Lyne Products - The Holy Rail Thread

[JanJan]

Surely if so many people are concerned we can crowd-source the funds for the lease...?

 

Cmon guys, I'll pitch in R5 for such an answer...

 

#CrowdsourceFEAnalasys

According to Ansys the 2 x M4 screws will hold just fine under a static load of 34 kg. (If you fill your water bottles with lead.)

 

The bolts and nuts won't fail unless they haven't been tightened properly resulting in bending moments around the screw heads.

[Christie]

^ for how much pre-load torque?

 

I ask because Ive seen that most stress in the bolt will often be caused by pre-load force (axial and shear components). Tricky to get it right, as you need the friction coeff between the thread of the screw and the rivnut, and the coeff under the screw head. Plus accurate fea on a screw helix with contact is a real pain (Ive done it before because I had to - a lot of elements are needed to define the helix, and to converge the stress at the root of the first 3 threads which transfer 60%+ of the load, the mesh needs to be even finer.)

 

Then add external load on top of that.

 

It is possible to break either the rivnut or the screw without any external load. A shot blasted M4 screw on a plastic cage (or heaven forbid, a cage with a rubber grommet at the bolt hole) has massive bolt collar friction. Screw can go "Plink" as you fit the cage.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Christie

[Christie]

Anyhow, to come back to the question:

 

I suspect bottle cages work well because the cage and the bottle is flexible relatice to the bolt and frame. So they would flex under external load and only transfer a small % of this to the bolt+rivnut+frame.

 

These rails need to be stiffer than a normal cage, else they would rattle someting fierce. So more external load will go to the interface, hence me wondering if the rivnuts can take the extra load.

Till later, fellow beings in cyberspace

Edited January 16, 2019 by Christie

[BaGearA]

Anyhiw, to come back to the question:

 

I suspect bottle cages work well because the cage and the bottle is flexible relatice to the bolt and frame. So they would flex under external load and only transfer a small % of this to the bolt+rivnut+frame.

 

These rails need to be stiffer than a normal cage, else they would rattle someting fierce. So more external load will go to the interface, hence my question if the rivnuts can take the extra load.

the flex has a very fine line I think , too much and it damages the frame too little and the bottle jumps out 

 

 

obviously you can get around this with bottle cage shape ( like Spez ZEE cages : also see : BEST BOTTLE CAGE EVA )

 

Personally I wouldn't risk it on A carbon frame , alloy I'd push it till it break s

[OnTheRicky]

According to Ansys the 2 x M4 screws will hold just fine under a static load of 34 kg. (If you fill your water bottles with lead.)

 

The bolts and nuts won't fail unless they haven't been tightened properly resulting in bending moments around the screw heads.

 

Hand calcs would also do... For dynamic impact loads you could see up to 3G

[Lyne Components]

Hi Guys

 

Sorry for being so distant on this thread, we have been inundated with queries about this product since launching it.

 

We have had a few queries with concerns about loading the two bottle cage bolts with the extra weight. Our opinion is this:

 

Loading up these bolts is not a new concept, people have been running larger bottles up to 1L with extra adapters and for pumps & bombs etc. for years. And some have indeed failed, which is most likely related to poor quality rivnuts or over/under torqued bottle cage bolts. If you have bottle cage bolt/rivnut failure then you will most likely have this using a regular setup or a Holy Rail.

 

That said, we would recommend adding reinforcement straps (coming soon) to longer rail setups. Like in Sepias case, he opted to try the 500mm rail without a strap and was unhappy with the stability. For the 260mm rail we are confident that straps are not necessary, but those who are weary could still add them for their own peace of mind.

 

The last thing, which I think is not considered, is the fact that the rail is a hollow profile. We tried to find the right balance of stiffness versus forgiveness in the profile. The result is an adequately stiff profile that does allow a bit of give if the rail receives a side impact from a crash or aggressive use of the bottle cage. We believe the rail would fail and twist before damaging the frame should it encounter a serious amount of force. The rubber skirt also works as a damper to stop vibration travelling between the frame and the rail and helps preload the rail when tightened down.

 

About compatibility, we are trying our best to compile some solutions on to a blog, but as said above, have been inundated with enquiries so will do so when time allows so. In the mean time I am going to post some setups we got working so far below.

 

Please email us with any pictures and info of your working setups to info@lynecomponets.com

 

Cheers

 

Dayle  

[Lyne Components]

Scott Spark 2016- Carbon

Frame Size: Size L

Bottles: 650ml & 750ml

Notes: More compact 650ml bottle could make a little more space under the shock.

 

[Lyne Components]

Santacruz Blur 2018

Frame Size: Size L

Bottles: 500ml & 650ml

Notes: Shock must be inverted for clearance, lockout cable run along with the brake hose to the shock.

 

[Lyne Components]

Pinarello Dogma Full Sus 

Frame Size: XL

Bottles: 750ml & 750ml + Box

Notes: None

 

[Lyne Components]

Giant Reign Carbon 2018

Frame Size: Size M

Bottles: 650ml + Box

Notes: None

 

[Lyne Components]

Does Lyne not have a printable template, like Wolftooth? That way you can print it and check the measurements on your frame.

 

Hi 

 

Here is a 1:1 Scale diagram.

 

Please note that bottle sizes may vary slightly between bottle manufacturers.

 

Cheers

 

Dayle

DUAL CAGE DIAGRAM.pdf

Edited January 16, 2019 by Lyne Components

[Zahir.R]

received mine some days ago.. Awsum product.. the guys @Lyne are super efficient, received my order in quick time.. gotta still ride more thou.. just happy to not be carrying my spares in my Jersey pocket...id like to see how it will hold up in the Mud and wet & after a few washes..

 

..Silverback Sesta Pro

Frame size: M

620ml + Box

 

 

[Lyne Components]

Scott Spark RC900 2017

Frame Size: Size L

Bottles: 650ml + 750ml

Notes: Used Scott cages and bottles. For this setup the multitool bracket must be mounted under the bottle cage.

 

[Vetplant]

 

Scott Spark RC900 2017

 

Frame Size: Size L

Bottles: 650ml + 750ml

Notes: Used Scott cages and bottles. For this setup the multitool bracket must be mounted under the bottle cage.

Cool use of the product, will definitely look into using it like this

[thisismyotherbike]

Have you installed on a Trek Top Fuel? Don't think two bottles would fit, but would be great to have the cage and box like on the Silverback Sesta Pro above

[PhilipV]

I printed the diagram to check it on my bikes. It'll fit. Now I'm just waiting (im)patiently for the tube strap to come to market.