Dopers suck

[Patchelicious]

Heh. No surprises. I remember clearly the Barberton MTN race in, or must have been 2009 or so, maybe 08, I was doing the marathon and there was an Ultra. Caught up with a gasping Sean Mackenzie, who was on the Ultra...now if you know Sean Mac, you know he is a seriously good bike rider and he was properly fit at the time. Anyway, the Ultra guys had 120km of hard riding and the pace of the Max, Kevin, David etc guys had him wide eyed and buggered, I remember him just saying 'there's no way, man, there is just no way'. He knew, as well as I did, that there are certain limits to human performance and those limits had been long surpassed.

Also remember the inaugural Cape Pioneer, where Christoph Sauser was racing with Brendan Behan and dueling it out with the slobs like me and Roan Exelby; the next year, all the 'pros' showed up and once again it was a race of two speeds. CS said to me 'not the same speed as last year', jokingly, but I knew what he meant. 'The Pros' race differently to us mere mortals with our 'pane a agua'.

Best thing to remember in all of this. MTB is a race against yourself. Forget about what the other okes are doing, that's their business.

Dude, Sean Mac would still give most VAs a hard hiding today!

[intern]

Dude, Sean Mac would still give most VAs a hard hiding today!

Hell of a guy, hell of a bike rider - one of the real gents of the sport.

[dre]

Heh. No surprises. I remember clearly the Barberton MTN race in, or must have been 2009 or so, maybe 08, I was doing the marathon and there was an Ultra. Caught up with a gasping Sean Mackenzie, who was on the Ultra...now if you know Sean Mac, you know he is a seriously good bike rider and he was properly fit at the time. Anyway, the Ultra guys had 120km of hard riding and the pace of the Max, Kevin, David etc guys had him wide eyed and buggered, I remember him just saying 'there's no way, man, there is just no way'. He knew, as well as I did, that there are certain limits to human performance and those limits had been long surpassed.

Also remember the inaugural Cape Pioneer, where Christoph Sauser was racing with Brendan Behan and dueling it out with the slobs like me and Roan Exelby; the next year, all the 'pros' showed up and once again it was a race of two speeds. CS said to me 'not the same speed as last year', jokingly, but I knew what he meant. 'The Pros' race differently to us mere mortals with our 'pane a agua'.

Best thing to remember in all of this. MTB is a race against yourself. Forget about what the other okes are doing, that's their business.

 

But that's the thing, it's not. 

The dopers are taking career and sponsorship opportunities away from the clean riders. (not talking about me... but can just imagine how tough it must be to see the doper getting the prize money, sponsors, national colours etc)

[intern]

But that's the thing, it's not. 

The dopers are taking career and sponsorship opportunities away from the clean riders. (not talking about me... but can just imagine how tough it must be to see the doper getting the prize money, sponsors, national colours etc)

 

Well, I'm afraid, if that sort of thing worries you, you are going to be worried....cheats gonna cheat, and so on.

[dre]

Well, I'm afraid, if that sort of thing worries you, you are going to be worried....cheats gonna cheat, and so on.

 

Not worried myself. Just saying it's like running a race against someone that made his prosthetic leg longer than yours

[DieselnDust]

But that's the thing, it's not. 

The dopers are taking career and sponsorship opportunities away from the clean riders. (not talking about me... but can just imagine how tough it must be to see the doper getting the prize money, sponsors, national colours etc)

I always find this argument a bit illogical. If true they must all be doping because the pros seem to always have sponsors. Sure there is a tie ring of sponsors as there is all sports. Sponsors are looking for the best return on investment. That means they will look for the sportsmen and women who are either exceptional or willing to do what it takes to get to the top because that’s what corporates want and identify with. They are not looking for people who hope and pray. They want athletes with a plan. Doping is just on element of a plan and a risk element that is easily managed with exit clauses. Hence I found the whole Oakley, Trek, USPS, thing wit. lance to be a big joke because they knew what was going on. Our local boys sponsors know what’s going on. They are managing the risk just the same.

If no athlete doped then sponsors would be looking only for the exceptional athletes and there’s far fewer of them so therefore fewer sponsors too.

And herein lie the dilemmas ...

[DieselnDust]

Surely these races that don't want to be CSA sanctioned, can still follow SAIDS/WADA rules, invite SAIDS to do in compition tests, and not allow athletes with sanctions to compete.

WADA and it’s affiliates like SAIDS are all part of the IOC. If you non sanctioned then I doubt WADA and therefore SAIDS will want to get involved since they’re interested in policed entrants of the church bazaar two person team sack race. If event isn’t sanctioned then that is all it is really.

Church bazaar organizers will have to come up with their own system of policing. They could apply a “right of admission reserved “ sort of thing but that’s a slippery slope since you could face discrimination charges if it goes too far. Having an event sanctioned brings in line with the IOC mafia and therein lies another run.

What’s the lesser of two evils?

[Squier]

Iesh. So this year Max destroyed the field in the Cullinan to Tonteldoos................and so you wonder.............

 

Wonder no more.

