Adverse analytical finding in recent mountain bike stage race

[rudi-h]

Tend to agree.

 

I still ask myself, why, why, why ,why test a back rider that finishes a stage an hour prior to the days' cutt-off......WHAT IS THERE TO GAIN FOR ANYONE??? What a waste of money and time....it's just plain stupidity...focus on elite licensed riders...

 

i think its good. testing everyone will help to prevent a "doping culture" amongst social riders.

 

Hypothetically, if you only test the top 10, then maybe Nr. 50 will use EPO knowing that he won't be caught with the hopes that he can maybe get down to Nr. 11 and by doing that will help him get a sponsorship to a top 10 team? Then you have a situation where the top riders are all a bunch of ex-dopers faking to be clean once they get in the top ranks.

 

Its the naming and shaming of riders that hopefully will clean up the sport. Look at this recent saga with Danilo Di Luca and his EPO test. He would never have been top 10 in this year's Giro, but they tested him and caught him. Other cyclists and journalists have gone so far to call him a "stupid idiot" and making comments like "he's not only an average rider, but he has no brains". The argument is that he is risking the reputation of his trainers, coaches, team mates and teams. Surely that is a step in the right direction if you compare it to the public opinion 5 years ago after a well known rider had a positive EPO test.

[Eldron]

Wow...this thread really has gone down 50 strange roads...

 

Eldron's views:

 

Barry's confession - pretty much the least he could do. Confessions shouldn't turn rule breakers into heros - they best they can do is polish out some of the tarnish. I don't buy into the big balls respect feelings...

 

Should he be banned from the Epic for life? Yes. He knew the rules - he knew he was in danger of breakingthem and should endure the conequences. Should Owen etc be banned too? Absolutely. Everyone knows my feelings on VIP treatment for convicted dopers.

 

General ban of 12 months in my opinion. Not too serious a sanction for a non pro and will hopefuly make the other non pro dopers do a rethink and the other accidental dopers check their flu medication. Letting him off scott free will have zero impact and lord knows we need some kind of impact on ALL dopers (accidental, semi accidental and knowing).

 

Should he have been tested in the first place? In a perfect world yes. If we had enough cash to test everyone then we should do that. We don't have the cash so we should target those whos cheating has the biggest impact. Pros. Perhaps my "no harm no foul" comment didn't quite take into account the impact on the people finishing behind dopers (even in the middle to back portion of races).

 

Me - I'm in no danger of singing long term lucrative contracts on foot or bike but you can be damn sure I check what medicine I take. There is no confusion here - the epic organisers don't have to answer any questions. Go here: http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/ and download THE LIST or click on the "is my medication ok" button or the WADA list or download the TUE form - it's all there. Easy peezy.

[Guest Smimby]

CSA moan they dont have enough money to test and then they waste it on a back marker?

 

Edit

I am sure if they test any number of riders at the Argus they will have a 98% hitrate....I have heard of so many people being sick before the Argus and I am SURE they dont ask the doc what is in the stuff of care since they just want to feel better but technically if they are tested = DONE!

 

Maybe someon had wispered something in someones ear at the Epic....

Edited May 27, 2013 by Smimby

[Skott5]

I dont know why everyone is carrying on about the testing of backmarkers like it's a waste of time.

That's like saying that it's ok for an F student to have crib notes - he's only going to get 40% anyway, so leave him to cheat his way to a pass.

Rules are rules and should be enforced at all levels.

[Kranswurm]

You can find unflateering pics of anyone ... show me a pic of say Bruce Fordyce .. also looks years older than he actually is. Free radials, exposure to sun ect also make 'athletes' appear older than they actually are.

 

Saw Bruce Fordyce on Tv in an interview with Ali B

Looked fine to me

[Minion]

I dont know why everyone is carrying on about the testing of backmarkers like it's a waste of time.

That's like saying that it's ok for an F student to have crib notes - he's only going to get 40% anyway, so leave him to cheat his way to a pass.

Except, in your example, the pass has value beyond its emotional impact on the student. By cheating a pass, he could get a place at university or a job he might not otherwise have gotten and in doing so, exclude someone who earned their marks.

 

I seriously doubt that, outside the race, a back marker gains any advantage by cheating from 400th to 300th, aside from bragging rights. Nor do I think that there's much chance of the person coming 301st instead of 300th losing anything significant.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Minion

[GLuvsMtb]

CSA moan they dont have enough money to test and then they waste it on a back marker?

 

Edit

I am sure if they test any number of riders at the Argus they will have a 98% hitrate....I have heard of so many people being sick before the Argus and I am SURE they dont ask the doc what is in the stuff of care since they just want to feel better but technically if they are tested = DONE!

 

Maybe someon had wispered something in someones ear at the Epic....

The Argus is not a UCI sanctioned event. The Epic is. I remember a few years back when the UCI determined that GoPro's and other sports cameras were not allowed and this was enforced at a few of the local MTN races as this all counts to UCI points. As ridiculous as it seems, we have to adhere to the UCI rules. I also don't agree with testing back markers and think that this is probably a pre-cursor to the Epic becoming a pro's-only event (or at least only available to riders with a UCI racing license). It seems that the UCI are not geared towards mass participation events like the Epic and the organizers of the Epic will probably have to come up with a non-UCI version. Will the event remain as profitable is this happens? Only time will tell.

