Will you repair this?

[Longbarn Killer]

All well and good from a technical standpoint and lots of nice jargon. I respect that you can effectively and cosmetically match the repair and I accept that your laminates and maybe layup are acceptable but one thing you do not account for: Carbon frames are designed to be strong in one or several directions and somewhat compliant in others. To feel this ride a steel framed road bike and get onto a carbon road bike and feel how much smoother the carbon rides over the same rough tar surface.

The repaired areas in my opinion will differ with the design and manufactured frame and the repaired frame will NOT be the same as the original.

Although I am on your side with the replacement thing, I'm just curious as to how many people will be able to feel the difference in ride quality between an original frame and a repaired frame.

 

I don't think I'll feel the difference. After 2 years on a carbon frame, I built up an aluminium frame and expected to feel the difference. I couldn't.

[Capricorn]

@ Capricorn: I can attemt an answer to the second one:

 

The test manufacturers do are not all the same - there are few standard tests. Some can be done, but others will consume frame life.

 

There cerainly are tests that can be done to inspect the repair, like flash thermography. Imo the insurance should have it done in the case of a repair.

 

if there are tests to qualify the repairs, then it should not be optional wrt repairs to critical areas. I'm pushing for this given the propensity for seemingly most insurance companies opting for repairs as opposed to replacement. Cheaper for them, but where's the assurance to the public for the repairs, especially when it involves nullification of warranties still with substantial time on them.

I'm a trust but verify kind of guy when it comes to structural repairs.

and frankly, the insurance industry shouldn't be the one to determine what is an acceptable repair.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Capricorn

[BigDL]

QQ - is anyone aware of, has heard of or knows somebody who has had a carbon repair done that has subsequently failed? I certainly haven't but I have seen a few original carbon forks etc that have failed. 

[Mamil]

Seems that's a no!

 

QQ - is anyone aware of, has heard of or knows somebody who has had a carbon repair done that has subsequently failed? I certainly haven't but I have seen a few original carbon forks etc that have failed. 

[lechatnoir]

 

I'm a trust but verify kind of guy when it comes to structural repairs.

and frankly, the insurance industry bean counters shouldn't be the one to determine what is an acceptable repair.

 

there. I fixed it.

[Carbon Ninja]

Jirre boet, sounds like you've ingested a date-rape drug.

 

Take your story to Discovery, they'll love you forever

 

In the context of 16 days of activism against violence against women and children, and in the context of all those victims of date rape, and in the interests of general decency and sensitivity toward women and your fellow human beings, I suggest that you offer an apology, not to me (I couldn't care less what you think of me), but to those on this forum who might have read this and been offended. I also think a comment like this should be handled by the forum moderator. It's next level inappropriate.

[The Ouzo]

so heres a thing. If your crash you're car, in order for warranty to be maintained it needs to be repaired by an OEM approved panel shop. Knowing someone in the panel industry I know they have some high standards they need to adhere to in order to keep that OEM approved certification.

i can comment about other manufacturers, but I know with our cars if you have had it repaired, even at an OEM panel shop, it still needs to go to an OEM workshop for all sensors and safety equipment to be checked and or calibrated.

 

bearing the above in mind, and echoing certain sentiments in this thread, it would be prudent for bicycle repair places to also adhere to certain OEM agreed standards. The entire frame of a bike can be considered a safety critical item.

[Carbon Ninja]

Did not miss it.  Yes is a qualification, but there is no governing body to set code of ethics, standards of practice within the industry, continuing professional development or accountability.

 

What comes out of this for me, if a frame is that badly damaged as the OP's is and insurance want to repair it, As it seems to be a lost cause fighting it on replacing rather than repairing.  I will be fighting the insurance company on who takes responsibility for public liability for failure of the repairs in the future as at present this seem to only be based on a level of trust from one quote saying they can repair it.

 

I agree on the idea of establishing a regulatory body wholeheartedly. 

 

For interest I find that about half of my repair quotes are accepted by insurance. I assume that 50% f people who take on their insurers on the replace or repair issue are successful. 

 

I recently had my company name dragged through the mud by a local cyclist in her dogged pursuit of a new frame. In the end it was escalated all the way to the insurance ombud, who ruled in the insurers favour and the bike was eventually repaired. It was a deeply unpleasant experience for me.

