SRAM launch new powerful Maven brakes

[NotSoBigBen]

9 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Boling water can hurt so stay away from that one.

 

Mineral oil , bad for the system and oil. Flush asap but you still have some decent working service out of the brakes. 

 

Dot , very bad. Because it absorbs water and if it has already then the steam will rise to the top ( your lever ) because it has a boiling point so much lower than the dot and suddenly there will be jack out of your lever , as in nothing. 

 

The above scenarios are super hard to create , even if your brake oil is more than 10 years old. SO don't stress about it too much , regular maintenance on a modern system will give heaps of reliability and decent performance be it dot or mineral based.  

Hence my question, I have more than one brake set that has not been bled since the year dot and still work fine. Bearing in mind I only have from the 'other' manufacturer and notwithstanding the fact I clearly don't stress them to that point! 

[dave303e]

So on most of the motorbikes you always have a heat insulator between the pad and the brake caliper/piston. I have boiled far to many rear brakes on offroad motorbikes. It is one of the worst thing to happen when you really need your breaks and they just fade or the pedal/lever loses all pressure. MTB calipers never have that insulator so I am always weary. My concern with it is if you need to bleed brakes in a hurry and can't find Shimano or another good mineral oil and all of a sudden without knowing it you are putting in an oil that boils at 2/3rds of the manufacturers oils boiling point and then expecting it to perform. Motorex is one of the higher boiling point mineral oils, it boils 120dec C hotter than the Magura mineral oil. 

You put in any DOT5,1 and you know the minimum boiling point is exactly the same through any brand you can get your hands on in a rush. Also you can walk into midas/autozone/mica/chamberlains and get brake fluid. As soon as you need mineral oil for brakes you are going to get torn a fresh one by a bicycle or motorbike specialty brand and supplier. Shimano mineral oil is nearly R140/liter more expensive than a good motul dot 5,1 fluid.

[BaGearA]

38 minutes ago, NotSoBigBen said:

Hence my question, I have more than one brake set that has not been bled since the year dot and still work fine. Bearing in mind I only have from the 'other' manufacturer and notwithstanding the fact I clearly don't stress them to that point! 

Even if your bike stands dead still 

 

I would still flush the brakes once a year , maybe that's total overkill but I do my own maintenance and I find it calming.

 

I also have never had issues relating to the fluid itself while riding. 

 

What headshot says about the sram brakes peeling their paint , I have also unfortunately seen that and the guide piston story aswell. Atleast its been recognized and fixed 

[Headshot]

35 minutes ago, dave303e said:

So on most of the motorbikes you always have a heat insulator between the pad and the brake caliper/piston. I have boiled far to many rear brakes on offroad motorbikes. It is one of the worst thing to happen when you really need your breaks and they just fade or the pedal/lever loses all pressure. MTB calipers never have that insulator so I am always weary. My concern with it is if you need to bleed brakes in a hurry and can't find Shimano or another good mineral oil and all of a sudden without knowing it you are putting in an oil that boils at 2/3rds of the manufacturers oils boiling point and then expecting it to perform. Motorex is one of the higher boiling point mineral oils, it boils 120dec C hotter than the Magura mineral oil. 

You put in any DOT5,1 and you know the minimum boiling point is exactly the same through any brand you can get your hands on in a rush. Also you can walk into midas/autozone/mica/chamberlains and get brake fluid. As soon as you need mineral oil for brakes you are going to get torn a fresh one by a bicycle or motorbike specialty brand and supplier. Shimano mineral oil is nearly R140/liter more expensive than a good motul dot 5,1 fluid.

I think you're overthinking it on the MTB side. I use some french hydraulic mineral oil in my Shimano's with no noticeable side effects - just good braking and no fade.  I do abuse my back brake a bit. You can click on takealot and order some of the automotive quality mineral oil at under R200 p/l and it will be with you in 3 days. 

