Odinson Posted May 27, 2019 Share Odison is motivated my animal rights. (Nothing wrong with that.) So just keep that in mind when debating diet. He will struggle to agree with a carnivore/LCHF type diets, even if studies show the dietary upsides, because of his moral stance. It also doesn't mean you should simply write off his knowledge on the matter. Please don't speak on my behalf. I'm not a child and don't need you patronizing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchelicious Posted May 27, 2019 Share Please don't speak on my behalf. I'm not a child and don't need you patronizing me. Sorry, I forgot, that's your job. If my statement was incorrect, then please correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleE Posted May 27, 2019 Share I'm honestly glad that you, according to your statements here, have a handle on your weight and blood markers. However, this is just your anecdote and is just n=1. Also, weight loss on keto is well documented. That's not the point of contention. It's the fact that it has severe long term health implications that is the issue. Isn't n=1 exactly the point of this thread?I don't see anyone here saying you MUST, or HAVE TO eat in a particular way. This is about sharing experiences and finding a better way for each person to manage their own health. If every study in the world says my cholesterol will rise on LCHF, but I test it and it goes down, does that make the studies wrong? or mean that they are 'bad science'? Of course not! But it does mean that I don't fit the same profile as the study group and have had a different response so should find my own way to manage my health. In this case gifs has found something that works for him ... it's a great success story. He is not trying to prove anything scientifically or publish a paper but maybe by sharing ideas and experiences he can help others. To make a sweeping statement like It's the fact that it has severe long term health implications that is the issue. is vague and does not really promote discussion. Patchelicious and jimmycool 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted May 27, 2019 Share Please don't speak on my behalf. I'm not a child and don't need you patronizing me. Patchelicious and Grogs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Fastbastard Mayhem Posted May 27, 2019 Share that was a very nice example of an undignified response, Odinson. Tuxstir, Grogs and Patchelicious 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinson Posted May 27, 2019 Share Isn't n=1 exactly the point of this thread?I don't see anyone here saying you MUST, or HAVE TO eat in a particular way. This is about sharing experiences and finding a better way for each person to manage their own health. If every study in the world says my cholesterol will rise on LCHF, but I test it and it goes down, does that make the studies wrong? or mean that they are 'bad science'? Of course not! But it does mean that I don't fit the same profile as the study group and have had a different response so should find my own way to manage my health. In this case gifs has found something that works for him ... it's a great success story. He is not trying to prove anything scientifically or publish a paper but maybe by sharing ideas and experiences he can help others. To make a sweeping statement like It's the fact that it has severe long term health implications that is the issue. is vague and does not really promote discussion. I'm fine with person's sharing anecdote, but it ends up in a massive echo chamber with folks entrusting their long term health based on YouTube videos, blogs and "what this other chap said on the hub". Pulse 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinson Posted May 27, 2019 Share that was a very nice example of an undignified response, Odinson. It was deserved. It's the same kind of sleazeball moves politicians pull. Play the man and you can dismiss the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuxstir Posted May 27, 2019 Share I'm fine with person's sharing anecdote, but it ends up in a massive echo chamber with folks entrusting their long term health based on YouTube videos, blogs and "what this other chap said on the hub". Isn't that what you've done to yourself???this echo chamber is the LCHF thread... is the vegan thread not doing very well? that you always need to make an ass out of yourself here? Patch actually stood up for you, but you see everything as an attack, you talk about playing the man.. well you played yourself fairly well their mate.. henningvr, Jakkals., Grogs and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaleE Posted May 27, 2019 Share I'm fine with person's sharing anecdote, but it ends up in a massive echo chamber with folks entrusting their long term health based on YouTube videos, blogs and "what this other chap said on the hub". This is not youtube or some blog. For the most part this discussion has been a respectful one with intelligent people sharing experiences, n=1 experiments and ideas. Your echo chamber theory may be correct. Is this a bad thing? Are you suggesting that these ideas should not be discussed just because some people disagree? If you have an opinion...- Express it as clearly as possible.