[Carbon Ninja]

Your a lousy shot   ....... none taken on my part 

 

If this is the way industry is going and for those doing such insurance repairs, public liability insurance should be considered, especially the way the world is going with ambulance chasing lawyers!!

 

As a client having such repairs done, I would be insisting on seeing such liability insurance .... if nothing else it might, there again might not give me some peace of mind when am going downhill at 70kms/hr on a repaired frame 

You've motivated me to look again at getting personal liability cover. 

[Carbon Ninja]

I'll get to answering all the other great questions and comments in a bit. Got kids to pick up. Thank you.

[openmind]

Foobar!

 

It's "fubar" (effed up beyond repair)

 

"foo" and "bar" are temporary variables used in programming

 

[BogusOne]

so heres a thing. If your crash you're car, in order for warranty to be maintained it needs to be repaired by an OEM approved panel shop. Knowing someone in the panel industry I know they have some high standards they need to adhere to in order to keep that OEM approved certification.

i can comment about other manufacturers, but I know with our cars if you have had it repaired, even at an OEM panel shop, it still needs to go to an OEM workshop for all sensors and safety equipment to be checked and or calibrated.

 

bearing the above in mind, and echoing certain sentiments in this thread, it would be prudent for bicycle repair places to also adhere to certain OEM agreed standards. The entire frame of a bike can be considered a safety critical item.

This is very true but unfortuanately as shaper for instance and a few others have pointed out and yourself there is no governing body for the carbon trade... Especially when it comes to bicycles so thats what makes it easy for any jack and jill to buy a pap and lap kit and start doing it... The panelshop industry i know well and have had shops taken off insurance panels in the past for not adhering to the standards... 

 

As far as getting OEM approval for bicycles in SA from the manufacturers, thats a story and a half.... Abroad there are many many refurbishers with certified refinishing approvals but us in SA dont get that unfortunately. And although I get work from some brands directly on occasion and refferals also directly from some brands I still can not get dedicated OEM refinishing accreditation like my counterparts abroad. But it is what it is so we make do with what we got.

[Capricorn]

This is very true but unfortuanately as shaper for instance and a few others have pointed out and yourself there is no governing body for the carbon trade... Especially when it comes to bicycles so thats what makes it easy for any jack and jill to buy a pap and lap kit and start doing it... The panelshop industry i know well and have had shops taken off insurance panels in the past for not adhering to the standards... 

 

As far as getting OEM approval for bicycles in SA from the manufacturers, thats a story and a half.... Abroad there are many many refurbishers with certified refinishing approvals but us in SA dont get that unfortunately. And although I get work from some brands directly on occasion and refferals also directly from some brands I still can not get dedicated OEM refinishing accreditation like my counterparts abroad. But it is what it is so we make do with what we got.

 

what's the sticking point ? 

[BogusOne]

what's the sticking point ? 

Normally its the frame warranty card that gets played but in general i think there is more to it than that. I have given up trying.

Just as a matter of interest on this point... I was recently contacted by one of the well know factories in the east for a well known big brand name to do custom paintwork on some frames as it was cheaper for them to courier to me and have it done here and courier back than anywhere else in the world...  

 

At the end of the day as with most things in SA at the moment  you get things not on merit anymore but through who you know where... so as I said it is what it is and we make do with what we got....

[Mopkop]

So I've signed the acceptance of loss and they're paying to replace the bike. Then I get a call to say that they won't be paying the money to me until I pay the R1100 inspection fee to the carbon repairer. I was totally unaware of any inspection fees until today.

 

I paid it as im gatvol of this whole process now already FFS. Im so glad its done!!!

 

Thank you Anton and Graeme for sharing some industry information, I'm sure I'm not the only one who learnt something from this thread!

[BogusOne]

So I've signed the acceptance of loss and they're paying to replace the bike. Then I get a call to say that they won't be paying the money to me until I pay the R1100 inspection fee to the carbon repairer. I was totally unaware of any inspection fees until today.

 

I paid it as im gatvol of this whole process now already FFS. Im so glad its done!!!

 

Thank you Anton and Graeme for sharing some industry information, I'm sure I'm not the only one who learnt something from this thread!

GOEIE @#@%$@ amper se ek iets wat my geban sal laat word... R1100 inspection fee  No wonder my bank balance looks so K@K.... 

 

For what its worth though glad you got sorted in the end mate  and always happy to give advice when and where i can, have never made any secret about that   Remember to post the new ride ne En moenie weer neer bliksem nie