[Andrew Steer]

Heh. No surprises. I remember clearly the Barberton MTN race in, or must have been 2009 or so, maybe 08, I was doing the marathon and there was an Ultra. Caught up with a gasping Sean Mackenzie, who was on the Ultra...now if you know Sean Mac, you know he is a seriously good bike rider and he was properly fit at the time. Anyway, the Ultra guys had 120km of hard riding and the pace of the Max, Kevin, David etc guys had him wide eyed and buggered, I remember him just saying 'there's no way, man, there is just no way'. He knew, as well as I did, that there are certain limits to human performance and those limits had been long surpassed.

Also remember the inaugural Cape Pioneer, where Christoph Sauser was racing with Brendan Behan and dueling it out with the slobs like me and Roan Exelby; the next year, all the 'pros' showed up and once again it was a race of two speeds. CS said to me 'not the same speed as last year', jokingly, but I knew what he meant. 'The Pros' race differently to us mere mortals with our 'pane a agua'.

Best thing to remember in all of this. MTB is a race against yourself. Forget about what the other okes are doing, that's their business.

But Christoph klapped them for decades anyway...

[Dicky DQ]

I always find this argument a bit illogical. If true they must all be doping because the pros seem to always have sponsors. Sure there is a tie ring of sponsors as there is all sports. Sponsors are looking for the best return on investment. That means they will look for the sportsmen and women who are either exceptional or willing to do what it takes to get to the top because that’s what corporates want and identify with. They are not looking for people who hope and pray. They want athletes with a plan. Doping is just on element of a plan and a risk element that is easily managed with exit clauses. Hence I found the whole Oakley, Trek, USPS, thing wit. lance to be a big joke because they knew what was going on. Our local boys sponsors know what’s going on. They are managing the risk just the same.

If no athlete doped then sponsors would be looking only for the exceptional athletes and there’s far fewer of them so therefore fewer sponsors too.

And herein lie the dilemmas ...

I missed this so please confirm. You are saying that by having dopers you have a bigger pool of sponsors, how do you pull this together?

 

Sponsors get involved in sports because the sport aligns with the brand or pitch.

 

From there they look at who puts in the best marketing proposal.

 

But I am open to convincing otherwise.

[Andrew Steer]

You just had to go there... ‍♂

Ironman now own Cape Epic... hopefully they can embrace the Cape Epics life time ban rule 

[DieselnDust]

I missed this so please confirm. You are saying that by having dopers you have a bigger pool of sponsors, how do you pull this together?

Sponsors get involved in sports because the sport aligns with the brand or pitch.

From there they look at who puts in the best marketing proposal.

But I am open to convincing otherwise.

In an ideal world sure but they also look at results, determination and response to sub optimal performance. Sporting goods Brands in sport just move onto the next athlete because sporting goods is their core business and they have to get the marketing value in that sport. Trek didn’t quit making bikes or sponsoring cyclists because Lance confessed.

 

With sponsors where cycling is not a related business there will be a difference value attached to the risks but generally they just move onto another team or athlete. The value of being associated isn’t negatively impacted by doping because it’s easy to move the brand onto another team.

It’s much tougher the last few years to retain sponsors due to slower economic growth so fewer sponsors are lining up to brand . The World Pro Tour is facing its worst period for sponsors not because of doping but purely because of economics. And those that are involved all want to migrate toward the teams and riders that can deliver the performance to keep the brands in the limelight. So do you think they really care deeply about doping? I think not, save for face value and projecting the appropriate image

Edited October 16, 2018 by DieselnDust

[karma]

Ironman now own Cape Epic... hopefully they can embrace the Cape Epics life time ban rule 

 

yeah, Hincapie already proved that rule to be worthless. 

[Andrew Steer]

yeah, Hincapie already proved that rule to be worthless. 

He unfortunately doped before the ruling... David George is in the same boat.

[Squier]

If the technology is there to use lets use it.

I know i am wrong but listen me out here:

To me anything that is Performance enhancing must be banded then. 12 speed bikes should go then.

Your supplements on and off the bike that enhances your performance should go then. .

If epo and the lot is performance enhancers why not use it? 

if you can build a safe bike as light as you want allow it. 

If we want to use stuff in our bottles to make us race harder faster or recover better why not use the best stuff!

 

Don't think I agree. To what extent supplements are performance enhancing is debateable, however, it can definitely not be grouped in the same category as drugs like testosterone, HGH, steroids and EPO.

 

Giving everyone in the pro-peleton free reign with EPO would not be the issue. It'll be managed by team doctors so should theoretically be pretty safe. The issue comes in when this culture starts to fizzle down to the non-pro peletons of the sport. Juniors deciding to dope themselves etc. We've all heard the stories of people not waking up the next morning.

 

The other thing is; imagine one of your kids were keen on cycling and now needed to inject themselves with all kinds of drugs just to have a chance of getting in...

Edited October 16, 2018 by Squier

[Danger Dassie]

Don't think I agree. To what extent supplements are performance enhancing is debateable, however, it can definitely not be grouped in the same category as drugs like testosterone, HGH, steroids and EPO.

 

Giving everyone in the pro-peleton free reign with EPO would not be the issue. It'll be managed by team doctors so should theoretically be pretty safe. The issue comes in when this culture starts to fizzle down to the non-pro peletons of the sport. Juniors deciding to dope themselves etc. We've all heard the stories of people not waking up the next morning.

 

The other thing is; imagine one of your kids were keen on cycling and now needed to inject themselves with all kinds of drugs just to have a chance of getting in...

Nailed it. 

 

In short SS's post is simplistic ***.