- Loose the sarcasm- Avoid general / vague comments- Share your personal n=1 experiences- be open to challenge... and people will engage positively. And now, I'm off to ride my bike ... enjoy your afternoon jimmycool, Grogs, Patchelicious and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henningvr Posted May 27, 2019 Share I'm fine with person's sharing anecdote, but it ends up in a massive echo chamber with folks entrusting their long term health based on YouTube videos, blogs and "what this other chap said on the hub". Not really. Albeit informative, I don't entrust my long term health on some guy/gal on Youtube. I have been doing keto/keto-vore/LCHF under the guidance of a doctor who has seen the light (much like Tim Noakes). People, including some doctors, are and have been waking up, believe it or not. Grogs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogs Posted May 27, 2019 Share Phew - I thought the LCHF brigade were the ones that were a bit overly excitable about their diets! Patchelicious 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted May 27, 2019 Share Not really. Albeit informative, I don't entrust my long term health on some guy/gal on Youtube. I have been doing keto/keto-vore/LCHF under the guidance of a doctor who has seen the light (much like Tim Noakes). People, including some doctors, are and have been waking up, believe it or not. Its not (always) about waking up - its about best practice, based on current knowledge, understanding, and guidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted May 27, 2019 Share It is hard for people to imagine that Keto or LCHF or Carnivore can be a healthy diet because for the last 50/60 years we have been told otherwise by everyone. But all of the mainstream dietary advice (High carb, low fat) was based on bogus "research" and "Studies", all of which are funded by the sugar/grain companies. Many people would just lambaste you for saying the opposite, because it goes against what people consider to be common knowledge. It is a natural response and I have learnt to just share my story and move on. There is not use in trying to argue the matter. I myself have lost over 35kgs following a LCHF diet. I lost the first 25kg within 6 months, and since then it has been a gradual loss (with some minor ups and downs) over the last 4 years. Currently also doing IF (18:6) in the week. I often only eat dinner and I have never felt better in my life. My blood work is also the best it has been for years, yes even cholesterol (HDL, trigs, LDL) is in range. I am however not convinced that there is even a link between cholesterol and heart disease. On the other hand, I can see how the weight of all my friends and family who still try to stick to a "balanced" diet slowly but steadily creeps up, even those who keep active. I can quite comfortably do 3 hour long runs without eating anything, because I am fat adapted. This really simplifies running if you don't need to worry about nutrition too much. Even on a recent 60km ultra trail, I consumed only one slice of banana bread, 4 baby potatoes and two small salami sticks the entire day. I quite like Zach Bitter's approach to low carb nutrition, whilst taking a bit of carbs at appropriate times. Some interesting reading here. My prediction is that in 10 or 20 years from now, society in general will have it right and will not believe the sh!te (like cereal, whole grain bread, pasta, vegetable oil etc.) we considered healthy for the last 50/60 years. Based on my recent interaction with Discovery Health at a wellness day and looking at their new Health Dining benefit, it looks like they have caught a wake-up call. Now consider this: there is only reason why a company like Discovery does anything, and that is to make more money. Easiest way for them to make more money is to keep their client healthy... gifs I am GLAD your nutritional approach works for YOU. And yes, I know a few more people for whom the LCHF approach has had weight loss benefits. Well worth noting that there is many different sides to this topic. People differ, and add the odd medical condition and "nutrition" soon becomes a much more complicated topic ..... 2 March 2016 I was diagnose with type 2 diabetes.... morbidly obese and lifestyle were definite contributors. The next few weeks were a roller coaster between "internet specialists" and my dietitian ..... we then made an agreement, I would give my 100% co-operation to the traditional diabetic eating plan, effectively somewhere between a "balanced diet" and a "MCLF" eating plan. I lost 15kg before I started any exercise plan. I lost a total of 25kg in just under a year, at which point I had a body fat percentage of 17%. I have since gained about 4kg, but have dropped to 12% body fat as I exercise more regularly. End 2017 I enjoyed my leave period, over indulging in various "healthy foods" and gained 2kg.... Back at work, and back in my routine the extra weight was shed quickly. So it is not just about the healthy options, but volume\quantity should not be ignored either ... Sadly research has a long history of finding in favour of those that subsidise the research .... this extends way past just eating plans. But let's not throw out the baby with the bath water .... Like you, I share my experience and move on. Some want to learn about the options, others want to defend their life choices at all costs ... each to their own. Edited May 27, 2019 by ChrisF lechatnoir, Pieter-za and gifs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted May 30, 2019 Share Phew - I thought the LCHF brigade were the ones that were a bit overly excitable about their diets!Good observation - maybe we can start a new argument about which diet gets people the most "hangry". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexter-morgan Posted May 30, 2019 Share Not Friday, can we please continue this tomorrow morning for a proper Friday Fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted May 30, 2019 Share Not Friday, can we please continue this tomorrow morning for a proper Friday Fight. Running low on popcorn ? PS - Popcorn IS part of a "balanced diet" ! Edited May 30, 2019 by ChrisF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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