Downhill Riders,including current SA National Champ, overlooked for World Champs

[ChrisF]

10 minutes ago, Sally E Kirk said:

Depending on the venue, the field can be about 160+ riders for the Elite men category - top 60 fastest qualify for the semi-final, top 30 from the semi go into the final.  This has been the format for 2023 and 2024 since sponsorship changed from Redbull to Discovery+. 

 

This does provide some perspective to "not getting the points" to qualify for World Cup.

 

From a previous post only 1 or 2 riders can gain enough points on the SA circuit, to pass the CSA criteria.

 

As much as I am for "meeting criteria", the criteria should be achievable.

 

 

There are certainly 2 or 3 VERY passionate people on this thread.  Might be good if some of you were to enter the CSA inner circle and work towards a better system.

[J Wakefield]

55 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I'm afraid you don't get to moderate what people say on a public forum.

Theo has carved out a unique Niche for himself and should be applauded IMO. There's MAYBE 5 people on the planet that can ride darkfest, hardline and compete at a world cup level. Brendan Fairclough has retired and Kade Edwards has stepped away from racing. So by my reckoning that leaves Theo and Kaos Seagrave.

He's also the only SA gravity guy apart from Greg who makes an actual living from riding his bike.

That guy is a hero and your attacks on him make you look mean spirited and a little pathetic

 

*Discalimer. I'm a MASSIVE Theo fan ever since I saw him sending the Tokai road gap on a fubar Turner Burner in jeans and a shitty green moto lid aged 12.

 

Dont think anyone is attacking him, not sure putting potential words in peoples mouth is good for the thread, as you said, you dont get to moderate what people say here...

I have knows him since he was winning 50cc SAMX titles and have from the side line followed all he has done to now and its impressive, Ray Charles could see that and especially with his speciality of skill he has grown into and the chances he has had and family support. 
He chose to specialise and grow into a skillset, I still think he would go very far in mx but he never and became successful at his chosen now. Respect. this thread is not about bashing, it's about a factual point of if you said this, you got that. 

[Duane_Bosch]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

Frankie and Ethan Q..U...A..L...I..F..I...E.....D..... and were selected so yes they get support.

 

 

I hope that if CSA does allow the Theo, Rory Etc to race you at least have the moral fortitude to turn off the tele when they drop in for their race runs.

[J Wakefield]

3 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I hope that if CSA does allow the Theo, Rory Etc to race you at least have the moral fortitude to turn off the tele when they drop in for their race runs.

DSTV in fairness reading threads here, will have an advert during their runs more than likely. 

[Thermophage]

4 hours ago, MORNE said:

Maybe Theo caught a nerve with someone on CSA board a few years back when he was a younger hooligan. They would basically ridicule the lycra tigers trying to navigate the most basic features on XCO and Epic stages haha. He would watch them crawl down, then proceed to huck whole sections without even touching the ground😅
 

the fastest way over an obstacle = there is no obstacle 

Those were k@k (geez BH...it's 2024, nor 1824) funny and impressive   HIYP 😅

Edited July 26 by Thermophage

[Sally E Kirk]

18 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

 

Frankie and Ethan Q..U...A..L...I..F..I...E.....D..... and were selected so yes they get support.

 

 

Unfortunately they are still trying to raise the funds to get to Andorra.

[Shebeen]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

 

 

it does not surprise me that you attempt to devolve the conversation into a j'accuse, i.e. me of being mean toward Theo despite my admiration for what he has achieved. I have nothing against him on any level despite your little clique's attempt to paint that picture. Pretty childish.

The topic of discussion I'm focussed on is qualification for World Championships while his "supporters" have only played the man, be that CSA or anyone who disagrees with their point of view, and tried to draw the reader into the emotive space that a talented rider(s) is/are being persecuted when the position they find themselves in is of their own doing. At no point have they even acknowledged their role in their position.

I'm sure Theo Rory and co will all qualify next year as they find a way to navigate the qualification criteria and get the number of points required. I'm also sure CSA will take their concerns into account and amend the points structure, but they are never going to send 6 or 7 males and female for every category to Worlds. The criteria is always going to aim for the top 2 or 3 riders and the selection criteria as it stands, aims to achieve that.

 

This is such a great Friday thread! 

It is obvious to see that the CSA selection point system is dumb.

The elite males is "competitive" so the 7 points available locally got split between 5 riders, 2 others got points in europe so let's leave them out of it.

 

 

Here is another category, names blanked out because it's not really about them. Only 3 riders competing, they split the 7 local points between them.

 

 

So @DieselnDust is accusing the local guys of not following the rules and criteria to qualify. He is not open to the possibility of the criteria being dumb.

The elite males had 22 entries for nationals, none of them go to worlds.

