How to get more cyclists at Road races?

[Headshot]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

back in the day when i was a wee whippersnapper, the Argus was a huge date in the calendar. second sunday of march. 

every weekend from mid jan there was a PPA funride. most of them based in the south peninsula. They mostly ran from constantia village/false bay rugby club/that science school near uitsig and had cool names like the Cape cobra, rollercoaster, three passes. Many would start with the climb straight up constantia nek, that was the first route to disappear. There was the odd boland one too, the medallion mushrooms in stellenbosch comes to mind.

All run by rotary/lions and essentially charity events. pretty sure the traffic help was donated too.

 

how could you do that again? 

just impossible, things have changed. People are moaning about having to do the same route over and over again, try find another route that works with costs involved and go for it.

I have vivid memories of that first climb - 300 riders blocking the road as we crawled up to the Nek. Those were the days 🙂 

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

What 🙂 Must be quite an old eBike... Have you noticed that almost all current eBikes on sale are trail/enduro bikes with upwards of 140mm travel forks and 130 -160mm of rear wheel travel. That makes them way better descenders than frisky 100mm marathon bikes, would you not agree?

Those forks and brakes and tyres are to compensate for the added weight. I can tell you right now on a 120kg Honda CRF with 3000mm suspension up front and much better brakes and tyres. You need to really let it hang out to keep up with a pro on an XC bike on a tight and twisty rocky descent. Anyone who has ridden lead motorbike when there is proper singletrack knows that you need to build a slight gap before it gets too tight/technical. The added weight really does hamper performance so they are compensating for that weight by upping the suspension and brakes. Also bear in mind your average e-bike rider is probably not the 55kg elite athlete, so added brakes and suspension is usually a good idea anyway...

[The Ouzo]

@Frosty , did you have a shorter route this weekend ? what was participation like ?

I have a feeling there is a gap being opened up, a handful of riders wanting longer events (150km and more), and then the majority that are looking for events around the 60-70km mark. 100km events therefore getting less interest. And this for various reasons as listed in this thread, time, zwift, other commitments, instant gratification etc.

[Headshot]

8 minutes ago, dave303e said:

Those forks and brakes and tyres are to compensate for the added weight. I can tell you right now on a 120kg Honda CRF with 3000mm suspension up front and much better brakes and tyres. You need to really let it hang out to keep up with a pro on an XC bike on a tight and twisty rocky descent. Anyone who has ridden lead motorbike when there is proper singletrack knows that you need to build a slight gap before it gets too tight/technical. The added weight really does hamper performance so they are compensating for that weight by upping the suspension and brakes. Also bear in mind your average e-bike rider is probably not the 55kg elite athlete, so added brakes and suspension is usually a good idea anyway...

No man you're missing my point - an eBike weighs in at 25kg or less anyway so its still way more nimble than a heavy moto.

The fact that eBikes are enduro/trail bikes has nothing to do with their additional weight and all to do with their ability to ferry the rider to the top with proper amounts of travel and braking available at no penalty. The point is that they are mostly made for descending with more comfort safety and fun on tap than  a marathon bike. Many of the eBikers come off marathon bikes and now happily descend faster and more safely because they suddenly have decent tyres and suspension.

BTW, have you seen the video of Gee Atherton beating a top moto rider down Fort william on his 26er DH bike? 

[Shebeen]

2 hours ago, Skubarra said:

Yes I agree those days are gone forever... In the WC If you are a casual rider into road cycling join a club and do the club rides, serves the same purpose as a funride if you are not racing for time anyway. For the more serious riders there are still enough races to do between the WP League rides & the few funrides that survived until now.

the other thing I meant to say was that I don't think anyone else ever did funrides like we did - it's a direct answer to the OP.

racing in europe is all serious. you get into your categories and that's your group, rolling road closures if anything. none of this mass start stuff. if you're serious about cycling and doing it as your main sport then you can still find races to do. if you're not serious then why do you need a race?

[Frosty]

27 minutes ago, The Ouzo said:

@Frosty , did you have a shorter route this weekend ? what was participation like ?

