders. Something needs to change. 

exactly! The decline started when the focus shifted away from developing African talent to acquiring twilight talent. But there is still something at the performance level that needs to be addressed to move the team forward.

[Shebeen]

1 hour ago, jcza said:

But that was the plan when the team got to Europe first time round? We had South African and African riders. Something needs to change. 

if anything, the whole MTNQ =>DDD=>TQA experiment has maybe shown that african riders are mainly going to battle to break into the world stage.

Almost all of the talents that the team has brought into the world tour have left the team, and not many remain in the world tour.

 

2018 on the far right, 10 south africans, 4 eritreans. they've all since left, with I guess Kudus who raced for Astana and now EF the one who has had some decent returns.

2021 far left, just the two japies left

 

 

 

here is a great pod on some of the challenges of being an african rider trying to break into the peleton

https://audioboom.com/posts/7878541-life-in-the-peloton-tsgabu-grmay

[Yyyy]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cofidis-sign-walscheid-and-villella/#disqus_thread

 

The big man Walscheid also gone

 

[Eldron]

1 minute ago, YaseenEnos said:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cofidis-sign-walscheid-and-villella/#disqus_thread

 

The big man Walscheid also gone

 

Yeah...there isn't a lot left to salvage (or attract sponsors).

There aren't too many nails left to put in the Qhubeka coffin (I'm still hoping for some awesome miracle though!)

[Eldron]

This has got to sting a little - especially because the majority of Protouch's point come from an ex Qhubeka rider...

I would guess the majority of Protouch's points were earned in Africa.

Apples and oranges comparison of course but daaaamn that must still sting.

 

[DieselnDust]

11 minutes ago, Eldron said:

This has got to sting a little - especially because the majority of Protouch's point come from an ex Qhubeka rider...

I would guess the majority of Protouch's points were earned in Africa.

Apples and oranges comparison of course but daaaamn that must still sting.

 

 

 

You see I'm not nasty to TQA, just realistic that the model is not working according to any of the mission statements nor is it delivering results. If  Local team earns more UCI points than a World tour team then its not an argh shame matter but one of urgency and professionalism.

TQA have had resources thrown at them. They're akin to a Titanic survivor being pulled into a lifeboat but they insist on staying in the water while Celine belts out "My heart will go on."

I dearly want to see Africa's Team succeed but it a painful soap opera at the moment thats worse than listening to 15min of Roblocks

[Eldron]

5 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

 

You see I'm not nasty to TQA, just realistic that the model is not working according to any of the mission statements nor is it delivering results. If  Local team earns more UCI points than a World tour team then its not an argh shame matter but one of urgency and professionalism.

TQA have had resources thrown at them. They're akin to a Titanic survivor being pulled into a lifeboat but they insist on staying in the water while Celine belts out "My heart will go on."

I dearly want to see Africa's Team succeed but it a painful soap opera at the moment thats worse than listening to 15min of Roblocks

Nobody ever accused you of being nasty to Qhubeka.

Qhubeka got their point against PRO Tour teams. Protouch got almost all of theirs from one man at one event without much competition. Hence the apples/oranges comment.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Eldron

[DieselnDust]

13 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Nobody ever accused you of being nasty to Qhubeka.

Qhubeka got their point against PRO Tour teams. Protouch got almost all of theirs from one man at one event without much competition. Hence the apples/oranges comment.

I got that. We need to consider the bang for the buck for those points. Succeeding at World tour level is important to create a team for African riders to step into. That requires results and points are the metric against which relative performance is measured. There has to be a focus on playing the system to ensure the objective is reached. On paper Protouch appears to be doing a better job. Sort of like an LMP2 car winning at Le Mans because the 3 Toyota LMP1 cars all broke down. It doesn't speak to the real performance, but the results sheet shows an LMP2 won because it got to the finish line. (hypothetical of course) 

[Eldron]

8 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I got that. We need to consider the bang for the buck for those points. Succeeding at World tour level is important to create a team for African riders to step into. That requires results and points are the metric against which relative performance is measured. There has to be a focus on playing the system to ensure the objective is reached. On paper Protouch appears to be doing a better job. Sort of like an LMP2 car winning at Le Mans because the 3 Toyota LMP1 cars all broke down. It doesn't speak to the real performance, but the results sheet shows an LMP2 won because it got to the finish line. (hypothetical of course) 

Qhubeka are on almost exactly the same ranking in UCI points and team budgets so the bang for buck is pretty spot on.

Protouch may have got more points but I'd hazard a guess that their global exposure is miniscule compared to Qhubeka. 

Points (like sponsorship) is only one metric of performance analysis. If points were the only metric then Premier Tech would have bought Protouch's license and had themselves a more successful team than Qhubeka in 1 fell swoop. Spoiler alert - Qhubeka are a better team than Protouch - despite having less UCI points.

[Jewbacca]

17 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Qhubeka are on almost exactly the same ranking in UCI points and team budgets so the bang for buck is pretty spot on.

Protouch may have got more points but I'd hazard a guess that their global exposure is miniscule compared to Qhubeka. 

Points (like sponsorship) is only one metric of performance analysis. If points were the only metric then Premier Tech would have bought Protouch's license and had themselves a more successful team than Qhubeka in 1 fell swoop. Spoiler alert - Qhubeka are a better team than Protouch - despite having less UCI points.

Yes... But points equal winning and results, which was decided earlier in the thread to be the only measure of success and the only measurable metric for a teams goals......... ????

[DieselnDust]

Points = remaining in the World tour which is where the exposure is or did I miss something here? Maybe there's a lot be gained by hiring actors and putting them on bikes in Assos kit, taking pictures and making movies and splurging those all over the internet. After all exposure is exposure but those you tube clips would be a lot cheaper.

They want to play in the world tour then surely they should at least do more than pretend they belong there. This whole make the world feel sorry for them and gift the spot because.....Africa has worn thin.  Its the pinnacle of the sport with no place for jokers. Better performing teams have been knocked out of the World Tour. Why does TQA deserve to remain there?

[Eldron]

28 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Yes... But points equal winning and results, which was decided earlier in the thread to be the only measure of success and the only measurable metric for a teams goals......... ????

This thread (and Diesel's value for money comment) got me to thinking - how much does a UCI point cost?

Here is my completely useless Friday contribution pm value for money:

Team budget / UCI point ratio for the top 10 Pro Tour teams:

Quickstep: €1,600 per point

INEOS: €3,333/point

Jumbo: €2090

UAE: €2832

Bahrain: €1725

Alpecin: €1211

BORA: €2189

AG2R: €3216

GROUPAMA: €2978

ISR: €2684

 

Qhubeka: €1831

Qhubeka is great value if you want to sponsor a Pro Tour team!

 

[Eldron]

23 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Points = remaining in the World tour which is where the exposure is or did I miss something here? Maybe there's a lot be gained by hiring actors and putting them on bikes in Assos kit, taking pictures and making movies and splurging those all over the internet. After all exposure is exposure but those you tube clips would be a lot cheaper.

They want to play in the world tour then surely they should at least do more than pretend they belong there. This whole make the world feel sorry for them and gift the spot because.....Africa has worn thin.  Its the pinnacle of the sport with no place for jokers. Better performing teams have been knocked out of the World Tour. Why does TQA deserve to remain there?

They qualified for their spot on the 2022 World Tour fair and square.

Once again you don't let facts get in the way of a good misguided rant.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Eldron

[Shebeen]

no news is not good news