GoPro captures gunpoint mountain bike robbery in Somerset West

[Bosbrommer]

See the vid made it onto pinkbike...

 

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/mountain-bike-stolen-at-gunpoint-2014.html

[colourblindcrayon]

I see there's quite a heated discussion going on about could've / should've / would've.

 

Submitting

From my point of view - Malcolm's encounter is a textbook case of what to do if you're untrained / unequipped for multiple attackers with or without weapons. For the untrained, playing the odds that they are robbers without violent intent is the best hope you've got.

 

Fleeing

Another option would be to effect an escape. The odds you're playing with are effective and accurate firing (or just dumb luck) from at least one armed aggressor as well as possible blocker elements (human or otherwise) on likely escape routes. With hindsight, we can see the main aggressor has poor firearm handling skills but this can't be known on initial contact. For me, this would have been a poor choice but I also recognise that the "flight" urge might prove overwhelming for individuals where mental preparedness is not part of a daily regime.

 

Fighting

Lastly, one has the option to provide resistance. Resistance only ever becomes an option when training is part of a daily (or at the very, very least bi-weekly) schedule. By training, I do NOT mean the following:

• Aerobics
  
• Iron Man
  
• Judo Chops
  
• IPSC / ITA (and to lesser extent IDPA) club shoots.
  
• Mixed Martial Arts
  

Thinking that any of the abovementioned will serve you well in a violent, aggresive, armed conflict will only result in Rambo ego's being nurtured. Don't get me wrong, I think they're awesome as a sport, but not as a method of surviving fights with armed aggressors.

 

Legal Aspects

Roneblack46 is spot on when it comes to using legal force. The pointing of the firearm by the main aggressor justifies lethal force (even if that firearm was a replica). Drawing and firing your firearm with lethal intent in Malcom's situation falls inside the remit of justifiable, common-man self defense as prescribed by law.

 

Lethal force, however, is on a case-by-case basis - Shooting someone in the back as they're running away is a criminal offence under South African law (seeing as the attack would be seen as over).

 

The legal use of lethal force is covered in one's competency certificate prior to a firearm license application and every firearm owner should be well-versed in it (yes, even Oscar).

 

Personally Speaking

The use of lethal force, or the other alternatives (Submitting / Fleeing), are best determined before a situation even presents itself.

 

Will you give up your belongings? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

Will you provide resistance / use lethal force? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

 

Far be it from me to prescribe what you should have done in Malcom's situation - as only you determine your skills level, mental preparedness and downright level of comfort.

 

I can only speak for myself when I say that I would have fought tooth and nail, but only because:

• I train every day (in Somerset West of all places!) for violent encounters where knives, pangas, handguns and rifles are used;
  
• I'm confident in my abilities to take on multiple aggressors;
  
• I'm well trained in the use of various firearms under arduous, stress-induced conditions;
  
• I'm aware (as much as possible) of my environment; and finally
  
• Because I've made the decision to engage long before the situation presents itself
  

[nathrix]

@bicyclesafetysa: The power of social media YouTube video of #bikejacking had 1,310,283 views since yesterday!

[Tumbleweed]

Cape Town - Malcolm Fox waited for the shot.

“I know it’s a cliché,” the 36-year-old father of two told the Cape Times on Wednesday, “but in that moment I wondered if I was about to become another statistic; if my two boys would grow up without a father.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/bike-jackers-caught-on-helmet-camera-1.1698870#.U5AEOKJN_Zs

[rouxtjie]

 

Cape Town - Malcolm Fox waited for the shot.

“I know it’s a cliché,” the 36-year-old father of two told the Cape Times on Wednesday, “but in that moment I wondered if I was about to become another statistic; if my two boys would grow up without a father.”

http://www.iol.co.za...70#.U5AEOKJN_Zs

Yip when the chips are down....the game changes. That sums it up for me.

[Cassie]

I see there's quite a heated discussion going on about could've / should've / would've.

 

Submitting

From my point of view - Malcolm's encounter is a textbook case of what to do if you're untrained / unequipped for multiple attackers with or without weapons. For the untrained, playing the odds that they are robbers without violent intent is the best hope you've got.