[DIPSLICK]

The Argus is not a UCI sanctioned event. The Epic is. I remember a few years back when the UCI determined that GoPro's and other sports cameras were not allowed and this was enforced at a few of the local MTN races as this all counts to UCI points. As ridiculous as it seems, we have to adhere to the UCI rules. I also don't agree with testing back markers and think that this is probably a pre-cursor to the Epic becoming a pro's-only event (or at least only available to riders with a UCI racing license). It seems that the UCI are not geared towards mass participation events like the Epic and the organizers of the Epic will probably have to come up with a non-UCI version. Will the event remain as profitable is this happens? Only time will tell.

 

HELLO AKA

[Guest Smimby]

I dont know why everyone is carrying on about the testing of backmarkers like it's a waste of time.

That's like saying that it's ok for an F student to have crib notes - he's only going to get 40% anyway, so leave him to cheat his way to a pass.

Rules are rules and should be enforced at all levels.

I agree, but it seems when you only have R6mil and we know the top is dirty and you moan that you dont have money then it is a bit ill applied ?

[Joe Low]

I'm very happy that the odd "ordinary" guy gets tested; it should improve the overall honesty of the field.

 

Would love to see the piles of stuff that would come out of a pills and potions amnesty for some of our events.

 

[Skubarra]

I dont know why everyone is carrying on about the testing of backmarkers like it's a waste of time.

That's like saying that it's ok for an F student to have crib notes - he's only going to get 40% anyway, so leave him to cheat his way to a pass.

Rules are rules and should be enforced at all levels.

 

The point I was trying to make (can't speak for the others) is NOT that it's ok for backmarkers to cheat. The point I was trying to make is that if you are fighting a battle with the odds against you, you have to be clever about it and use your limited resources effectively.

 

And spending limited resources testing backmarkers is not going to help one bit to deter the Armstrongs & David George's of the world, the cheats that are actually hurting the sport.

[Eldron]

SAIDS list of dopers for anyone thats interested:

 

Michael Dean Pepper: Clenbuterol & Testoserone 48 mnths

Russel Lund: Methandienone 24 months

Enzo Lezzi: Deca Durabolin 15 months

Jaco Rheeder: Methamphetamine 24 months

Andries van Straaten: Methylhexaneamine 6 months suspension

['Dale]

SAIDS list of dopers for anyone thats interested:

 

Michael Dean Pepper: Clenbuterol & Testoserone 48 mnths

Russel Lund: Methandienone 24 months

Enzo Lezzi: Deca Durabolin 15 months

Jaco Rheeder: Methamphetamine 24 months

Andries van Straaten: Methylhexaneamine 6 months suspension

 

The Pepper guy certainly went for gains, didn't he.

Eish!

[Eldron]

The point I was trying to make (can't speak for the others) is NOT that it's ok for backmarkers to cheat. The point I was trying to make is that if you are fighting a battle with the odds against you, you have to be clever about it and use your limited resources effectively.

 

And spending limited resources testing backmarkers is not going to help one bit to deter the Armstrongs & David George's of the world, the cheats that are actually hurting the sport.

 

+1

 

When you have limited time and resources you have to use them wisely.

 

It is NOT ok for anyone to cheat.

[GLuvsMtb]

Wow...this thread really has gone down 50 strange roads...

 

Eldron's views:

 

Barry's confession - pretty much the least he could do. Confessions shouldn't turn rule breakers into heros - they best they can do is polish out some of the tarnish. I don't buy into the big balls respect feelings...

 

Should he be banned from the Epic for life? Yes. He knew the rules - he knew he was in danger of breakingthem and should endure the conequences. Should Owen etc be banned too? Absolutely. Everyone knows my feelings on VIP treatment for convicted dopers.

 

General ban of 12 months in my opinion. Not too serious a sanction for a non pro and will hopefuly make the other non pro dopers do a rethink and the other accidental dopers check their flu medication. Letting him off scott free will have zero impact and lord knows we need some kind of impact on ALL dopers (accidental, semi accidental and knowing).

 

Should he have been tested in the first place? In a perfect world yes. If we had enough cash to test everyone then we should do that. We don't have the cash so we should target those whos cheating has the biggest impact. Pros. Perhaps my "no harm no foul" comment didn't quite take into account the impact on the people finishing behind dopers (even in the middle to back portion of races).

 

Me - I'm in no danger of singing long term lucrative contracts on foot or bike but you can be damn sure I check what medicine I take. There is no confusion here - the epic organisers don't have to answer any questions. Go here: http://www.drugfreesport.org.za/ and download THE LIST or click on the "is my medication ok" button or the WADA list or download the TUE form - it's all there. Easy peezy.

All good, but where do you draw the line? Say UCI prohibits the use of cut-off jerseys, does that mean that riders not complying should be DQ'd in the Epic?

[SwissVan]

Who pays for the anti doping control tests at the epic or any other UCI sanctioned event?

 

IMO random tests are just that and the larger the field (aka CE) then the more likely it is that a "nobody" (no offence meant to anyone) will get tested.

 

Obviously the main effort should be focused on the professional riders and looking back over time how many "nobodies" have been tested compared to professionals, I'll wager not many.