This other category had 3 entries for nationals and 2 go to worlds. 

Does this satisfy the objective?

Quote

The objective is thus also to recognize the achievements of riders at the highest level, and to enhance, maintain and protect the status of merit-based Team SA Selection over time and that riders who do not meet selection standards will not be selected for World Championships and Olympic Games to gain experience.

 

If you can't see this is a dumb system then I guess there is no point going further down the road here. I can see why the system was objected to, and some common sense could be applied.

 

 

[DieselnDust]

15 minutes ago, Duane_Bosch said:

I hope that if CSA does allow the Theo, Rory Etc to race you at least have the moral fortitude to turn off the tele when they drop in for their race runs.

If they get to go and if dstv actually screens the world champs and if Cecil nurse doesnt try to sell me a chair at that moment I will be cheering for the Saffas in all the disciplines as I always have. 
first up is Candice on Sunday. 
Because you know she QUALiFIED

[Headshot]

21 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

Dont think anyone is attacking him, not sure putting potential words in peoples mouth is good for the thread, as you said, you dont get to moderate what people say here...

I have knows him since he was winning 50cc SAMX titles and have from the side line followed all he has done to now and its impressive, Ray Charles could see that and especially with his speciality of skill he has grown into and the chances he has had and family support. 
He chose to specialise and grow into a skillset, I still think he would go very far in mx but he never and became successful at his chosen now. Respect. this thread is not about bashing, it's about a factual point of if you said this, you got that. 

Except some of your comments are bashing him and the other male riders. And you and your fan, Diesel, seem to support some very poor management of the situation by CSA, from the quali requirements onwards. 

 

3 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

This is such a great Friday thread! 

It is obvious to see that the CSA selection point system is dumb.

The elite males is "competitive" so the 7 points available locally got split between 5 riders, 2 others got points in europe so let's leave them out of it.

 

 

Here is another category, names blanked out because it's not really about them. Only 3 riders competing, they split the 7 local points between them.

 

 

So @DieselnDust is accusing the local guys of not following the rules and criteria to qualify. He is not open to the possibility of the criteria being dumb.

The elite males had 22 entries for nationals, none of them go to worlds.

This other category had 3 entries for nationals and 2 go to worlds. 

Does this satisfy the objective?

 

If you can't see this is a dumb system then I guess there is no point going further down the road here. I can see why the system was objected to, and some common sense could be applied.

 

 

Brilliant, was about to try and say the same thing...

I'll just reiterate how hypocritical these sticklers for following the rules, no matter how dumb, are. 

[Onlybikes]

crazy

 

Edited July 26 by Onlybikes

[DieselnDust]

5 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

This is such a great Friday thread! 

It is obvious to see that the CSA selection point system is dumb.

The elite males is "competitive" so the 7 points available locally got split between 5 riders, 2 others got points in europe so let's leave them out of it.

 

 

Here is another category, names blanked out because it's not really about them. Only 3 riders competing, they split the 7 local points between them.

 

 

So @DieselnDust is accusing the local guys of not following the rules and criteria to qualify. He is not open to the possibility of the criteria being dumb.

The elite males had 22 entries for nationals, none of them go to worlds.

This other category had 3 entries for nationals and 2 go to worlds. 

Does this satisfy the objective?

 

If you can't see this is a dumb system then I guess there is no point going further down the road here. I can see why the system was objected to, and some common sense could be applied.

 

 

I was waiting for this one…😂

selection criteria isn’t designed to fill quotas for the big events. It’s designed to identify the most consistent riders and the best at the national champs. At best, the intent is to send the top 2 men and women from elite, U23 and junior categories. NOT TO FILL QUOTAS.

ask CSA and SASCOC why that is, but it is what it is and those affected only read the rules in MARCH which is 3 months after DECEMBER ‘23.

so when you say the system is dumb what do you mean? Dumb in that it does allow CSA to fill the quota or dumb Soema just because it’s a popular thing to say?

 

[Duane_Bosch]

10 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

first up is Candice on Sunday. 
Because you know she QUALiFIED

Congratulations. You're 100% right. In the exact same way as the not a 3 way stop, is it a yield? who has right of way here? intersection at Kirstenbosch.

[Sally E Kirk]

11 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

This is such a great Friday thread! 

It is obvious to see that the CSA selection point system is dumb.

The elite males is "competitive" so the 7 points available locally got split between 5 riders, 2 others got points in europe so let's leave them out of it.

 

 

Here is another category, names blanked out because it's not really about them. Only 3 riders competing, they split the 7 local points between them.

 

 

So @DieselnDust is accusing the local guys of not following the rules and criteria to qualify. He is not open to the possibility of the criteria being dumb.

The elite males had 22 entries for nationals, none of them go to worlds.

