Cape Town danger areas

[nonky]

1 hour ago, droo said:

The article, and several others doing the rounds, fail to mention that the MTBers were the ones who had to go and fetch law enforcement from their positions and escort them to where the muggers were hiding out.

All the reporting around the arrests makes it sound like SAPS and SANPARKS did all the work.

To your point, I often run in Newlands Forest after work and see the ranger (toyota) bakkies safely parked before dark (near the chopper landing site).

My observation may or may not be accurate but i would think that it would be "all hands on deck"  with the current crisis on the mountain and influx of tourists doing sunset hikes.

[Jewbacca]

5 minutes ago, nonky said:

To your point, I often run in Newlands Forest after work and see the ranger (toyota) bakkies safely parked before dark (near the chopper landing site).

My observation may or may not be accurate but i would think that it would be "all hands on deck"  with the current crisis on the mountain and influx of tourists doing sunset hikes.

Does it not come down to budget? They would need many many more qualified rangers to fill the extra hours as governmental overtime is quite expensive

There is also the case that you're 'not supposed' to be on the mountain after dark. 

Do I agree with any of the above? No. But as far as man power, mandate and assigned budget go, I can imagine it's a lot more tricky than 'putting more people' in place.

The safety aspect of staff is also a concern. We have recently seen Mountain Rescue Volunteers AND rangers being mugged at gun point.

We all know it takes 29 years, 36 days, 19 hours and 56 seconds to approve even the slightest change in departmental mandate when dealing with the black hole that is the Pretoria headoffice. This isn't going to somehow change that. (Do I wish it would, yes, but realistically it probably won't)

So, like almost every other necessary service, it looks like any actionable solution will need to come from some sort of collaboration with the private sector. This will involve incentive for them to work with the private sector, probably in the form of kick backs and financial misdemeanors just to get a foot in the door to propose a collaboration.

From there it will likely involve mountain usage fees etc to generate revenue, so any workable solution that isn't going to take forever to implement will cost the end user money and still probably not be infallible. 

Am I a doom and gloom person? No, but in this regard I have zero faith in our powers that bee (on purpose) to do anything worthwhile

I REALLY hope they prove me wrong

[DJR]

39 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

...........Am I a doom and gloom person? ............

You are just a realist in his December phase.🤪

Edited December 6, 2023 by DJR

[droo]

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Does it not come down to budget? They would need many many more qualified rangers to fill the extra hours as governmental overtime is quite expensive

There is also the case that you're 'not supposed' to be on the mountain after dark. 

Do I agree with any of the above? No. But as far as man power, mandate and assigned budget go, I can imagine it's a lot more tricky than 'putting more people' in place.

The safety aspect of staff is also a concern. We have recently seen Mountain Rescue Volunteers AND rangers being mugged at gun point.

We all know it takes 29 years, 36 days, 19 hours and 56 seconds to approve even the slightest change in departmental mandate when dealing with the black hole that is the Pretoria headoffice. This isn't going to somehow change that. (Do I wish it would, yes, but realistically it probably won't)

So, like almost every other necessary service, it looks like any actionable solution will need to come from some sort of collaboration with the private sector. This will involve incentive for them to work with the private sector, probably in the form of kick backs and financial misdemeanors just to get a foot in the door to propose a collaboration.

From there it will likely involve mountain usage fees etc to generate revenue, so any workable solution that isn't going to take forever to implement will cost the end user money and still probably not be infallible. 

Am I a doom and gloom person? No, but in this regard I have zero faith in our powers that bee (on purpose) to do anything worthwhile

I REALLY hope they prove me wrong

This all assumes that there's political will to solve the problem, which there clearly isn't. On the one side you've got national govt who will do anything to make the WC look bad. Case in point - the property that the crook was arrested at is owned by Public Works, and they're making no attempts to clean it up.

On the other side you've got WC government taking all the credit to make it look like they're actually doing something, when in reality their hands are tied to a large degree. 

But if you moer a mugger, both sides will come after you...

[seahorse]

Parks Board chopper doing patrols over LH & SH 30 mins ago

[saggy]

3 hours ago, nonky said:

To your point, I often run in Newlands Forest after work and see the ranger (toyota) bakkies safely parked before dark (near the chopper landing site).

My observation may or may not be accurate but i would think that it would be "all hands on deck"  with the current crisis on the mountain and influx of tourists doing sunset hikes.

I was at muizenberg beach on monday morning around 8am, pretty empty and quiet at that time.

 

There were 4 Saps guys there making some guy put his dog on a lead ..... while he was throwing a ball around way in the corner of the beach far from anyone else not bothering a soul.

Could not help but think that they could be doing something more useful!

[RustyHWR]

3 minutes ago, saggy said:

I was at muizenberg beach on monday morning around 8am, pretty empty and quiet at that time.