 

Sorry its now R202.00 https://www.takealot.com/total-lhm-plus-hydraulic-mineral-liquid-1l/PLID72926639?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7zwsNx_Klka_opoQabXyCtkgqNzBF1zwPXdxCZc4jHLmt5o9ap9mswaAonhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Edited February 23 by Headshot

[The Ouzo]

19 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I think you're overthinking it on the MTB side. I use some french hydraulic mineral oil in my Shimano's with no noticeable side effects - just good braking and no fade.  I do abuse my back brake a bit. You can click on takealot and order some of the automotive quality mineral oil at under R200 p/l and it will be with you in 3 days. 

 

Sorry its now R202.00 https://www.takealot.com/total-lhm-plus-hydraulic-mineral-liquid-1l/PLID72926639?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7zwsNx_Klka_opoQabXyCtkgqNzBF1zwPXdxCZc4jHLmt5o9ap9mswaAonhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

agreed for 99% of use cases, heck Seth from Berm Peak is still running baby oil in one of his bikes, most people wont overheat the brake fluid on their bicycles.

[Steady Spin]

Not to be that guy but.... 

I'll stick to my Hope Tech 3 V4s.

- 10 years old and not a single issue.
- Bled them once in 10 years because I figured it was time. 
- Stops with excellent modulation and power.
- Never felt like they faded on me. 
- Looks amazing with the machined surfaces
 

[dave303e]

30 minutes ago, Headshot said:

I think you're overthinking it on the MTB side. I use some french hydraulic mineral oil in my Shimano's with no noticeable side effects - just good braking and no fade.  I do abuse my back brake a bit. You can click on takealot and order some of the automotive quality mineral oil at under R200 p/l and it will be with you in 3 days. 

 

Sorry its now R202.00 https://www.takealot.com/total-lhm-plus-hydraulic-mineral-liquid-1l/PLID72926639?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoeGuBhCBARIsAGfKY7zwsNx_Klka_opoQabXyCtkgqNzBF1zwPXdxCZc4jHLmt5o9ap9mswaAonhEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

You ever lost half your breaking capacity 180km into a 400km national offroad motorcycle race on a 2t with relatively no engine braking available... I have, that is why I am particular about what goes into my brakes.

We squeezed 4 of our bikes into a van with all kit and camping gear to go to the race and when we arrived I realised my brakes were super spongey. Could only get DOT3 brake fluid at the local town nearest the race and because we were so tight on space no one brought any. That fluid boiled after a few hours and it was a super fun day out for the rest of the day.

So I have my reasons, it is not a fun lesson to learn the hard way.

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, NotSoBigBen said:

Genuine question @DieselnDust and other techies, other than maybe downhillers, extreme riders and proper XC riders, should any of us average Joe riders concern ourselves with boiling 

 

 

if you weigh more than 90kg and like the downs more than the ups and are very competent so brakes late and hard then I would factor it in. 
 

if you ride the brakes a lot then maybe it should of concern but the main factor is speed and the energy required to stop

[Headshot]

14 minutes ago, dave303e said:

You ever lost half your breaking capacity 180km into a 400km national offroad motorcycle race on a 2t with relatively no engine braking available... I have, that is why I am particular about what goes into my brakes.

We squeezed 4 of our bikes into a van with all kit and camping gear to go to the race and when we arrived I realised my brakes were super spongey. Could only get DOT3 brake fluid at the local town nearest the race and because we were so tight on space no one brought any. That fluid boiled after a few hours and it was a super fun day out for the rest of the day.

So I have my reasons, it is not a fun lesson to learn the hard way.

No I haven't. I have ridden a fastish 2s bike on the road though and I shudder to think what brake failure would be like.  Which is why I referred to "MTB" brakes of which I have extensive experience over the last 30 years.  They are not the same. 

[DieselnDust]

5 hours ago, Headshot said:

No I haven't. I have ridden a fastish 2s bike on the road though and I shudder to think what brake failure would be like.  Which is why I referred to "MTB" brakes of which I have extensive experience over the last 30 years.  They are not the same. 

No but I will tell you this 

in 2008 cape epic day 3 stage 2 coming down the gamkaberg toward calitzdorp spa my team is had a bit of brake failure. He’s XT’s brake fluid boiled. He then only had the fronts. Had to get a walk parts of that descent. 
we don’t often experience that but the Hope brake systems didn’t have any issues. Magura and Shimano struggled. Both were mineral oil while Hope was DoT.

