AMP - south africa's greatest ever female cyclist

[Shebeen]

56 minutes ago, babse said:

 

Mr Minn not a cyclist? 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Brett MTBer said:

Greg Minnaar.. no competition.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

hahaha yeah. I'm all for sport equality and I really enjoy the raw emotion of woman's cycling, but Greg Minnaar has to go down as our greatest ever?

Multiple world champ, world cup champ, most wins ever by a rider...... Still contracted by a top team turning 40....

I'd say she is definitely one of the top SA cyclists ever, but Greg is one of the best ever, from all countries.

 

36 minutes ago, FC&P2C said:

We can really be proud of Ashleigh but I am sorry you can't even mention her name in the same category as Greg Minnaar. 

 

23 minutes ago, dsw said:

Greg Minnaar... SA greatest cyclist?

Is downhill mountain biking even cycling?

Don't those okes use beer as a recovery drink?

I was expecting this, and yes he has been pretty good at going biking down a hill without falling off for a long time,

BUT

he has never even ridden the Argus. and his best time for the 94-7 is not even a sub 3.

http://results.racetec.co.za/results_by_person.aspx?PID=576812

 

[Nick]

1 minute ago, Shebeen said:

I was expecting this, and yes he has been pretty good at going biking down a hill without falling off for a long time,

BUT

he has never even ridden the Argus. and his best time for the 94-7 is not even a sub 3.

http://results.racetec.co.za/results_by_person.aspx?PID=576812

He did do Cape Epic in 2007.

[lechatnoir]

19 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

okee dokee, let's start here I'll get to mr minn next

 

Robbie Hunter's palmare's

You won't see it here but he did get a teammate to the top step at Paris too.

RH - https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/robert-hunter

he had a good year in 2007 - (that tour stage!) and ended up #31 on the rankings. in general over his career he probably averaged 150th and was only in the top 100 twice in 16 seasons.

 

 

going to AMP's palmares - https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/ashleigh-moolman

pretty consistently one of the top10 female riders

 

so it really comes down to the strength of the ladies' peleton vs the mens'? Obviously the depth of talent has been much deeper for the men, for a long time too. while it is closing, there is still a long way to go. For more data, i could go orange and compare Marianne Vos to,  i dunno Robert Gesink, Bauke Mollema, Tom Dumoulin or Joop Zoetemelk? Remembering she is easily the world's best female cyclist no matter how you measure?

There's no perfect way to put all achievements on a yardstick, but this does as good as any (EMerckx #1)

men's all time best has RH @ 574th spot

women's list AMP is #29 and could still go higher.

So that's the debate really, should a women in the top30 of all time be better celebrated than a guy around the top500? - ther's no way to tell, but I don't think it's clearcut (ps. impey actually nudges ahead of RH on this one, sitting at 457)

 

 

 

there, I fixed it for you. 

[dsw]

This is a very interesting topic although one can probably not really compare riders from different genders, eras and disciplines within the sport. Interesting to note though is that Robbie Hunter has apparently labelled Alan van Heerden ( The Idol) as the best cyclist this country has ever produced. 

 

 

[DieselnDust]

36 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

okee dokee, let's start here I'll get to mr minn next

 

Robbie Hunter's palmare's

You won't see it here but he did get a teammate to the top step at Paris too.

RH - https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/robert-hunter

he had a good year in 2007 - (that tour stage!) and ended up #31 on the rankings. in general over his career he probably averaged 150th and was only in the top 100 twice in 16 seasons.

 

 

going to AMP's palmares - https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/ashleigh-moolman

pretty consistently one of the top10 female riders

 

so it really comes down to the strength of the ladies' peleton vs the mens'? Obviously the depth of talent has been much deeper for the men, for a long time too. while it is closing, there is still a long way to go. For more data, i could go orange and compare Marianne Vos to,  i dunno Robert Gesink, Bauke Mollema, Tom Dumoulin or Joop Zoetemelk? Remembering she is easily the world's best female cyclist no matter how you measure?

There's no perfect way to put all achievements on a yardstick, but this does as good as any (EMerckx #1)

men's all time best has RH @ 574th spot

women's list AMP is #29 and could still go higher.

