Carrying while cycling

[Mojoman]

16 minutes ago, V18 said:

Noticing some serious anti-firearm sentiment here. 

Broad sweeps. Yes the world would be a safer place without them.... Wait. Humans will find other (less equal) ways to "off" each other. (Antisocial PD incidence is closer to 10% than 1%.)

Only major benefit of world wide gun evaporation is less bystander risk. Maar dan moet julle manne mooi kyk na julle vroue. 

I'll say this. Many are anti-gun... Untill they immediately need one or a friend with one. The only thing to stop a DETERMINED bad guy with a gun is a PROFICIENT good guy with a gun. And a FA should be plan Z. After running, hiding, shouting JMSP and pepperspraying everyting around everyone. Theft does not justify death. Unless innocent death is about to occur.

It certainly isn't for everyone. And that's a VALID RESPECTABLE decision. In the same way some people don't want to learn CPR because they are worried they'll stuff it up and end up making things worse. Because they absolutely will make things worse with half baked CPR training. Seen it many times!

But don't bash the good guys that go out training (CPR or FA proficiency) weekend after weekend to make their immediate surroundings safer in a responsible way. 

I for one feel very safe around people that carry and I know and trust to use it if absolutely needed. And I appreciate their sacrifice in doing so. 

Or just get a giant Engelsman met the tism to ride with you. They are scary AF. 

You are certainly right about guns not being for everyone...I feel that I am neither pro gun nor anti gun but unfortunately the country is crazy with crime, we have a school teacher heading up SAPS and one has to be realisitc, even if the cops were functional, they are still 5/10/15 minutes away and you are still on your own to deal with a situation.

Edited May 16 by Mojoman

[V18]

Just now, Wannabe said:

Just to throw another spanner in the works, even with being proficient/well trained in firearms and their usage, it can still go sideways very quickly.

Many years back, a person I knew quite well was killed by Bank robbers as they fled the scene. He just happened to drive past the Bank as they excited the Bank, and he decided to engage them. Long story short, he got killed and the robbers got away.

The kicker here is that he was a very active Combat Shooter that spent his weekends on the range to hone his skills. And it took only one bullet to the chest from a lowlife scumbag to end his life. 

 

Why engage? They are escaping with property. Not holding a 4yo hostage or shooting into a crowd. Plan Z. Not eager plan A. Leave the property recovery to the cops and insurance companies. 

[The Ouzo]

4 minutes ago, Mojoman said:

e fact it looks like a gun but isnt a gun

this is the issue I have with these things too. If I'm pulling out something that resembles a real gun, then it better shoot real bullets, because the bad guy with a gun is not going to take the time to asses if that thing is firing real bullets at him or not.

[V18]

1 minute ago, Mojoman said:

You are certainly right about guns not being for everyone...I feel that I am neither pro gun nor anti gun but unfortunately the country is crazy with crime and one has to be realisitc, even if the cops were functional, they are still 5/10/15 minutes away and you are still on your own to deal with a situation.

Unfortunately. You are your own first response. I've been lucky so far. And once a guy with a FA stopped to help and give me a lift to the police office. Each to their rightful own. 

[Bike Dewing]

16 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

This might be a good option to carry non lethal defense weapon when cycling. 

 

https://byrna.co.za

 

No, never.! Do not point anything at a criminal that looks like a gun but is not lethal.. do that and your assailant is now defending himself against what he perceives as a gun, and can argue that in a court of law as to why he killed you.. 

all these non lethal deterrents are only going to get you killed..

[Wannabe]

7 minutes ago, V18 said:

Why engage? They are escaping with property. Not holding a 4yo hostage or shooting into a crowd. Plan Z. Not eager plan A. Leave the property recovery to the cops and insurance companies. 

Dunno, never got to asking him.

But I agree, pick your fight, and this was not his fight. 

[Bike Dewing]

2 hours ago, Mojoman said:

Which is why my dogs sleep inside and there are security gates on the hallway as well as the bedroom...8x Cameras with motion detection, app on the phone and my tablets and an alarm for early warning.

The gun is always with me/on me and spare mags knocking about. I sort of regret not opting for a shotgun as well but one of my hallways is quite narrow so I decided against that for both operating space as well as what I imagine would be some pretty deafening noise.. I have a large canister of tear gas that can be sprayed down the hallway as well.

