the unofficial Cape Epic 2024 thread

[Donovan Le Cok]

3 hours ago, Irvin85 said:

Please enlighten me then with your insider knowledge? Also I am not talking about south African riders, talking about UCI XCO and downhill riders. But what do they then earn if what I could find is badly skewed?  

If you don't know who Action Man is you probably shouldn't be commenting on this...

[Action_Man]

On 3/5/2024 at 4:03 PM, Irvin85 said:

Did a bit of searching on Pro mtbers salary ranges, seems the majority of the field will earn anything between $150K -  $300k a year, with your stars like Nino earning in excess of $1mil sponsorships included.  I think if there was proper price money to be won at the Epic we might see a much larger elite field. 

Total price purse of $5mil with the winning teams walking away with $1mil. 

Surely that would be something the pro's would really consider. 

 

5 hours ago, Irvin85 said:

Please enlighten me then with your insider knowledge? Also I am not talking about south African riders, talking about UCI XCO and downhill riders. But what do they then earn if what I could find is badly skewed?  

You said "Did a bit of searching on Pro mtbers salary ranges, seems the majority of the field will earn anything between $150K -  $300k a year".

I'm not sure where you found those figures, and I can assure you both I and the riders wish they were true! Cyclists are some of the most grossly underpaid sportsmen & women in professional sports. 

I can't comment on DHI because I don't know the riders or their agents well enough to pass an opinion.

On XCO, XCM or even road for that matter, I'm happy to weigh in because I have been in the sport for many years and I do know what I'm talking about. I'm at the events, I'm friends with a number of the riders, I speak to team owners, & I speak to the rider's management agents on a regular basis.

There are a small handful of male riders in XCO who get paid north of $150k per year, certainly none who aren't regularly finishing inside the top 10 with occasional podiums. Further back than 10th and you're looking at $75k-$100k, falling off rapidly from that outside of the top 30 - 40.

The women get paid less than the men. 

In XCO there are maximum 5 men & 3 women who earn $300k plus when including endorsements from the likes of Redbull, etc. 

Then right at the top you get someone like Nino who is earning north of $1million. 

CXM riders are paid far less, there is far less money in XCM than XCO, the same reason XCO riders get paid less money than the road cyclists - there's less money in XCO than there is in road cycling. 

Road rider's salaries also have a lot more depth because there is teamwork involved and the teams need good domestiques to form a strong team. 

In XCO that is not the case, you have winners / podium finishers, then everyone else who is just filling up the numbers. If one is outside of the top 25-30 places in XCO, you'd be lucky to earn $40k per year. Outside of top 40, you're falling off quickly after that. There are many riders racing at World Cups who are having to work at least part time jobs or still live with their parents into their mid to late 20's in order to pursue their racing dreams. 

XCM is even worse, far worse in fact. If you go look at a startlist of an XCM World Championships you will see many riders you've never even heard of, good riders, riders who finish in the top 20 or even top 10 at a World Championship. Why do you think that is? Their federations manage to scrape together some funding to sent them there, but they certainly can't afford to come do an event like the Cape Epic, much as they would love to. It's too expensive for their sponsors or for their federations to fund, so they don't come.

Back to XCO, in my opinion, Discovery/Warner bro's needs to improve on coverage slightly further back in the XCO races to give the riders in at least 10th - 20th or even up to 30th position a bit more coverage throughout the race, even if it's a split screen image every now and then. It's the only way to encourage more sponsorship depth and feasibility for athletes trying to make it in the sport. 

The reality is that all +- 80 men and women who line up on a World Cup XCO start line are phenomenal athletes in the top small percentile of people in the world, both physiologically & psychologically. They all deserve to earn a decent wage and get a bit of coverage for what they put themselves through and the show they provide for the spectators, let alone the risks they take while redlining it down technical terrain. 

 

[Jewbacca]

2 hours ago, Donovan Le Cok said:

If you don't know who Action Man is you probably shouldn't be commenting on this...

Easy for you to be an aggressive keyboard warrior hiding behind your hub name...........  

[Donovan Le Cok]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Easy for you to be an aggressive keyboard warrior hiding behind your hub name...........  