So that's the debate really, should a women in the top30 of all time be better celebrated than a guy around the top500? - ther's no way to tell, but I don't think it's clearcut (ps. impey actually nudges ahead of RH on this one, sitting at 457)

 

 

 

I see what you did there

not sure why her achievements needs to be justified. She's the best SA road cyclist ever.

 

 

[DieselnDust]

Just now, dsw said:

This is a very interesting topic although one can probably not really compare riders from different genders, eras and disciplines within the sport. Interesting to note though is that Robbie Hunter has apparently labelled Alan van Heerden ( The Idol) as the best cyclist this country has ever produced. 

 

 

with or without drugs?

[dsw]

17 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

with or without drugs?

I am not the right person to ask 

 

 

[Long Wheel Base]

39 minutes ago, lechatnoir said:

there, I fixed it for you. 

I have always thought that pound for pound, Vos is the GOAT cyclist. Male, Female, tar dirt what ever. 

[Shebeen]

25 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I see what you did there

not sure why her achievements needs to be justified. She's the best SA road cyclist ever.

 

 

You can't compare the two really as apples and apples. On many metrics Greg's achievements would be ahead, he's been one of the best downhiller's for a very long time - but it's a small niche, way smaller than even women's pro road cycling.

What they do have in common is that neither have really gained recognition for their achievements. that's beyond doubt.

 

[Eldron]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

okee dokee

so it really comes down to the strength of the ladies' peleton vs the mens'? Obviously the depth of talent has been much deeper for the men, for a long time too. while it is closing, there is still a long way to go. For more data, i could go orange and compare Marianne Vos to,  i dunno Robert Gesink, Bauke Mollema, Tom Dumoulin or Joop Zoetemelk? Remembering she is easily the world's best female cyclist no matter how you measure?

There's no perfect way to put all achievements on a yardstick, but this does as good as any (EMerckx #1)

men's all time best has RH @ 574th spot

women's list AMP is #29 and could still go higher.

So that's the debate really, should a women in the top30 of all time be better celebrated than a guy around the top500? - ther's no way to tell, but I don't think it's clearcut (ps. impey actually nudges ahead of RH on this one, sitting at 457)

 

 

 

The yardstick is flexible of course - best rider can be best UCI ranking, best single achievment, best GC rider, best classics etc.

The unmeasurable difference between the level of female versus male cycling makes it even more flexible.

Me - I reckon Robbie 3 GT victories (especially the TdF victory) puts him ahead of Ashleigh.

Gotta love opinions ????

 

[Eldron]

6 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

You can't compare the two really as apples and apples. On many metrics Greg's achievements would be ahead, he's been one of the best downhiller's for a very long time - but it's a small niche, way smaller than even women's pro road cycling.

What they do have in common is that neither have really gained recognition for their achievements. that's beyond doubt.

 

There are about half as many male DH riders currently ranked on the UCI as female road riders.

That said - Greg isn't one of the best. He is the best. Ever. 

Greg has now won 22 World Cup downhill races, more than any other Elite Men’s downhill racer in history. He also has three overall World Cup titles. When you combine that with his World Championship record of three gold medals, four silver medals, and three bronze medals, you can see why many people are calling Minnaar the “GOAT” these days. (See the March 2021 issue of Mountain Bike Action  to see the one downhill racer, Nicolas Vouilloz, who can challenge that claim.)

It may be a smaller pond but the sheer quality of those results trump any and all cyclists in SA....in my opinion.

[FootballingCyclist]

is Dh even really cycling when they don't even actually pedal? Can't it just be called Rolling or something????

 

????‍♂️

Edited July 12, 2021 by FootballingCyclist

[TNT1]

30 minutes ago, Eldron said:

 

Me - I reckon Robbie 3 GT victories

 

Not just 3 stage wins, but a stage win in each of the three grand tours. That's not a feat accomplished by many. (sure, you could asterisk his TTT win at the Giro, I wouldn't though.)

[Eldron]

1 minute ago, TNT1 said:

Not just 3 stage wins, but a stage win in each of the three grand tours. That's not a feat accomplished by many. (sure, you could asterisk his TTT win at the Giro, I wouldn't though.)

Given that I am quite a big Robbie fan I will make a completely non emotional decision and leave the asterisk off the Giro win ????

[DieselnDust]

Don't we count Chris Froome....

 

 

[Maniax]

big fan of Ashley