My last robbery occured while I was at home (car was visible as well so they knew I was there)...around 1pm...Luckily it wasnt too hectic, just scavengers but it showed me that I needed to change things, arm up and realise that day or night, you being at home or not...these guys dont care and will take their chances...





 

Add the shotgun..👍🏻 narrow hallway with a 12 gauge loaded with SMG is ideal.. even your significant other will be able to point that down the hallway and cause damage, lots of damage, and the noise will just alert neighbors or stop the rest of the gang when a devastating noise and their mates limb and blood comes flying back past them out the hallway.. they’ll piss off quickly if they know what’s good for them..😳👍🏻

[Irvin85]

7 minutes ago, Bichael Dewing said:

No, never.! Do not point anything at a criminal that looks like a gun but is not lethal.. do that and your assailant is now defending himself against what he perceives as a gun, and can argue that in a court of law as to why he killed you.. 

all these non lethal deterrents are only going to get you killed..

So what do you suggest to have for a home invasion. I have a young family and had a incident this past weekend with a guy getting into our property. He triggered the alarm, when I looked at the cameras there was a light shined into one of the cameras, the armed response came out and did their sweep of the property, looked at the camera again and the perp was gone. Could have been much worse. We have had about 4 incidents in our area in the last week. 

[Bike Dewing]

5 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

So what do you suggest to have for a home invasion. I have a young family and had a incident this past weekend with a guy getting into our property. He triggered the alarm, when I looked at the cameras there was a light shined into one of the cameras, the armed response came out and did their sweep of the property, looked at the camera again and the perp was gone. Could have been much worse. We have had about 4 incidents in our area in the last week. 

I will always advocate for guns.. be your own first responder.. a shotgun is a great family gun, even children can point a shotgun down a hallway and get at least one round off if they had to(I’m talking extreme case here).. there’s no dodging a shotgun down a hallway..

I was taught at a young age to safely handle firearms and if I had kids I would do the same with them..

[Robbie Stewart]

39 minutes ago, peepeekaitjie said:

Dunoon et al work wonderfully

It actually does - when compared to similar places elsewhere in the Cape, never mind SA.

Yesterday I was driving past Dunoon to the N7 and passed maybe 3 SAPS bakkies and probably as many CoCT Traffic cars that had boxed in a taxi by the traffic lights and they were busy cuffing the driver in the middle of the road.

Another time I passed the same way and I'm pretty sure all of Cape Town's police and law enforcement descended on that place like it was ground zero for a "eat as much as you can for free KFC buffet", except it was for a shooter at the local Shoprite.

Look, that place has it's days, and the days for cycling past there are long gone thanks to Covid, but apart from that, I still prefer the Cape over anywhere else in SA.

[dave303e]

 

28 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

only if you live in the Republic of the Western Cape. 

Everyone else lives in Retardistan, formerly known as South Africa, which is part of Africa. the Republic of the Western Cape is nothing like Africa. Here, stuff works.

 Western cape works in certain areas. But a lot of it is not on your doorstep not your issue. So it is just worse inequality

 

1 minute ago, V18 said:

Why engage? They are escaping with property. Not holding a 4yo hostage or shooting into a crowd. Plan Z. Not eager plan A. Leave the property recovery to the cops and insurance companies. 

Ya if they are on the way out, let them go. Take down as many details as possible and let someone else sort it out before putting yourself at risk.

2 minutes ago, Mojoman said:

You are certainly right about guns not being for everyone...I feel that I am neither pro gun nor anti gun but unfortunately the country is crazy with crime and one has to be realisitc, even if the cops were functional, they are still 5/10/15 minutes away and you are still on your own to deal with a situation.