 

Fleeing

Another option would be to effect an escape. The odds you're playing with are effective and accurate firing (or just dumb luck) from at least one armed aggressor as well as possible blocker elements (human or otherwise) on likely escape routes. With hindsight, we can see the main aggressor has poor firearm handling skills but this can't be known on initial contact. For me, this would have been a poor choice but I also recognise that the "flight" urge might prove overwhelming for individuals where mental preparedness is not part of a daily regime.

 

Fighting

Lastly, one has the option to provide resistance. Resistance only ever becomes an option when training is part of a daily (or at the very, very least bi-weekly) schedule. By training, I do NOT mean the following:

• Aerobics
  
• Iron Man
  
• Judo Chops
  
• IPSC / ITA (and to lesser extent IDPA) club shoots.
  
• Mixed Martial Arts
  

Thinking that any of the abovementioned will serve you well in a violent, aggresive, armed conflict will only result in Rambo ego's being nurtured. Don't get me wrong, I think they're awesome as a sport, but not as a method of surviving fights with armed aggressors.

 

Legal Aspects

Roneblack46 is spot on when it comes to using legal force. The pointing of the firearm by the main aggressor justifies lethal force (even if that firearm was a replica). Drawing and firing your firearm with lethal intent in Malcom's situation falls inside the remit of justifiable, common-man self defense as prescribed by law.

 

Lethal force, however, is on a case-by-case basis - Shooting someone in the back as they're running away is a criminal offence under South African law (seeing as the attack would be seen as over).

 

The legal use of lethal force is covered in one's competency certificate prior to a firearm license application and every firearm owner should be well-versed in it (yes, even Oscar).

 

Personally Speaking

The use of lethal force, or the other alternatives (Submitting / Fleeing), are best determined before a situation even presents itself.

 

Will you give up your belongings? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

Will you provide resistance / use lethal force? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

 

Far be it from me to prescribe what you should have done in Malcom's situation - as only you determine your skills level, mental preparedness and downright level of comfort.

 

I can only speak for myself when I say that I would have fought tooth and nail, but only because:

• I train every day (in Somerset West of all places!) for violent encounters where knives, pangas, handguns and rifles are used;
  
• I'm confident in my abilities to take on multiple aggressors;
  
• I'm well trained in the use of various firearms under arduous, stress-induced conditions;
  
• I'm aware (as much as possible) of my environment; and finally
  
• Because I've made the decision to engage long before the situation presents itself
  

 

@colourblindcrayon....Can you ride with me?? I need a new MTB partner!! My old one is a wuss!!

[DJR]

@ Colourblindcrayon - That is a great post above

[Roneblack46]

I see there's quite a heated discussion going on about could've / should've / would've.

 

Submitting

From my point of view - Malcolm's encounter is a textbook case of what to do if you're untrained / unequipped for multiple attackers with or without weapons. For the untrained, playing the odds that they are robbers without violent intent is the best hope you've got.

 

Fleeing

Another option would be to effect an escape. The odds you're playing with are effective and accurate firing (or just dumb luck) from at least one armed aggressor as well as possible blocker elements (human or otherwise) on likely escape routes. With hindsight, we can see the main aggressor has poor firearm handling skills but this can't be known on initial contact. For me, this would have been a poor choice but I also recognise that the "flight" urge might prove overwhelming for individuals where mental preparedness is not part of a daily regime.

 

Fighting

Lastly, one has the option to provide resistance. Resistance only ever becomes an option when training is part of a daily (or at the very, very least bi-weekly) schedule. By training, I do NOT mean the following:

• Aerobics
  
• Iron Man
  
• Judo Chops
  
• IPSC / ITA (and to lesser extent IDPA) club shoots.
  
• Mixed Martial Arts
  

Thinking that any of the abovementioned will serve you well in a violent, aggresive, armed conflict will only result in Rambo ego's being nurtured. Don't get me wrong, I think they're awesome as a sport, but not as a method of surviving fights with armed aggressors.

 

Legal Aspects

Roneblack46 is spot on when it comes to using legal force. The pointing of the firearm by the main aggressor justifies lethal force (even if that firearm was a replica). Drawing and firing your firearm with lethal intent in Malcom's situation falls inside the remit of justifiable, common-man self defense as prescribed by law.

 

Lethal force, however, is on a case-by-case basis - Shooting someone in the back as they're running away is a criminal offence under South African law (seeing as the attack would be seen as over).

