LCHF - Low Carb High Fat Diet Ver 2

[Odinson]

If you want info, Amber o'Hearn seems to have an intelligent considered view on the topic.

http://www.empiri.ca and there are some clips on youtube of talks she has done.

There are also a bunch of podcasts, but too many of them are the radical 'end of the world' type opinion for me.

2ketoDudes featured Carnivore in one of their early episodes iirc.

 

I tried it for about a month; had small beneficial changes in bloods results (lower US-CRP, Trigs, APO's) but my feeling is one month is too short for a proper trial. It's an easy way to eat but I did miss the taste of salads - just the 'crunchiness' or 'mouth feel' of lettuce or cucumber.

 

There was no noticeable change in how I felt or cycling performance. Lost around 3kgs that month but was also doing LOTS of Maffetone style training at the time so cannot claim correlation.

 

As you will realize from other comments posted here you are likely to get shocked looks or pushback from folk who intrinsically believe that meat is bad for you based on reports in the popular press. I tried to find any studies that showed a pure carnivore diet is bad for you and could not. What you will find is lots of studies where either:

1. the 'meat' is predominantly processed polony, sausages, tinned meat, etc, which I believe is bad for you anyway and I don't eat that stuff, and/or

2. the meat is mixed with a diet of 20-30% carbs. We know that the body's reaction to fat and meat is completely different in the presence of carbs so cannot be compared to a pure carnivore or even LCHF diet.

 

As always, do some homework and make up your own mind.

And you’re not going to find carnivore studies. Why? Because what research team is going to get ethics clearance to put people on such a diet when there’s a mountain of evidence to indicate the role of high meat consumption in chronic lifestyle diseases. You’re also not going to find epidemiological data because there isn’t any, because no population eats like that.

 

This internet diet is nothing but a dangerous and socially irresponsible fad, led by halfwits such as Shawn Baker.

[Grogs]

If you have nothing constructive to say piss off...

What deanbean said.

[dave303e]

I would also be grumpy if I couldn't smash down some full cream milk with my oats for breakfast, have ham in my sandwich at lunch and a nice lean chicken breast in my pasta for dinner

[Vegan Warrior]

Big fan of Emily Batty. 

 

Looks like she's recently changed her dietary approach to LCHF. She posted a "what I eat in day" video on her YouTube channel earlier this month (will try link it below).

 

Definitely an asset to have on team keto!

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTopJ5vqjmk

[Chris_]

I tried LCHF for a good few months at varsity. Granted budget was not on my side to make it more enjoyable... but I felt like a pile of sheet. Lethargic and just ill (the feeling not medical). I love experimenting with diets but this one certainly didn't graft. 

 

I know we're all different which is why I find it fascinating that this can work for people.

 

I've usually had very high protein intake regardless of diet type, so trying out with increasing to stupid levels which I imagine borders on carnivore or probably more atkins, also left me feeling worse for wear over a longer period. 

 

I'm interested to see a long term - but properly long term reviews of the carnivore diet. I simply cannot imagine its physically sustainable nor 'healthy'.

[Grogs]

Carnivore diet has many proponents, and I do believe that it could have a place (e.g. to treat disease or other chronic conditions). I'm not about to try it.

 

We're learning all the time about nutrition, and I really think that we still know very little about it. I really don't think we know enough to simply say that the carnivore diet is "a dangerous fad led by halfwits".

 

Sometimes the less you know the more you think you know.

[henningvr]

I recently turned 49. I've been doing keto for 4 years, and during the last 8 months I've been eating carnivore for the most part. I still enjoy a proper salad with lots of avo and cruciferous vegetables once or twice a week.

 

I had extensive blood work done a month ago for insurance purposes. Quoting my doctor, "Your results look like that of a very fit and healthy 30 year old."

 

Five years ago I weighed 130kg, I was constantly tired, sick more often than not, and just felt generally terrible. I had very little energy, and my mental acuity was really poor.

 

I now weigh 90kg, I am on zero medication, and I can't recall when last I was at the doctor or dentist. I eat one meal per day. I train/ride in a fasted state. I can do a 50/75/100km ride with only water in my Camelbak. My concentration levels (and mental acuity) is better than ever. My energy levels are consistent. No crashes or lethargy, and no bonking either.

 

My quality of life has improved exponentially. I feel better, fitter and stronger than ever, and I am basically in the best shape mentally, physically and health wise of my whole adult life. I attribute this to a combination of a keto-vore diet and exercise (TRX, swimming and mountain biking).

 

I will gladly be a halfwit if this is the result. 

[Dirt De Vil]

And you’re not going to find carnivore studies. Why? Because what research team is going to get ethics clearance to put people on such a diet when there’s a mountain of evidence to indicate the role of high meat consumption in chronic lifestyle diseases. You’re also not going to find epidemiological data because there isn’t any, because no population eats like that.

 

This internet diet is nothing but a dangerous and socially irresponsible fad, led by halfwits such as Shawn Baker.