I have a feeling there is a gap being opened up, a handful of riders wanting longer events (150km and more), and then the majority that are looking for events around the 60-70km mark. 100km events therefore getting less interest. And this for various reasons as listed in this thread, time, zwift, other commitments, instant gratification etc.

We had three distances:
57km, 102km and 108km.

57km - open groups
102km - Vets 50+, all licensed Women, and open groups
108km - Elite, U23, Juniors and Vets 30-49

We have had various distances over the years, from 10km, 20Km, 40Km, 60km, 80km, 100km, 110km, 125km, 140km and 160km over the 16 years I’ve been involved.

[dave303e]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

No man you're missing my point - an eBike weighs in at 25kg or less anyway so its still way more nimble than a heavy moto.

The fact that eBikes are enduro/trail bikes has nothing to do with their additional weight and all to do with their ability to ferry the rider to the top with proper amounts of travel and braking available at no penalty. The point is that they are mostly made for descending with more comfort safety and fun on tap than  a marathon bike. Many of the eBikers come off marathon bikes and now happily descend faster and more safely because they suddenly have decent tyres and suspension.

BTW, have you seen the video of Gee Atherton beating a top moto rider down Fort william on his 26er DH bike? 

I get your point to an extent, but the reality is that the evolution of e-bikes has had to move towards the dh/enduro setups and a lot of that is because of weight and ease of sourcing existing products. Rims needed to be stronger for the weight so you up the rim and tyre widths/weight. Then you have added unsprung weight so you go to an enduro fork for a bit more beef/less flex etc. Enduro forks are usually 140-160mm so it is cheaper to source an already available enduro option and so the knock on effect goes. An e-bike engineer also doesn't care about adding extra weight in wheels and suspension because you have the motor to power them back up.

I have seen that video, it was quite a long time ago though. Pretty pointless comparison to be honest. I seem to remember above the tree line in the open Knight was ahead because he could actually use the engine. Once it got technical in the forests it was game over. Final nail in the coffin was the motorbike being too heavy for the wooden berm/wall rides so he had to avoid them while Atherton flew through. But it is even more pointless because that motorbike bike has won races like Erzberg Rodeo, no DH bike would even qualify in the top 500 to even be allowed start the harescramble, even if it did, no human on earth would ride a downhill bike up the first hills, you would have to carry it up. It doesn't mean a DH bike is a POS, it just means it was not designed for that type of racing, the same way an enduro motorbike was not designed for Fort William DH...

Horses for courses. 

[Headshot]

3 minutes ago, dave303e said:

I get your point to an extent, but the reality is that the evolution of e-bikes has had to move towards the dh/enduro setups and a lot of that is because of weight and ease of sourcing existing products. Rims needed to be stronger for the weight so you up the rim and tyre widths/weight. Then you have added unsprung weight so you go to an enduro fork for a bit more beef/less flex etc. Enduro forks are usually 140-160mm so it is cheaper to source an already available enduro option and so the knock on effect goes. An e-bike engineer also doesn't care about adding extra weight in wheels and suspension because you have the motor to power them back up.

I have seen that video, it was quite a long time ago though. Pretty pointless comparison to be honest. I seem to remember above the tree line in the open Knight was ahead because he could actually use the engine. Once it got technical in the forests it was game over. Final nail in the coffin was the motorbike being too heavy for the wooden berm/wall rides so he had to avoid them while Atherton flew through. But it is even more pointless because that motorbike bike has won races like Erzberg Rodeo, no DH bike would even qualify in the top 500 to even be allowed start the harescramble, even if it did, no human on earth would ride a downhill bike up the first hills, you would have to carry it up. It doesn't mean a DH bike is a POS, it just means it was not designed for that type of racing, the same way an enduro motorbike was not designed for Fort William DH...

Horses for courses. 

Me on my enduro bike or even a lighter XC bike weigh more than the combined weight of many people I see on their eBikes. 

If eBike manufacturers wanted they could have started with XC forks and short travel - they didn't because its pointless where you can ride the extra weight up and have a blast on the way down, which is what most of the world want to do on their bikes...

[stringbean]

On 10/31/2022 at 2:11 PM, Headshot said:

I'm sure eBikers are doing stage events but it doesn't seem to be helping the numbers by the sound of it. 

