Fork Debate

[Rock Guy]

Some comments below.

 

I don't know hey, the Fox is supposed to be a better fork than the RS. But like many others have mentioned, it is very far from being a great fork. Maybe the 100mm is just not working for you and you miss the extra 20mm.

 

You didn't perhaps change anything else at the same time? Like maybe a different stem or handlebar? A wider handlebar and shorter stem would also improve handling quite a bit.

 

 

 

At your weight the 34 will be a much better fork. the 32 is about weight saving and so it's quite floppy. the damper on the Evo is also not great at all. You'd be surprised how much better a Fit4 or Grip2 damper is. But first, we need more info to really determine where the problem lies.

 

1. When exactly does the fork not feel great? Most people feel this on fast descents, but you don't do much of this. Is it on corrugated dirt road at speed? I don't imaging uphills will be an issue. Descents, twisties with loose sand. I just never feel front is planted. Tried setup ad infinitum. Ardent race and love it at softer psi as have widish rims (23mm). Also get my weight well fwd.

 

2. Is it when you are breaking? or when you full gas on a straight? Twisties only

 

3.Presumably you ride a 29er? What bike is it fitted to? Adrenalin. Factory spec is 100mm fork but brought in by Willie Engelbrecht who suggests 120mm better. Problem is my 120mm is the 30mm fork and the 32 is 100....

 

4. Do you know what offset the fork has? (typically either 44mm or 51mm) Rake = 51mm. What difference does this make? If you were on a slacker bike this could have resulted in less than ideal steering, but I doubt that would be the case for the Adrenaline.

 

5. Do you have any volume spacers in the fork? (you really should if possible) Have no idea. Will check when get it serviced. If you're not running out of travel then this shouldn't be a problem (You don't ride trails or drops, so no need to worry about bottom out then).

 

FYI. you've changed from a 120mm fork, which has more travel so likely a plusher ride, to a 100mm fork which is likely to be less plush and probably why you prefer to ride it at lower than recommended pressure. The 100mm fork would have steepened your bike's head angle quite a bit, doing this has made your bike's handling feel more sketchy. It's pretty well known that slacker head angles result in more confidence inspiring steering. You've gone the wrong way in this regard. I set fork up according to my sag at around 20% (This is actually less sag than I expected, you could try running the fork at lower pressure and adding a volume spacer or two), as well as making sure I use most but generally not all of the travel after a ride. Comparing to the pressure suggested by Fox for my weight I'm on the softer side. What you say about the head angle makes sense. In essence the reason for my post is to get a definitive answer as to rather going back to 30mm and 120mm travel (which many would say is too much for a 30mm but Ive had no spaghetti feeling), or stick with the 100mm 32mm.Apparently the thru axle makes a difference, I'm again not convinced. Am slightly leaning towards the 30mm. PS I don't run out of travel.

 

To make matters worse, running the 100mm fork at lower than suggested pressure has made the effective head angle even steeper. (what % is your sag at now?). Throw an Evo damper into this mix and you have a recipe for disaster. It's quite likely that you're not running your rebound fast enough (or that the Evo damper just struggles to keep up) and that you're fork is packing up on successive hits (e.g. corrugation) and you end up riding way to far forward over your front wheel (feeling lank sketchy) with effectively no shock travel left. Maybe I should try to speed up the rebound - Fox suggest for my weight I set at a couple of clicks from closed? I don't think this will help you through the twisty sandy stuff. If you're not running out of travel and teh fork isn't getting packed down on successive hits you're rebound is probably fine where it is.

 

[DieselnDust]

My point is I don't feel a major difference. Whether Fox is premium I doubt very much. I think it's up to personal taste. 2 family members have had repeated qc issues on shocks and forks on 2 brand new Trek Top Fuels...

 

 

 

I would agree with you. for the majority of users a fork with a well tuned damping system is going to deliver everything they need for a pleasant MTB experience. The damper you buy in a base line product today was top of the range 5 years ago and that worked just fine. One would have to go back more than 15years to still find really horrid dampers in the market. Fox Float RP23 is still a very decent rear shock, with spares still available.

The only forks that have blown me away with the upgraded performance is the new RS SID 35 and SID Ultimate as well as the SIDLuxe rear shock.

Manitou Suspension is now owned by Hayes Hydraulics and they're working hard to revive the Manitou brand to what is was 15 years ago. The forks work really well.

