[Event] EWC 3 Jonkershoek Enduro

[Slowbee]

busy planning now 

 

1st weekend of November is the first available time. There should be enough interest between my group and others... Could be a rad day out!

oh NICE! miss out on helping at both events ! We will be some where in Zambia then!

[nox1111]

Any cool crash stories - and long term injuries from the event?

I saw a gent with cracked ribs at the medic tent - that went down on Plumber.

[Jewbacca]

Any cool crash stories - and long term injuries from the event?

I saw a gent with cracked ribs at the medic tent - that went down on Plumber.

If any of you can find my pride and a 10c size piece of my tire on Iron Monkey I'm still trying to figure out what happened......

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

If any of you can find my pride and a 10c size piece of my tire on Iron Monkey I'm still trying to figure out what happened......

YOu were thinking about the beer. 

[SpecialK]

Any cool crash stories - and long term injuries from the event?

I saw a gent with cracked ribs at the medic tent - that went down on Plumber.

 

I went OTB at top of Armageddon, tried plowing the ground with my face but luckily wearing a full face. thumb decided to stay behind though, so looks like I tore a ligament off the base of it. Seeing a hand specialist tomorrow to get final diagnosis and looking at a potential reattachment surgery.

[Edge_Design]

It's cost the EWS ones are alot to buy and with the great exchange rate it's a massive investment. There isn't much to recoup from that outlay as well unless you make people buy a chip and then they own that. Sure you can rent the kit back into the event as as part of the business plan (and also rent it out to other events, which there aren't that many of) to cover the initial outlay. I'd guess the guys had to find a decent balance between cost and reliability because everyone moans if the system isn't working well but no one really wants to put their hand on their pockets in the form of larger entry fees / additional costs  to help fund the top notch German ones. 

 

Would be interested to know the costs involved... This event should have generated R100k+ in entry fees (before sponsors/exhibitors etc) so there is a fair amount of cash involved. The organisers need to make some money but I'm sure some money could be set aside to finance better equipment over a couple of years? The timing works within reason but it is a little outdated tech and when there are only a few seconds between the top positions the timing matters.

[Jewbacca]

Would be interested to know the costs involved... This event should have generated R100k+ in entry fees (before sponsors/exhibitors etc) so there is a fair amount of cash involved. The organisers need to make some money but I'm sure some money could be set aside to finance better equipment over a couple of years? The timing works within reason but it is a little outdated tech and when there are only a few seconds between the top positions the timing matters.

Sure.

 

290 x 300 = R87000.

 

Not everyone of the 290 paid (volunteers etc)

 

Do you really think there are sponsors who donate money? 

 

I get what you are saying, but 1 year ago Enduro races were dead. Cancelled due to lack of interest.

 

EWC has invested a heap of time, effort and resource re creating the scene.

 

Asking them to then outlay everything to better improve the timing system they created themselves is a bit cheeky?

 

They designed the system because all the other systems wouldn't work or made putting on the races an economic hole.

 

I think if people are so intent on their split seconds they should put their own hands in their own pockets, otherwise just be really really thankful that the EWC team have sweated blood to give us a series worth entering, with times for every stage.

 

If you were around for the pre EWC events you will appreciate how good this system is.

 

As a package I am super stoked with the EWC. My times don't really matter and no offence, neither do any of ours on this forum.

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Would be interested to know the costs involved... This event should have generated R100k+ in entry fees (before sponsors/exhibitors etc) so there is a fair amount of cash involved. The organisers need to make some money but I'm sure some money could be set aside to finance better equipment over a couple of years? The timing works within reason but it is a little outdated tech and when there are only a few seconds between the top positions the timing matters.

The SportIdent system that the EWS uses has a base cost of $12,000 on special or $16,000 normally. 

 

This provides enough pods for 150 riders and enough readers for 5 stages. Additional chips are $68 each if 10 or more are bought... 

 

The existing timing system works well, is far cheaper and can accommodate a few more than 150 off the bat, or more with a few more bands being made. 

 

I'm sure the timing would be more accurate with these, but at the cost of R180k minimum I don't think it's a viable option at all, to be honest. 

 

Sauce:

http://sportident.us/Air-MTB-Enduro-Timing-Set-air-enduro.htm

http://sportident.us/SI-Active-Card-Air-SIAC-10503.htm

[Duane_Bosch]

I think a few seconds here or there isn't going to make any real difference. No one is racing the EWC to pay the bills.

 

And can anyone really argue that the top 5 guys on the weekend isn't a true reflection of the 5 fastest guys in SA?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

to add to Jewboy's numbers, there are costs for medics, equipment hire (PA system and the person manning it) as well as various other blind costs such as venue hire, course tape / flags etc etc. 