They'll never find me!

[J Wakefield]

Maybe if Matt Beers wins $5M for winning Epic he can back pay me for coaching fees since 2005. 
For now I’m happy with the yellow jerseys 

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, J Wakefield said:

Maybe if Matt Beers wins $5M for winning Epic he can back pay me for coaching fees since 2005. 
For now I’m happy with the yellow jerseys 

If Matt won $5million he’d move out from down the road from me to maybe like ………CantstandCher.

 

ps : do you take payment in Argust loyalty jerseys…?

#vramanet

[DJuice]

Pinkbike’s survey on salaries.

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tags/pinkbike-state-of-the-sport-survey/
 

 

[Shebeen]

18 hours ago, Action_Man said:

You said "Did a bit of searching on Pro mtbers salary ranges, seems the majority of the field will earn anything between $150K -  $300k a year".

I'm not sure where you found those figures, and I can assure you both I and the riders wish they were true! Cyclists are some of the most grossly underpaid sportsmen & women in professional sports. 

I can't comment on DHI because I don't know the riders or their agents well enough to pass an opinion.

On XCO, XCM or even road for that matter, I'm happy to weigh in because I have been in the sport for many years and I do know what I'm talking about. I'm at the events, I'm friends with a number of the riders, I speak to team owners, & I speak to the rider's management agents on a regular basis.

There are a small handful of male riders in XCO who get paid north of $150k per year, certainly none who aren't regularly finishing inside the top 10 with occasional podiums. Further back than 10th and you're looking at $75k-$100k, falling off rapidly from that outside of the top 30 - 40.

The women get paid less than the men. 

In XCO there are maximum 5 men & 3 women who earn $300k plus when including endorsements from the likes of Redbull, etc. 

Then right at the top you get someone like Nino who is earning north of $1million. 

CXM riders are paid far less, there is far less money in XCM than XCO, the same reason XCO riders get paid less money than the road cyclists - there's less money in XCO than there is in road cycling. 

Road rider's salaries also have a lot more depth because there is teamwork involved and the teams need good domestiques to form a strong team. 

In XCO that is not the case, you have winners / podium finishers, then everyone else who is just filling up the numbers. If one is outside of the top 25-30 places in XCO, you'd be lucky to earn $40k per year. Outside of top 40, you're falling off quickly after that. There are many riders racing at World Cups who are having to work at least part time jobs or still live with their parents into their mid to late 20's in order to pursue their racing dreams. 

XCM is even worse, far worse in fact. If you go look at a startlist of an XCM World Championships you will see many riders you've never even heard of, good riders, riders who finish in the top 20 or even top 10 at a World Championship. Why do you think that is? Their federations manage to scrape together some funding to sent them there, but they certainly can't afford to come do an event like the Cape Epic, much as they would love to. It's too expensive for their sponsors or for their federations to fund, so they don't come.

Back to XCO, in my opinion, Discovery/Warner bro's needs to improve on coverage slightly further back in the XCO races to give the riders in at least 10th - 20th or even up to 30th position a bit more coverage throughout the race, even if it's a split screen image every now and then. It's the only way to encourage more sponsorship depth and feasibility for athletes trying to make it in the sport. 

The reality is that all +- 80 men and women who line up on a World Cup XCO start line are phenomenal athletes in the top small percentile of people in the world, both physiologically & psychologically. They all deserve to earn a decent wage and get a bit of coverage for what they put themselves through and the show they provide for the spectators, let alone the risks they take while redlining it down technical terrain. 

 

I'm clearly out the loop not knowing exactly who you are, but can see you are deeply involved in the sport. Thanks for your insights, experience and hard stats.

Agreed on XCO coverage, once lap2 is done you basically see the top 3 for 75% of the time, 4-10 for 20% of the time and 5% for the rest or someone else crashing. It gets boring quickly if there isn't a tussle, but even more importantly so often a rider "comes out of nowhere" when they've actually been just off the leading pack the whole time but off the coverage.

 

This thread is better for it (even if it's further confirmation how flippen hard this sport is).