 

The legal use of lethal force is covered in one's competency certificate prior to a firearm license application and every firearm owner should be well-versed in it (yes, even Oscar).

 

Personally Speaking

The use of lethal force, or the other alternatives (Submitting / Fleeing), are best determined before a situation even presents itself.

 

Will you give up your belongings? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

Will you provide resistance / use lethal force? Great, then prepare yourself to do just that.

 

Far be it from me to prescribe what you should have done in Malcom's situation - as only you determine your skills level, mental preparedness and downright level of comfort.

 

I can only speak for myself when I say that I would have fought tooth and nail, but only because:

• I train every day (in Somerset West of all places!) for violent encounters where knives, pangas, handguns and rifles are used;
  
• I'm confident in my abilities to take on multiple aggressors;
  
• I'm well trained in the use of various firearms under arduous, stress-induced conditions;
  
• I'm aware (as much as possible) of my environment; and finally
  
• Because I've made the decision to engage long before the situation presents itself
  

 

My sentiments exactly. I am glad there are those like us out there. Ride safe out there.

[rouxtjie]

My sentiments exactly. I am glad there are those like us out there. Ride safe out there.

mmmmmm....ok.

[Jigghead]

i hope they catch all FOUR of them. at 0:57, there's clearly some one in a hoodie sporting a very long stick parked off along the trail the gunman sent the rider along. He is either a perp, or the perfect witness.

 

Maybe he would have knocked the rider off if he'd tried to escape after seeing the first one running up in a hurry. Looks like they weren't gonna let anyone get away irrespective of which route they were riding. Well done to the victim for staying calm and making sure the perp was aware that he was not going to try anything.

[Wyatt Earp]

Yeah, we need to get all krav maga on their asses

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzkEvEyNbN4

 

All good ,but the point I am trying to make.

I can teach someone a specific take-down for an hour three times a week, when they are in the heat of the moment, the chances of them doing it successfully is way down.

I appreciate what all these schools do and people going to these classes, where I foresee a problem is that unless you train the stuff on a daily basis (with a not so willing partner) it becomes second nature.

 

It will be at that moment that one can try and play a bit of Chuck and take them out, saying that ,even a well trained individual that is unarmed does not really stand the best chance when he is up against 4 drugged up and hungry tik heads.

Looking at the clip again and again, I firmly believe the cyclist acted and responded immensely well and quite perfectly.

 

On our last session with the late great Eddie Dorey last year, he made it very clear that once you have defended yourself and have a chance to get away and run, or simply stay calm to avoid any conflict, you have done really well for yourself

[Ed-Zulu]

My sentiments exactly. I am glad there are those like us out there. Ride safe out there.

Malcolm Fox is a hero; for his presence of mind during this situation. Staying calm during a potentially violent attack. His actions in this situation needs no further gung-ho analysis.

 

The scumbag is behind bars because of Malcolm Fox, because he stayed calm the rest of you down south can ride in peace!

 

I salute you SIR!

[kosmonooit]

Good points colourblind, even if you do ride armed, you must be trained in self defence, and practice. Worst case scenario is you fumble and end up dead, and another firearm ends up in the hands of criminals.

 

Could pepper spray helped? not against a gun pointed at you I guess.

[Blackbeard]

Malcolm Fox is a hero; for his presence of mind during this situation. Staying calm during a potentially violent attack. His actions in this situation needs no further gung-ho analysis.

 

The scumbag is behind bars because of Malcolm Fox, because he stayed calm the rest of you down south can ride in peace!

 

I salute you SIR!

 

I would feel safer on the trails with guys like Malcolm, than armed cyclists who have been mentally enacting confrontational situations and preparing themselves to "engage multiple perps" whether or not their belief in their abilities is real or not.

 

That is FUBAR just waiting to happen.

[rouxtjie]

I would feel safer on the trails with guys like Malcolm, than armed cyclists who have been mentally enacting confrontational situations and preparing themselves to "engage multiple perps" whether or not their belief in their abilities is real or not.

 

That is FUBAR just waiting to happen.

Agreed...If someone is packing he/she can go and ride by themselves...I don't care what training he/she has, what army they served in or experience they have. They will be putting my life in danger...no thanks

[Fruity]

According to News24.... "Western Cape police spokesman Andre Traut has confirmed all three of the men have been arrested and charged with robbery."