The RS30 Gold RL uses the older Motion Control damper that was a superb product. The trickle down benefits the product immensely to the point where it punches way above its weight. Its basically a Reba in a heavier chassis. Te RS Reba is probably the best value for money fork in the XC sector available from anyone.

So if you're not feeling the difference between the RS30Gold then keep it and flog the Fox.

The FOX will add some resale value to your bike thanks to perception but the 30 isn't a crap product at all. It packs a lot of performance in a cost effective package 

[Eddy Gordo]

Ardents are not a good front tyre. They always slip and slide. 

[Headshot]

My point is I don't feel a major difference. Whether Fox is premium I doubt very much. I think it's up to personal taste. 2 family members have had repeated qc issues on shocks and forks on 2 brand new Trek Top Fuels...

 

Its simple really, a basic Fox 32 and the RS are not that far removed in performance so the difference is hard to notice. Go from either of those to a Pike with thicker stanchions and better damping and you will notice the difference - a lack of excessive fork dive under braking, less packing up on repeated hits and much improved braking due to the lack of flex in the fork legs. And of course, more accurate steering.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Headshot

[HenkD]

Get a section you ride a lot and then start playing with the settings to see what works for you. make sure it is serviced and operating as it should.

 

Once you have it responding right for you you will feel the difference

[hubbernero]

This is exaclty the problem I have. I had a cheap(er) Manitou Markhor fork, really liked it. Then I upgraded to a RS Reba. Just not the same and I blame the setup. I can't find the sweet spot.

 

This is my second Reba, the first one was fine, not much better than the Manitou. I am actually considering a Markhor again. Don't think I would actually do it, but maybe.

I went from a Fox to a RS Reba, worst decision of my life. I just can’t get that fork to come close to feeling as nice and plush as the Fox did. I have had it serviced and checked multiple times, always thought there was something wrong with it. Every time I’m told everything is in order and working as it should.

 

Definitely going back to Fox when the budget allows.

[love2fly]

By slower do you mean more rolling resistance?

 

I've Also Had Both in Front - I feel the Ardent "Bites Better" on Soft Sand but It's a Slower Tyre.

Edited April 9, 2021 by love2fly

[love2fly]

Yip I'll look at spacers. It does seem quite firm and maybe that's why I can run it a bit softer. I fall afoul of popular wisdom on Tyre pressures and typically run 1.6 and 1.1. The 1.1 helps in the looser stuff. If I ride a firmer trail I'll go to 1.8 and 1.4.

To answer your question: I have gone from a 100mm stem and 720 bars to 50mm and 800mm. I have tried both on both forks and prefer the longer bars but due to too much bush in the Cradle reverted to 50mm stem and 720 bars for now.

Long term I prefer the longer bars and shorter stem.

I guess I'm going to have to live with not trusting the front in a corner with loose sand... Would love to try a dropper some time as I think lowering COG would really help.

Thanks for the constructive suggestions...

 

Some comments below.

 

I don't know hey, the Fox is supposed to be a better fork than the RS. But like many others have mentioned, it is very far from being a great fork. Maybe the 100mm is just not working for you and you miss the extra 20mm.

 

You didn't perhaps change anything else at the same time? Like maybe a different stem or handlebar? A wider handlebar and shorter stem would also improve handling quite a bit.

[love2fly]

OK some feedback. Firstly thank you to everyone for some really valuable and interesting thoughts. Thoughts which stimulated the folkowing: Last night I thought I'd go back to basics and tweak the rebound and found something bih. When I used to ride the RS 30 I set it according to the RS App (Trailhead) which said to set Rebound at - 1 Click. I believed that due to being a bit heavier, the fork is already somewhat compressed thus needing less rebound.

I did the "bounce" test and found I could back off the rebound a lot. I had it at - 2 or 3 but now have it at probably - 7 or thereabouts. Different bike. Much more feel in the corners. The - 1 felt numb in comparison and I'm sure that's due to the fork taking a couple of hits but not being able to recover. I even rode a slightly higher Tyre pressure and am sure I can up it some more which will keep the tyre more consistent through the corners. Very chuffed.

[patham]

I went from a Fox to a RS Reba, worst decision of my life. I just can’t get that fork to come close to feeling as nice and plush as the Fox did. I have had it serviced and checked multiple times, always thought there was something wrong with it. Every time I’m told everything is in order and working as it should.