 

From some of your posts it’s clear that you are a clever person, if you try to be less condescending other people might listen to what you have to say.

[Grondpad]

I recently turned 49. I've been doing keto for 4 years, and during the last 8 months I've been eating carnivore for the most part. I still enjoy a proper salad with lots of avo and cruciferous vegetables once or twice a week.

 

I had extensive blood work done a month ago for insurance purposes. Quoting my doctor, "Your results look like that of a very fit and healthy 30 year old."

 

Five years ago I weighed 130kg, I was constantly tired, sick more often than not, and just felt generally terrible. I had very little energy, and my mental acuity was really poor.

 

I now weigh 90kg, I am on zero medication, and I can't recall when last I was at the doctor or dentist. I eat one meal per day. I train/ride in a fasted state. I can do a 50/75/100km ride with only water in my Camelbak. My concentration levels (and mental acuity) is better than ever. My energy levels are consistent. No crashes or lethargy, and no bonking either.

 

My quality of life has improved exponentially. I feel better, fitter and stronger than ever, and I am basically in the best shape mentally, physically and health wise of my whole adult life. I attribute this to a combination of a keto-vore diet and exercise (TRX, swimming and mountain biking).

 

I will gladly be a halfwit if this is the result. 

Thanks for sharing & well done buddy! I think this is what all of us are aiming for... better physically & mentally.

 

At the end of the day what I read/get from this topic is how most people experiment and then find what works for them. This helps us to gain knowledge in the process and that is never bad. Great job and keep us posted.

 

I too have found a bit more protein works good for me, and that's also why I will try what CBlake suggests to up my protein and to increase total Calaries per day.

[Patchelicious]

From some of your posts it’s clear that you are a clever person, if you try to be less condescending other people might listen to what you have to say.

You could not have put that any better.

[gifs]

It is hard for people to imagine that Keto or LCHF or Carnivore can be a healthy diet because for the last 50/60 years we have been told otherwise by everyone. But all of the mainstream dietary advice (High carb, low fat) was based on bogus "research" and "Studies", all of which are funded by the sugar/grain companies. Many people would just lambaste you for saying the opposite, because it goes against what people consider to be common knowledge. It is a natural response and I have learnt to just share my story and move on. There is not use in trying to argue the matter.

 

I myself have lost over 35kgs following a LCHF diet. I lost the first 25kg within 6 months, and since then it has been a gradual loss (with some minor ups and downs) over the last 4 years. Currently also doing IF (18:6) in the week. I often only eat dinner and I have never felt better in my life.

 

My blood work is also the best it has been for years, yes even cholesterol (HDL, trigs, LDL) is in range. I am however not convinced that there is even a link between cholesterol and heart disease.

 

On the other hand, I can see how the weight of all my friends and family who still try to stick to a "balanced" diet slowly but steadily creeps up, even those who keep active.

 

I can quite comfortably do 3 hour long runs without eating anything, because I am fat adapted. This really simplifies running if you don't need to worry about nutrition too much. Even on a recent 60km ultra trail, I consumed only one slice of banana bread, 4 baby potatoes and two small salami sticks the entire day. I quite like Zach Bitter's approach to low carb nutrition, whilst taking a bit of carbs at appropriate times. Some interesting reading here.

 

My prediction is that in 10 or 20 years from now, society in general will have it right and will not believe the sh!te (like cereal, whole grain bread, pasta, vegetable oil etc.) we considered healthy for the last 50/60 years. Based on my recent interaction with Discovery Health at a wellness day and looking at their new Health Dining benefit, it looks like they have caught a wake-up call. Now consider this: there is only reason why a company like Discovery does anything, and that is to make more money. Easiest way for them to make more money is to keep their client healthy...

[Tuxstir]

Snip

 

I myself have lost over 35kgs following a LCHF diet. I lost the first 25kg within 6 months, and since then it has been a gradual loss (with some minor ups and downs) over the last 4 years. Currently also doing IF (18:6) in the week. I often only eat dinner and I have never felt better in my life.

 

My blood work is also the best it has been for years, yes even cholesterol (HDL, trigs, LDL) is in range. I am however not convinced that there is even a link between cholesterol and heart disease.

 

Snip

 

My prediction is that in 10 or 20 years from now, society in general will have it right and will not believe the sh!te (like cereal, whole grain bread, pasta, vegetable oil etc.) we considered healthy for the last 50/60 years. Based on my recent interaction with Discovery Health at a wellness day and looking at their new Health Dining benefit, it looks like they have caught a wake-up call. Now consider this: there is only reason why a company like Discovery does anything, and that is to make more money. Easiest way for them to make more money is to keep their client healthy...

