Dopers suck

[Jewbacca]

40 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

 

@Irvin85, out of respect of the Classics thread, let's discuss the doping thing further here.

Is it fine if we "pretend to live under a rock" with other sports?

Let's take Rugby for example: is there even close to the same level of scrutiny on doping controls as there is for Athletics and Cycling?

Or, is it a case of us liking the status quo of not labelling Rugby as a dopers sport, thus we don't increase doping control?

Cases for which a final decision has been rendered and a sanction(2019)

-Cycling: 139

-Athletics: 173

-Football: 67

-Weightlifting: 137

-Rugby: 57

-American Football:14

-Baseball: 15

-Bodybuilding: 217

WADA(2019) report attached for context. There might be a later report, but this one was easy to find.

2019_adrv_report_external_final_12_december_2021_0_0.pdf 1.62 MB · 0 downloads

Weren't most of those 57 rugby convictions done at school boy Craven Week? 

There is definitely an argument for stricter controls in many sports.

I still maintain (and have done so for a long time) that 'proper advanced' doping no longer involves drugs and external supplements, but gene splicing and other genetic modifications that allow the human body to perform 'naturally' but better than it would naturally.

Kids on roids is so 90's and/or Brakpan these days.

[DieselnDust]

43 minutes ago, NotSoBigBen said:

'Cisgender' I despair for the human race, yes just my opinion but anyway. 

there are just too many WTF's in here to comment on effectlively. So i'll keep munching on my cisgender tuna sandwich

[Irvin85]

10 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Weren't most of those 57 rugby convictions done at school boy Craven Week? 

There is definitely an argument for stricter controls in many sports.

I still maintain (and have done so for a long time) that 'proper advanced' doping no longer involves drugs and external supplements, but gene splicing and other genetic modifications that allow the human body to perform 'naturally' but better than it would naturally.

Kids on roids is so 90's and/or Brakpan these days.

School boy rugby is a big problem. The micro doping is still a thing and if you started with it way early in your career before you turn pro and have a biological passport as required, then there is really no way to pick it up, you will just have insanely great numbers from a early age on. 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Irvin85

[DieselnDust]

8 minutes ago, Irvin85 said:

School boy rugby is a big problem. The micro doping is still a thing and if you started with it way early in your career before you turn pro and have a biological passport as required, then there is really no way to pick it up, you will just have insanely great numbers from a early age on. 

But you will have to maintain your doping and at some point there will be a slip up.....hopefully

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, Vetplant said:

 

@Irvin85, out of respect of the Classics thread, let's discuss the doping thing further here.

Is it fine if we "pretend to live under a rock" with other sports?

Given what was said on the Classics thread, that some cyclists are too good to be doing what they do without doping, here is a snapshot of one ride, from last century, with stage results omitted to keep it shorter. Brag points to the person who can identify the rider.

It's happened in the past, and is happening currently, and will most likely happen again in the future. Once in a generation rider capable of doing it all. It's enjoyable to see it, and doesn't mean they're doping. If they are, who cares... it's still good to watch.

Time period: beginning of March to mid April (7 weeks of racing)
1st - Paris-Nice (again, for the 5th time in a row. Eventually did 7 in a row)
1st - Milan-San Remo
2nd - Criterium International
2nd - De Panne (when it was 3 days)
2nd - De Ronde (marginally behind this years' winner's toppie)
1st - Pais Vasco (a 5 day stage race between the 2 Monuments)
1st - Paris Roubaix
5th - Fleche Wallone
12th - Liege-Bastogne-Liege

[Underachiever]

44 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Weren't most of those 57 rugby convictions done at school boy Craven Week? 

There is definitely an argument for stricter controls in many sports.

I still maintain (and have done so for a long time) that 'proper advanced' doping no longer involves drugs and external supplements, but gene splicing and other genetic modifications that allow the human body to perform 'naturally' but better than it would naturally.

Kids on roids is so 90's and/or Brakpan these days.

Brakpan, Benoni, Boksburg - also known as the Bermoerde Triangle!!!

Edited April 19, 2023 by Underachiever
spelling

[Frosty]

3 minutes ago, Underachiever said:

Brakpan, Benoni, Boksburg - also known as the Bermoerde Triangle!!!

Brakpan, Boskburg and Nigel, aka Boknaaipan

[Vetplant]

11 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Given what was said on the Classics thread, that some cyclists are too good to be doing what they do without doping, here is a snapshot of one ride, from last century, with stage results omitted to keep it shorter. Brag points to the person who can identify the rider.

It's happened in the past, and is happening currently, and will most likely happen again in the future. Once in a generation rider capable of doing it all. It's enjoyable to see it, and doesn't mean they're doping. If they are, who cares... it's still good to watch.