It’s become a catch 22.I understand the organisers trying to increase numbers so invite the ebikes.I found myself in this predicament at the durbie dash Mtb.

been the ou toppie my fitness wasn’t at the level to comfortably ride the long route so entered the 45km(52km).First impression was “”hell there are a lot of young guys on ebikes with heart conditions “.Now I don’t mind them been there but when racetec just throws all the results together of riders and ebikers that just pisses me off to the point you won’t see me there again.So yes they open up to ebikes,but the numbers don’t necessarily increase.

[CyclingAddict]

They should call it a race for the top 5%, for the rest of us it's a timed event to see if our training is working or failing.... have a few more waterpoints, and better safety.

Goodiebags are a waste, get rid of them, and I agree with quite a few here about having to collect race numbers before the event.... we have technology, send it to my phone !

[The Ouzo]

8 minutes ago, CyclingAddict said:

have a few more waterpoints,

I have honestly never done a race where I found I needed more water points than they had. Normally there are to many waterpoints.

 

Toilets and dustbin are a different story though, never enough.

 

As much as I like the traditional medal they can probably go and be replaced by something a little more useful, like Frosty's ride did this weekend with a chaincheck tool.

Maybe a series of tools, like a collectable set. Once you've completed 5 events you have a complete matching set.

[Ozzie NL]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:39 PM, Sandro said:

As far as I can tell the only way to get people to enter more road races is to get more people to actually ride on the road. In order to do a race event you need to train and as you said, the roads are a disaster and unsafe. I recently bought a road bike again after 7 years after taking up MTB but I already know the only time it will be used is in the Cradle, on a trainer and events like 947.  Its a pity because there were some really good road events like the Telkom Satellite Challenge, Race for victory, Dome 2 dome, Ride for sight, Bakwena Challenge etc. that were well worth doing in my opinion. Not sure which of those are even around still or what they're like now.

Dome 2 dome ... giving your age away on that one oomie!!!!

[DieselnDust]

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/q3-revenue-round-up-falling-consumer-interest-drop-in-sales-and-tough-decisions.html

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:41 PM, Mongoose! said:

When I started to cycle (many years ago) we had a race every Saturday. Schools / churches local businesses hosted events for marketing purposes or fund raising.

Entries were cheap and bike shops had a table with entry forms at their entrances.

And then all of the sudden something changed.

A new partner joined the party...

Now it was not that easy / cost effective to host a small event.

Enforced by "law" - and all sports received such "partner" / aka governing body - saw it in tennis as well...

So this thread is 4 pages long and not one finger to C S A yet ? 😛

 

 

i don't think you know what you need to do to host a 'small event ie between 200 - 2000 participants. there are over 10 regulatory acts you need to comply with - go and read up what event organiser's need to adhere to just to submit an application to the events office. a sports governing body has no say whether the event is going to take place or not. BUT it is a good idea to have their support.

[DieselnDust]

12 hours ago, City Cycling Athletic Club said:

i don't think you know what you need to do to host a 'small event ie between 200 - 2000 participants. there are over 10 regulatory acts you need to comply with - go and read up what event organiser's need to adhere to just to submit an application to the events office. a sports governing body has no say whether the event is going to take place or not. BUT it is a good idea to have their support.

This is a big risk to the sports sustainability. Something has to be done about because regulating sports and recreation out of existence is the end state. Alan Winde has been going on about his new Mobility Minister. This person sound s like a key stkeholder as well as the ministerfor sports and recreation in the WC. If something doesn't change we're just delaying the inevitable

[Frosty]

I don't believe the SASREA requirements are the reasons for the decline in numbers. These regulations have been around for many years, and numbers were much higher than now. Some of the regulations are there for a reason, namely safety. All races should comply with the minimum requirement for safety at races, both on the road and off it.

I thought everything on the road could be applied to mountain bike, but it's not as simple as that, at least until we (my club) organised a MTB event in addition to the road event. 

Potholes should not be the responsibility of the race organiser to fix/fill, this is the provincial government and the municipalities responsibility. We do it because safety is important, and riders shouldn't have to be pointing out holes. Filling these costs money, and we budget for this in the race entry.