 

 

Well done on the weight loss, thats an awesome amount, i'm sure you are feeling 100 times better

 

As to the Heart and cholesterol, from my understanding ( saw a study somewhere ) cholesterol is only a factor in high carb diets,  high carb diets inflame the arteries and that's when cholesterol becomes stuck and problematic, cholesterol is an important and vital part of arteries maintenance and repair, and is used to repair cracks and tears that occur in the arteries,

 

 

Interesting, must look at  discovery diets again, as i remember them not been favorable to Keto based diets

Edited May 27, 2019 by The New Me

[gifs]

 

Interesting, must look at  discovery diets again, as i remember them not been favorable to Keto based diets

 

Their online Vitality Age quiz is still not LCHF friendly, but given the advice the dietician was giving during the wellness day as well as the Healthy Dining options I am sure they will updat this soon.

[Odinson]

It is hard for people to imagine that Keto or LCHF or Carnivore can be a healthy diet because for the last 50/60 years we have been told otherwise by everyone. But all of the mainstream dietary advice (High carb, low fat) was based on bogus "research" and "Studies", all of which are funded by the sugar/grain companies. Many people would just lambaste you for saying the opposite, because it goes against what people consider to be common knowledge. It is a natural response and I have learnt to just share my story and move on. There is not use in trying to argue the matter.

 

That's a bold statement to make and one I'm willing to call BS on. So, basically any non-pro keto/LCHF is industry funded BS? That's grossly incorrect and does a disservice to the scientific community that act in good faith when conducting research. Statements like that are in the same vein as flat-earthers claiming any evidence of the earth's spherical shape is cooked up by NASA. Any study should be treated with the necessary circumspection, as there are a lot of agenda driven 'studies' out there. However, slating all research which doesn't align with your position is intellectually dishonest. It's also important to understand what it is that you're reading. If you're unfamiliar with the literature, different types of research and study design, it's easy to feel that a case report has the same value as a large, well designed meta-analysis. 

 

I myself have lost over 35kgs following a LCHF diet. I lost the first 25kg within 6 months, and since then it has been a gradual loss (with some minor ups and downs) over the last 4 years. Currently also doing IF (18:6) in the week. I often only eat dinner and I have never felt better in my life.

 

My blood work is also the best it has been for years, yes even cholesterol (HDL, trigs, LDL) is in range. I am however not convinced that there is even a link between cholesterol and heart disease.

 

I'm honestly glad that you, according to your statements here, have a handle on your weight and blood markers. However, this is just your anecdote and is just n=1. Also, weight loss on keto is well documented. That's not the point of contention. It's the fact that it has severe long term health implications that is the issue.  

 

On the other hand, I can see how the weight of all my friends and family who still try to stick to a "balanced" diet slowly but steadily creeps up, even those who keep active.

 

I can quite comfortably do 3 hour long runs without eating anything, because I am fat adapted. This really simplifies running if you don't need to worry about nutrition too much. Even on a recent 60km ultra trail, I consumed only one slice of banana bread, 4 baby potatoes and two small salami sticks the entire day. I quite like Zach Bitter's approach to low carb nutrition, whilst taking a bit of carbs at appropriate times. Some interesting reading here.

 

My prediction is that in 10 or 20 years from now, society in general will have it right and will not believe the sh!te (like cereal, whole grain bread, pasta, vegetable oil etc.) we considered healthy for the last 50/60 years. Based on my recent interaction with Discovery Health at a wellness day and looking at their new Health Dining benefit, it looks like they have caught a wake-up call. Now consider this: there is only reason why a company like Discovery does anything, and that is to make more money. Easiest way for them to make more money is to keep their client healthy...

 

Discovery does not set nutritional standards and is not a nutritional body. The world is unfortunately how it really is and not how we wish it to be. It's easy to sit and nitpick obscure small studies and quote them back and forth to support a position (see Joe Rogan's podcast with Kahn and Kresser), but the totality, the vortex of evidence is not pointing in the direction of LCHF to address obesity, CVD, diabetes, the plethora of autoimmune diseases, etc that is ravaging our populations. There's a whole host of lifestyle factors outside of nutrition, but what we shove in our pie hole 3 times a day plays a massive role.  

 

Ultimately, I think you and I could probably agree on a lot of things in re nutrition: that oil is not a 'health food', that (ultra)refined grain foods are not healthful, etc, but that keto is the way the human population is supposed to eat is where our common understanding diverges.  

[Pulse]

And you’re not going to find carnivore studies. Why? Because what research team is going to get ethics clearance to put people on such a diet when there’s a mountain of evidence to indicate the role of high meat consumption in chronic lifestyle diseases. You’re also not going to find epidemiological data because there isn’t any, because no population eats like that.

 

This internet diet is nothing but a dangerous and socially irresponsible fad, led by halfwits such as Shawn Baker.

 

There are both epidemiological and experimental studies on carnivore-type diets.  There are indeed populations that have a carnivore-based diet, and have been the subject of studies - although I do not necessarily agree with all their findings.

 

Yes, high protein diets have been linked to NCD's, but so has high carb diets.

[Patchelicious]

Odison is motivated my animal rights. (Nothing wrong with that.)

 

So just keep that in mind when debating diet. He will struggle to agree with a carnivore/LCHF type diets, even if studies show the dietary upsides, because of his moral stance.

 

It also doesn't mean you should simply write off his knowledge on the matter.