Time period: beginning of March to mid April (7 weeks of racing)
1st - Paris-Nice (again, for the 5th time in a row. Eventually did 7 in a row)
1st - Milan-San Remo
2nd - Criterium International
2nd - De Panne (when it was 3 days)
2nd - De Ronde (marginally behind this years' winner's toppie)
1st - Pais Vasco (a 5 day stage race between the 2 Monuments)
1st - Paris Roubaix
5th - Fleche Wallone
12th - Liege-Bastogne-Liege

Without checking, I wanted to say Merckx, but that is too obvious.

So from my investigations, I'm guessing Sean Kelly, 1986?

[Yyyy]

24 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Given what was said on the Classics thread, that some cyclists are too good to be doing what they do without doping, here is a snapshot of one ride, from last century, with stage results omitted to keep it shorter. Brag points to the person who can identify the rider.

It's happened in the past, and is happening currently, and will most likely happen again in the future. Once in a generation rider capable of doing it all. It's enjoyable to see it, and doesn't mean they're doping. If they are, who cares... it's still good to watch.

 

I think the clean ones and spectators wanting clean sport actually care.

The reason why top-end sports are so appealing is because you get to witness incredible displays of strength, endurance, and other exceptional talents performed by athletes. However, if these athletes are achieving these feats through the use of performance-enhancing drugs, then it diminishes the value of their accomplishments.

If I were to lose my belief that these athletes are truly exceptional, then I would lose interest in watching them. While it is true that even with doping, it takes a great deal of hard work and talent to reach the top, I do not want to question the authenticity of their results. It is disheartening to think that someone could win simply because they out-doped their competition.

[Frosty]

33 minutes ago, Vetplant said:

Without checking, I wanted to say Merckx, but that is too obvious.

So from my investigations, I'm guessing Sean Kelly, 1986?

 

[Underachiever]

40 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Brakpan, Boskburg and Nigel, aka Boknaaipan

Making an interesting Venn Diagram.... 

[splat]

Cycling is alive and well in Columbia 

https://road.cc/content/news/epo-doper-jarlinson-pantano-makes-surprise-return-300683

[dave303e]

17 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Weren't most of those 57 rugby convictions done at school boy Craven Week? 

There is definitely an argument for stricter controls in many sports.

I still maintain (and have done so for a long time) that 'proper advanced' doping no longer involves drugs and external supplements, but gene splicing and other genetic modifications that allow the human body to perform 'naturally' but better than it would naturally.

Kids on roids is so 90's and/or Brakpan these days.

It's worse than that. Craven week was the only schoolboy rugby festival/games where testing was done and the one year half of all rugby doping bans came from that single tournament.

As for the gene splicing, the same way you can breed a dog or a cow or a horse to perform better. Naturally it is happening in a multitude of sports. How many top runners breed with other runners, how many triathletes, same for cycling, same for a lot of sports. Mainly due to social trends where that is who they interact with. But you just need to reproduce that a few generations in a row and you should legally see a performance increase. I can see it with our cows, the fiddling done with who breeds with what and the quality of animal and the traits around it go through the roof. Same goes for the working jack russels bread on the farm. Certain lines make the most amazing pets, other lines bread for hunting purposes are the reason we don't have rats or snakes and the pigeon population is dwindling.

The biggest single improvement in athletic capability in the last 10 years has been running shoes... I think there is only 1 running record that has not been broken since the introduction of carbon plated running shoes. From 100m to 100miles ladies and mens records.

[Koos Likkewaan 2]

17 hours ago, Frosty said:

Brakpan, Boskburg and Nigel, aka Boknaaipan

Stadig nou ! 

I live in the first one, work in the second one, and grew up in the third one !

[Koos Likkewaan 2]

17 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Weren't most of those 57 rugby convictions done at school boy Craven Week? 

There is definitely an argument for stricter controls in many sports.

I still maintain (and have done so for a long time) that 'proper advanced' doping no longer involves drugs and external supplements, but gene splicing and other genetic modifications that allow the human body to perform 'naturally' but better than it would naturally.

Kids on roids is so 90's and/or Brakpan these days.

Having been involved in schoolboy rugby for many years, I can safely and with some confidence/evidence say that this is not even close to being a Brakpan problem as it is a "fancy" school problem.

[dave303e]

14 minutes ago, Koos Likkewaan 2 said:

Having been involved in schoolboy rugby for many years, I can safely and with some confidence/evidence say that this is not even close to being a Brakpan problem as it is a "fancy" school problem.

comes back to money, 50% scholarship for rugby at a fancy school is R150k a year which is nearly triple minimum wage for a year...