 

Definitely going back to Fox when the budget allows.

 

 

Funnily enough - exact opposite for me. I went from a 6 year old 120/140 mm RS Reba (old 32 mm stanchions) to a new 150 mm Fox 36 performance elite. Apart from a stiffness improvement, after 6 months I still have not been able to dial in the Fox to come close to being as good a performer or as comfortable. And the Fox is so much more susceptible to pedal bob! 

[Grease_Monkey]

Funnily enough - exact opposite for me. I went from a 6 year old 120/140 mm RS Reba (old 32 mm stanchions) to a new 150 mm Fox 36 performance elite. Apart from a stiffness improvement, after 6 months I still have not been able to dial in the Fox to come close to being as good a performer or as comfortable. And the Fox is so much more susceptible to pedal bob!

Do yourself a favour and rent a Shock Wiz for a weekend. Even if just to get in the right ball park. A propperly set up 36 performance elite (I am assuming Fit4 damper) is a brilliant fork.

[DieselnDust]

Do yourself a favour and rent a Shock Wiz for a weekend. Even if just to get in the right ball park. A propperly set up 36 performance elite (I am assuming Fit4 damper) is a brilliant fork.

 

 

The 36 is a great product but you'll chase your tail if you don't get the LSC and LSR set up correctly.

IMO a great can be terrible in the hands of someone who doesn't understand it. then if your riding weight changes by 3 Kg the fork settings can feel terrible again. Its very sensitive to the tune settings. I would not recomend it to someone who doesn't want to really understand whats going on inside that thing

[ChrisF]

The 36 is a great product but you'll chase your tail if you don't get the LSC and LSR set up correctly.

IMO a great can be terrible in the hands of someone who doesn't understand it. then if your riding weight changes by 3 Kg the fork settings can feel terrible again. Its very sensitive to the tune settings. I would not recomend it to someone who doesn't want to really understand whats going on inside that thing

Do you possibly have some links to videos for different types of videos ?

 

As you say, the best shock is only as good or as bad as its setup ...

 

EDIT ... There are many "general" videos out there. I think many use the wrong videos and go further down the rabit hole ...

Edited April 11, 2021 by ChrisF

[Jewbacca]

I think you guys are getting way too technical for the OP.

 

In reality, the 32/30 probably offers a more svelt ride on the gravel roads and paths because it isn't stiff.

 

The flex probably helps soak up some chatter. 

 

The OP isn't hitting drops, railing berms and clearing doubles or braking hard on super steep trails, so the stiffness of the big forks is lost anyway.

 

OP, if you feel you have played and dialled in one of the other, then what is it you are asking? If they feel the same, then does it matter which one you use?

 

Keep one, flog one and forget about it.

 

But get them both serviced properly first and re-test. A service can make a world of difference.

[PhilipV]

OK some feedback. Firstly thank you to everyone for some really valuable and interesting thoughts. Thoughts which stimulated the folkowing: Last night I thought I'd go back to basics and tweak the rebound and found something bih. When I used to ride the RS 30 I set it according to the RS App (Trailhead) which said to set Rebound at - 1 Click. I believed that due to being a bit heavier, the fork is already somewhat compressed thus needing less rebound.

I did the "bounce" test and found I could back off the rebound a lot. I had it at - 2 or 3 but now have it at probably - 7 or thereabouts. Different bike. Much more feel in the corners. The - 1 felt numb in comparison and I'm sure that's due to the fork taking a couple of hits but not being able to recover. I even rode a slightly higher Tyre pressure and am sure I can up it some more which will keep the tyre more consistent through the corners. Very chuffed.

Most people ride forks that are set too slow.

Sobiwont be surprised if you liked the faster fork. It will be more responsive.

 

And I don't agree with the RS Trailhead settings. At all.

 

Go back to the fundamentals.

Set the sag to be about 25%.

Then you set the rebound to feel fast, and play with it on a chattery bit of trail and then redo that trail with faster and slower rebound (change one variable at a time) and after every run ask yourself "was this similar, better or worse than the last run?" And then work yourself into finding your sweet spot.

 

And then start playing around with tyre pressures and do the same bracketing tests.

 

And remember, what works for one person won't be applicable to another, even if they weigh the same.

[DieselnDust]

sage advice Phillip