[MORNE]

17 hours ago, BaGearA said:

Boling water can hurt so stay away from that one.

 

Mineral oil , bad for the system and oil. Flush asap but you still have some decent working service out of the brakes. 

 

Dot , very bad. Because it absorbs water and if it has already then the steam will rise to the top ( your lever ) because it has a boiling point so much lower than the dot and suddenly there will be jack out of your lever , as in nothing. 

 

The above scenarios are super hard to create , even if your brake oil is more than 10 years old. SO don't stress about it too much , regular maintenance on a modern system will give heaps of reliability and decent performance be it dot or mineral based.  

Plus ceramic pistons are now common, which also help isolate heat to the rotor/pad interface. I was breaking in a new set of pads a while back and after a few loops of riding, braking hard, letting off, rinse repeat i squirted some of my water on the pads and it sizzled and steamed like I was frying eggs lol. I thought this was the perfect opportunity to feel how hot the calliper gets and it was barely noticable.

anyway, this is now a few years old already, but i keep referring back to this as it was a substantial lab test. There were not a lot of DOT filled systems at the top of the pile when it came to pure braking power. 

https://enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy/

 

Also, objectively the most powerful bicycle brakes you can buy (Trickstuff) uses Bionol now (sunflower oil lol) as fluid. Need to try some, apparently it can be used in any mineral oil system: if the color of the bottle hints at the color of the oil, then we know what sram now uses in their ‘mineral oil’ brakes.

“Hydraulic disc brakes typically use either mineral oil or DOT fluid, but the Maxima brakes are filled with something a little different – sunflower oil, or Bionol to be more specific. Created by Danico, the initial boiling point of Bionol is said to be 300-degrees Celcius, which is higher than mineral oil and DOT 5.1. It's not only for Trickstuff brakes, though; Bionol will also work in any mineral-oil operated brake”

 

[DieselnDust]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:32 PM, BaGearA said:

Boling water can hurt so stay away from that one.

 

Mineral oil , bad for the system and oil. Flush asap but you still have some decent working service out of the brakes. 

 

Dot , very bad. Because it absorbs water and if it has already then the steam will rise to the top ( your lever ) because it has a boiling point so much lower than the dot and suddenly there will be jack out of your lever , as in nothing. 

 

The above scenarios are super hard to create , even if your brake oil is more than 10 years old. SO don't stress about it too much , regular maintenance on a modern system will give heaps of reliability and decent performance be it dot or mineral based.  

Not sure what ls going on here in bold. Very confusing. I think you mean mineral. DoT absorbs water but its reflux boiling point is still much higher than mineral or water. Think of engine coolant, ethylene glycol, it raises the waters boiling point to prevent overheating and pump cavitation. DoT has a similar property. Mineral has to do the same but it’s not as good at it 

[BaGearA]

6 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

Not sure what ls going on here in bold. Very confusing. I think you mean mineral. DoT absorbs water but its reflux boiling point is still much higher than mineral or water. Think of engine coolant, ethylene glycol, it raises the waters boiling point to prevent overheating and pump cavitation. DoT has a similar property. Mineral has to do the same but it’s not as good at it 

I worded it like dog crap sorry , I meant if a significant amount of water has been absorbed then that will boil long before the oil it self and steam will rise to the lever and displace the oil giving a lever pull of nothing.

 

Hope that makes sense ? 

[michaelbiker]

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but why don’t we need to replace the oil in our car brakes every year like it’s recommended on DOT oil bicycle brakes? Is this a requirement on motorcycles too?

[BaGearA]

1 hour ago, michaelbiker said:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but why don’t we need to replace the oil in our car brakes every year like it’s recommended on DOT oil bicycle brakes? Is this a requirement on motorcycles too?

We should.

 

 

[hansolo]

Loving how we are going round in circles "inventing" new stuff to end up basically where we started...

Pretty soon SRAM will be touting new "less powerfull" brakes to make you go faster or a new standard to mount these stronger brakes to your bike. 

Hoping I don't sound like a Luddite but I really think we could do with better lower end components for the masses rather than just making more and more expensive components.