We live 25mins from the nearest policy station with no private armed response company. It is an essential

[ewep]

I am most defenitely not a pro! But I practised enough to be quite comfortable with handling my FA while in the house, in the bakkie and working.  I was fortunate enough to work for a gentleman who had the patience to "walk" me through quite a few scenarios where we could practice with both live ammunition and Snap Caps.  He went as far as to give me loaded magazines with a snap cap on round 10 of a 16 round magazine.  (I'll get to the point now)

 

So luister my uit.  I carry my FA.  I ride a gravel bike.  I'm riding on a gravel road in the Vrystaat.  There are quite a lot of people walking on the gravel roads.  People going to town, farm workers walking back from a far-away cattle camp people going to visit or walking back home.  Who knows, die man dra 'n overall en het sy hoed op sy kop.  I have my head on a swivel and I try to avoid such a person.  As I get close the person draws back his arm to throw a klip at me. I'm only riding at 15km/h (ek is dik en stadig).  *RED LIGHTS*  Option 1, draw while riding.  Errrrrm, dis SINKPLAAT pad die!  Ek gaat my ant Tillie los val!  Option 2, slam on the brakes, unclip, foot down when you're at a standstill, drag shirt up (onthou daar's stront in daai sakke, dis gels en sleutels en 'n foun)) then try to get your FA out of the Kydex holster.  You have to use a bit of force to do that but wait, that Kydex is on a nice Assos lycra bib, so daai ding broek rek en daai holster wil nie laat los nie!  Only after all of this can you point the FA (let's hope you carry one up!) and defend yourself.  Daai bra het jou lankal HARD geslaat met 'n klip en met 'n thipa gesteek teen die tyd.  As the boss explained to me "jy kan nie sê nee, wag eers 'n bietjie nie".  And I don't even want to THINK about the process on a TT bike!

 

So, even though I was quite comfortable carrying a FA daily, I just can't see myself carrying on any bicycle.  The mechanics to get to the point where your sight picture is there just has too many danger points.  Hier's hy, vat die ding en my foun and then run like I've never run before!

[Mojoman]

5 minutes ago, dave303e said:

 

 Western cape works in certain areas. But a lot of it is not on your doorstep not your issue. So it is just worse inequality

 

Ya if they are on the way out, let them go. Take down as many details as possible and let someone else sort it out before putting yourself at risk.

We live 25mins from the nearest policy station with no private armed response company. It is an essential

Im literally about 5 minutes away from my local SAPS but it might as well be 5 hrs with these guys...



 

[Shebeen]

56 minutes ago, V18 said:

Noticing some serious anti-firearm sentiment here. 

Broad sweeps. Yes the world would be a safer place without them.... Wait. Humans will find other (less equal) ways to "off" each other. (Antisocial PD incidence is closer to 10% than 1%.)

Only major benefit of world wide gun evaporation is less bystander risk. Maar dan moet julle manne mooi kyk na julle vroue. 

I'll say this. Many are anti-gun... Untill they immediately need one or a friend with one. The only thing to stop a DETERMINED bad guy with a gun is a PROFICIENT good guy with a gun. And a FA should be plan Z. After running, hiding, shouting JMSP and pepperspraying everyting around everyone. Theft does not justify death. Unless innocent death is about to occur.

It certainly isn't for everyone. And that's a VALID RESPECTABLE decision. In the same way some people don't want to learn CPR because they are worried they'll stuff it up and end up making things worse. Because they absolutely will make things worse with half baked CPR training. Seen it many times!

But don't bash the good guys that go out training (CPR or FA proficiency) weekend after weekend to make their immediate surroundings safer in a responsible way. 

I for one feel very safe around people that carry and I know and trust to use it if absolutely needed. And I appreciate their sacrifice in doing so. 

Or just get a giant Engelsman met the tism to ride with you. They are scary AF. 

Really - gun people get more emotional about their firearms than shimano on an italian bike.? You've been triggered and have probably just stoked a whole bunch of anti-gun sentiment that wasn't actually here in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mojoman]

37 minutes ago, Bichael Dewing said:

Add the shotgun..👍🏻 narrow hallway with a 12 gauge loaded with SMG is ideal.. even your significant other will be able to point that down the hallway and cause damage, lots of damage, and the noise will just alert neighbors or stop the rest of the gang when a devastating noise and their mates limb and blood comes flying back past them out the hallway.. they’ll piss off quickly if they know what’s good for them..😳👍🏻

Ja, maybe next year..I did the usual gun newbie thing and only did my handgun competency and naturally only bought a small pistol safe...🙂

[V18]

10 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

Really - gun people get more emotional about their firearms than shimano on an italian bike.? You've been triggered and have probably just stoked a whole bunch of anti-gun sentiment that wasn't actually here in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My apolgies for the hyperbole. Gave you some footing to get involved though. You do you!