 

I'll agree with Jewy on teh timing, too. It's far better IMO than the other systems that have been used beforehand. Doesn't need cell signal, doesn't need individual active tags and is already developed. Biggest delays in the start & end times are people who don't position their tags correctly. There are instances where a switch of the marshall's unit is required (like what apparently happened to Matt Lombardi at teh bottom of one stage) but that's rare. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

 

I think a few seconds here or there isn't going to make any real difference. No one is racing the EWC to pay the bills.

 

And can anyone really argue that the top 5 guys on the weekend isn't a true reflection of the 5 fastest guys in SA?

 

Hell no. 

[Meezo]

On the Enduro scene?

 

Who are the fastest, i think it is... The other's that should of been in the top 5 i heard had incidents, Tim Bentley and Jason Boule are the 2 that spring to mind?

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

On the Enduro scene?

 

Who are the fastest, i think it is... The other's that should of been in the top 5 i heard had incidents, Tim Bentley and Jason Boule are the 2 that spring to mind?

and Ike Claassens in the jr field, but he came off hard on phoenix, I think. 

[CJ Van]

The SportIdent system that the EWS uses has a base cost of $12,000 on special or $16,000 normally. 

 

This provides enough pods for 150 riders and enough readers for 5 stages. Additional chips are $68 each if 10 or more are bought... 

 

The existing timing system works well, is far cheaper and can accommodate a few more than 150 off the bat, or more with a few more bands being made. 

 

I'm sure the timing would be more accurate with these, but at the cost of R180k minimum I don't think it's a viable option at all, to be honest. 

 

Sauce:

http://sportident.us/Air-MTB-Enduro-Timing-Set-air-enduro.htm

http://sportident.us/SI-Active-Card-Air-SIAC-10503.htm

The last Enduro that we had where 150 tags would have been enough was last year at Jonkers, but that could be because the dates were changed, and some people could not make it on the second date.  We had just under 300 riders at Jonkers on Sunday, about 275 I think.  The starter kit would then not cost you R180k but more like R340k because they would need at least 300 tags and you have to add the software to the package.  And this will limit you to only 5 stages.

 

The pods we use at EWC can also be reprogramed on the fly by the marshals to time a different stage if we need to replace faulty pods.  Last year at Ezelenduro PhilipV were able to take stage one pods to stage 5, reprogram them and all was happy.  

 

On Sunday we had 2 possible no scans on the stage 3 start pod and one possible no scan on 4 start.  This could have been miss scans where the lights did not go on and the pod did not beep and the rider should have taged again, most likely, or a glitch in the system.  But only 3 possible miss scans for the whole event is not too bad.  I know Dan has been testing the pods from stage 3 after the event to try and duplicate a miss scan but he could not get a miss scan again.  I would say they are quite reliable. 

 

The biggest issue with not scanning someone out in time is usually the tag not facing down or someone’s long sleeve shirt is over the tag and the marshal cannot see the tag. 

 

Long story short, the EWS system would be awesome but with the cost of medics and other stuff they are not making enough money to justify the expense for the system.  If there were more events like this in SA and they could rent it out, maybe then….  

Edited October 10, 2019 by CJ Van

[PhilipV]

Don't forget that the pods are portable. They don't need a bakkie or a bike to get to position. Marshals can ride with them in a pocket. This is rather useful on races like Ezel where the starts require a 60min hike to get there.

We can also program them on the spot to a different stage, so the ss1 pods become backups for Ss4 etc. I've done this in the field on two races.

 

Also, by having built the system themselves, Harry and Dan know the code and how to use the data.

 

 

Ps: for some reason I saw a couple of riders trying to scan their watches over the LCD, and not the blue bit that has SCAN written on it?

Edited October 10, 2019 by PhilipV

[Edge_Design]

The SportIdent system that the EWS uses has a base cost of $12,000 on special or $16,000 normally. 

 

This provides enough pods for 150 riders and enough readers for 5 stages. Additional chips are $68 each if 10 or more are bought... 

 

The existing timing system works well, is far cheaper and can accommodate a few more than 150 off the bat, or more with a few more bands being made. 

 

I'm sure the timing would be more accurate with these, but at the cost of R180k minimum I don't think it's a viable option at all, to be honest. 

 

Sauce:

http://sportident.us/Air-MTB-Enduro-Timing-Set-air-enduro.htm

http://sportident.us/SI-Active-Card-Air-SIAC-10503.htm

 

Thanks - that's a lot more than I would have expected it to cost and I definitely agree that isn't practical. I wonder where the systems used by the XC events come from and if they couldn't be rented for these events if they work for this type of special stage timing.

 

I don't really agree the existing system works well (by 2019 tech standards) but it does work which is priority number 1.