 

There were 4 Saps guys there making some guy put his dog on a lead ..... while he was throwing a ball around way in the corner of the beach far from anyone else not bothering a soul.

Could not help but think that they could be doing something more useful!

I would like to know where all the Law Enforcement officers are that patrolled the beaches during Covid?

[nonky]

2 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Does it not come down to budget? They would need many many more qualified rangers to fill the extra hours as governmental overtime is quite expensive

There is also the case that you're 'not supposed' to be on the mountain after dark. 

 

The safety aspect of staff is also a concern. We have recently seen Mountain Rescue Volunteers AND rangers being mugged at gun point.

 

From there it will likely involve mountain usage fees etc to generate revenue, so any workable solution that isn't going to take forever to implement will cost the end user money and still probably not be infallible. 

Am I a doom and gloom person? No, but in this regard I have zero faith in our powers that bee (on purpose) to do anything worthwhile

I REALLY hope they prove me wrong

insert [you make me sad] meme here

[nonky]

21 minutes ago, droo said:

This all assumes that there's political will to solve the problem, which there clearly isn't. On the one side you've got national govt who will do anything to make the WC look bad. Case in point - the property that the crook was arrested at is owned by Public Works, and they're making no attempts to clean it up.

On the other side you've got WC government taking all the credit to make it look like they're actually doing something, when in reality their hands are tied to a large degree. 

But if you moer a mugger, both sides will come after you...

No comment. 

Better to STFU temporarily than banned permanently.   

[nonky]

8 minutes ago, RustyHWR said:

I would like to know where all the Law Enforcement officers are that patrolled the beaches during Covid?

Yip, there were literally DOZENS preventing pedestrian access to Newlands Forest.  

[Danger Dassie]

32 minutes ago, droo said:

This all assumes that there's political will to solve the problem, which there clearly isn't. On the one side you've got national govt who will do anything to make the WC look bad. Case in point - the property that the crook was arrested at is owned by Public Works, and they're making no attempts to clean it up.

On the other side you've got WC government taking all the credit to make it look like they're actually doing something, when in reality their hands are tied to a large degree. 

But if you moer a mugger, both sides will come after you...

Seems to be a case of both a lack of political willpower and handwringing. I also think the whole 'national government has our hands tied' is often overplayed as a scapegoat for the sake of political grandstanding.

Local government can increase policing when it suits them, ie beaches and parks during lockdown. But not when the community really needs them. I remember when Oceanview residents blockaded the road to Kommetjie because their pleas for assistance against the increasing gang activity were not being listened to. Then suddenly CT Metro and SAPS had resources to disperse for pop. 

[droo]

40 minutes ago, RustyHWR said:

I would like to know where all the Law Enforcement officers are that patrolled the beaches during Covid?

Ask Hat Man. He'll probably need a court to tell him to apologise for his answer, but he'll definitely have one for you.

[droo]

17 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said:

I also think the whole 'national government has our hands tied' is often overplayed as a scapegoat for the sake of political grandstanding.

Oh definitely. I didn't manage to get the appropriate amount of sarcasm across in my reply, but it was there in my head.

 

18 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said:

Local government can increase policing when it suits them, ie beaches and parks during lockdown. But not when the community really needs them. I remember when Oceanview residents blockaded the road to Kommetjie because their pleas for assistance against the increasing gang activity were not being listened to. Then suddenly CT Metro and SAPS had resources to disperse for pop. 

This bit I'm not so sure of. WC have been fighting with national for ages about this. Hat Man holds the keys here, and he's not letting go.

[droo]

A petition from Friends Of Table Mountain, for what it's worth. They're one of the civil society organisations actually trying to make a difference in this whole thing, so I reckon a show of support here may help them along.

[Shebeen]

8 minutes ago, droo said:

A petition from Friends Of Table Mountain, for what it's worth. They're one of the civil society organisations actually trying to make a difference in this whole thing, so I reckon a show of support here may help them along.

I love how people still think online petitions do anything tangible.

 

supposedly a heatmap of 83 reported incidents for 2023.

what you can't see here is any fences or entrance gates where SanParks gets park fees.

There's the cableway (contract lease due in 2025) otherwise no revenue generation here from visitors. System designed for the landowners not to really care what happens and do the bare minimum to keep it going.

 

 

 

[wolver]

This will be an unpopular opinion... but shouldn't EVERYONE on the mountain have a permit?

Why do mountain bikers need one and not hikers? Not as if that money goes towards building the trails. And clumsy hikers falling off Lions Head on a regular basis actually costs money to be rescued.

More permits = more money for managing the park & and anyone without one gets kicked out. Hopefully that would also justify having a simpler process (in app purchase showing proof) of obtaining a permit rather than requiring someone to take a leave day to make the trip to the single location they're available to complete the process🙄

 

Edit: oh wait... it's a government department, rational thought doesn't apply.

Edited December 6, 2023 by wolver