This other category had 3 entries for nationals and 2 go to worlds. 

Does this satisfy the objective?

 

If you can't see this is a dumb system then I guess there is no point going further down the road here. I can see why the system was objected to, and some common sense could be applied.

 

 

Thank you for pointing out the flaws in the system so succinctly.  The current Convenor of Selectors at CSA has acknowledged that the selection criteria are "dumb" as you put it.  He is quoted as saying - "in discussions with riders, coaches and other industry players, it has become evident that we need to review the policy for next year".  Pity it's too late for our Elite Males this year.  #lettheboysride

[J Wakefield]

15 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Except some of your comments are bashing him and the other male riders. And you and your fan, Diesel, seem to support some very poor management of the situation by CSA, from the quali requirements onwards. 

 

Brilliant, was about to try and say the same thing...

I'll just reiterate how hypocritical these sticklers for following the rules, no matter how dumb, are. 

If you mean by bashing saying that they did not qualify then I am guilty 100%. 

Excuse me for following rules, criteria etc that is set out. Ive been on the **** stick end of it before with zero lube from CSA and In my job the the line in Hi Performance is between success and failure is so thin that it goes either way. So yes, if there is a criteria you abide by it. Is it perfect? maybe not, it never is but dont come here and bitch at me cause I asked "did they qualify? if not they dont go" thats not bashing that is a fact. 
 

There has been a history of legal drama with selections, Robyn de Groot is a prime example of someone going to Olympics due to X reason and taking Cherise (at the time Taylors) place. Criteria broken or mismanaged. 

Options are:
Improve the criteria 
Make athlete go to the events to qualify not say that that the level locally isnt good enough for whatever reason.
Take responsibility as a athlete to know what is expected and needs to be achieved 
The list goes on

This whole approach in South Africa to performance related things like this is exactly what is wrong with the SA culture, everyone wants a participation medal and why the pathway to success and development is hardly ever achieved. 

 

Edited July 26 by J Wakefield

[JohnTheHuman]

Wow some of the takes on this forum have been wild and read like bitter old men who don't want to let the kids have fun because "back in my day we worked hard".

Dismissing Theo's skills on a bike is so out of pocket but at least after a statement like that everyone can see that every other opinion should be taken with a dumptruck of salt. Saying he is the epic rider is crazy, Theo is probably pulling more of a gap on those riders down the ~1min30sec track than what he is losing by on a full length world cup circuit.
 

But besides all that, I also have a 2 cent to throw in.
Having read through the forum, articles and also just knowing a lot of the people involved, I see where they are coming from. I also to some degree agree with the keyboard warriors going on about knowing the rules and needing to play by them to get points to make the cut but it feels like a lot of those people are missing what the riders and their supporters are trying to say.

No one is saying it should be easy to get into the world cup team and it shouldn't be, but the rules are out of touch with the reality of trying to make it as a professional gravity rider starting out in South Africa. CSA said they didn't want riders to go over and then not make the qualifying cut which shows how out of touch they are as world champs doesn't have elimination after qualifying.

We simply do not have the level of tracks we need in order to train to compete in the world cup circuit, the only way to get experience to ride those is to go train overseas but that has been repeated ad nauseam here now.
The take that riders should just not go or come back or whatever to partake in our national series to try get the very few points available is so out of touch. The budget for the riders to do so does not exist, as well as that time being better spent riding overseas and getting experience on more suitable terrain.

My argument is not that all the slots should be filled just because we have them, I don't think we should just be handing out consolation prizes, BUT at the same time I think that winning SA champs should get you automatic qualification on its own to represent the country at world champs.

And no Theo being able to ride Hardline and Darkfest does not qualify him to ride world champs, but being the only other South African rider than Greg to qualify for Semis(TWICE) probably should, even if it isn't necessarily in line with exactly how the rules are written, there should be grace within the rules to make such exceptions.

[Shebeen]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

I was waiting for this one…😂

selection criteria isn’t designed to fill quotas for the big events. It’s designed to identify the most consistent riders and the best at the national champs. At best, the intent is to send the top 2 men and women from elite, U23 and junior categories. NOT TO FILL QUOTAS.

ask CSA and SASCOC why that is, but it is what it is and those affected only read the rules in MARCH which is 3 months after DECEMBER ‘23.

so when you say the system is dumb what do you mean? Dumb in that it does allow CSA to fill the quota or dumb Soema just because it’s a popular thing to say?

 

Dumb because in a competitive category 0 out of 22 people qualify

in a not so competitive category 2 our of 3 people qualify.

 

dumb dumb DUMB

 

 

I realise you're not going to backtrack your argument, no matter how silly it is. Remember the Greg Minnaar guy only scraped into qualifying with this system as originally laid out, but you're happy to defend it because rules are rules.