 

 

[W@nted]

19 hours ago, J Wakefield said:

Maybe if Matt Beers wins $5M for winning Epic he can back pay me for coaching fees since 2005. 
For now I’m happy with the yellow jerseys 

I hope Matt goes well in the Epic. For some reason though, I want him to beat Mr Keegan Swenson at the lifetime grand prix events! That would be Epic...

[Rowl]

https://velo.outsideonline.com/mountain/mountain-racing/for-these-athletes-the-cape-epic-is-the-perfect-kickoff-to-the-life-time-grand-prix/

[Shebeen]

good luck for all those riding, any prominent racers from the Hublic?

[Danger Dassie]

“From a crazy idea in an adventurous young man’s mind to the world’s most prestigious mountain bike stage race, the Absa Cape Epic celebrates its 20^thedition this month. We tracked down the man that founded the race, Kevin Vermaak, and asked him a few burning questions about the race’s past – and its future…...”

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/where-to-now-for-absa-cape-epic-founder-kevin-vermaak/

['Dale]

18 hours ago, Danger Dassie said:

“From a crazy idea in an adventurous young man’s mind to the world’s most prestigious mountain bike stage race, the Absa Cape Epic celebrates its 20^thedition this month. We tracked down the man that founded the race, Kevin Vermaak, and asked him a few burning questions about the race’s past – and its future…...”

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/where-to-now-for-absa-cape-epic-founder-kevin-vermaak/

Kevin’s restraint-of-trade lapses in a few months. I suspect that he will come up with another product. Gonna be an interesting space to watch.
 

[Shebeen]

18 hours ago, Danger Dassie said:

“From a crazy idea in an adventurous young man’s mind to the world’s most prestigious mountain bike stage race, the Absa Cape Epic celebrates its 20^thedition this month. We tracked down the man that founded the race, Kevin Vermaak, and asked him a few burning questions about the race’s past – and its future…...”

https://www.treadmtb.co.za/where-to-now-for-absa-cape-epic-founder-kevin-vermaak/

Great story. As much as I was one of those moaning about the cost and commercialisation of the Epic at the time, KV kickstarted an industry. Not mentioned here, but I know the IDC took on funding commitments before ABSA came in and it could wash it's own face - incredible investment if you think what the event has given back to RSA inc.

Very interesting to see where he goes next. Maybe reading too much into it but the door for him to setup a rival series with staff he trusts seems open.

[Jewbacca]

6 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Great story. As much as I was one of those moaning about the cost and commercialisation of the Epic at the time, KV kickstarted an industry. Not mentioned here, but I know the IDC took on funding commitments before ABSA came in and it could wash it's own face - incredible investment if you think what the event has given back to RSA inc.

Very interesting to see where he goes next. Maybe reading too much into it but the door for him to setup a rival series with staff he trusts seems open.

I don't think there is enough traction behind stage racing anymore to create something this big, regardless of who is behind it.

The race now has a legacy, which is a HUGE part in land access, sponsor willingness, participation buy in and Pro Team investment.

Much like the Two Oceans, CTCT and Peninsula Marathon, without the legacy and continued support, no way do you get road closures like they get.

One could create a business model and event but would get laughed out of the city offices if you asked for the such comprehensive shut down.

I'd be happy to be wrong, but without legacy, I can't see another new event getting close to rivalling an existing 'big one' in the current market.

[DieselnDust]

8 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Great story. As much as I was one of those moaning about the cost and commercialisation of the Epic at the time, KV kickstarted an industry. Not mentioned here, but I know the IDC took on funding commitments before ABSA came in and it could wash it's own face - incredible investment if you think what the event has given back to RSA inc.

Very interesting to see where he goes next. Maybe reading too much into it but the door for him to setup a rival series with staff he trusts seems open.

I was surprised to read of a mass exodus in 2023. Those people would undoubtedly have moved onto better things but it raises a question mark over the long term sustainability of the event. Maybe Ironman has the formula totally debugged but it would be lekker to have a rival series emerge that starts to offer something exciting and affordable. The epic series isn’t going to get more popular or grow any further in a declining economy when cost of participation skyrockets (entry, services, bike, riding gear, bike maintenance etc)