WTF CSA?

[gtr1]

So a training partner I know enters a road event last weekend.

Vet age cat....but they then have to start 10min later with ladies. So he decides to ride Elite no problem you wld think, I have done it several times myself.

 

If you want to get your arse kicked, join Elites. NO? I call it suicidal tendencies anyhow... Its our choice to ride against the laaities or not? For the last 5 yrs doing this same event this is what we did no issue. 

Come to the finish, ends up being 2nd "ELITE" the guys in front 3 x U23 riders and 1 elite...

So he gets DQ'd as he is riding elites with a vets licence....

 

BUT in mountain biking a PRO that's 30 plus will take your position, say 3rd Elite and also ,1st subvet, very GREY areas if you ask me...anyhoo funny how the two scenes rulings go.

This does seem strange and may be a local decision taken by the event. Also may have to do with which event he entered. I have had some in some small races. Entered 1 cat, but decided on line to race another for a better harder ride due to numbers. Was told on the line that I would not qualify for prizes.

 

Mtb'ing different in that you don't start in age categories. All together and batched based on seeding.

 

As a vet, you are allowed to race 'down' in a category. But not up. So can enter and race elites instead of age category. Nolan Hoffman and others a good example. Qualifies as a vet 30 but races elite. I do think there is a UCI rule though, that if you have raced in a lower age category during the year, then you are not allowed to compete at worlds in your age. But that may have changed.

[gtr1]

I may be wrong, but I think a lot of CSA funding problems stem from the MTB World Cup event in KZN a few years back. Some sponsors bailed, or didn't live up to commitment, and in the end CSA had to foot the bill to host the event of a good few million.

[kosmonooit]

What role did CSA have in the Stellies round of the UCI XCO this year? (if any)

[DieselnDust]

So a training partner I know enters a road event last weekend.

Vet age cat....but they then have to start 10min later with ladies. So he decides to ride Elite no problem you wld think, I have done it several times myself.

 

If you want to get your arse kicked, join Elites. NO? I call it suicidal tendencies anyhow... Its our choice to ride against the laaities or not? For the last 5 yrs doing this same event this is what we did no issue. 

Come to the finish, ends up being 2nd "ELITE" the guys in front 3 x U23 riders and 1 elite...

So he gets DQ'd as he is riding elites with a vets licence....

 

BUT in mountain biking a PRO that's 30 plus will take your position, say 3rd Elite and also ,1st subvet, very GREY areas if you ask me...anyhoo funny how the two scenes rulings go.

 

Well there’s nothing stupid about that decision. Your friend decided to gain an advantage over the other vets by startling with a faster group. Doesn’t look like the commissaires were stupid. They enforced the rule which is what they there for

[Rolling Stone]

Just so interesting to see that there are still cyclists that cannot figure out that unless events are sanctioned the local regions and CSA lose a very big part of their income stream. They will rather sit and bitch if CSA(or the region) cannot support our elite riders, and then bitch again when CSA try to get races sanctioned.

 

I think that most cyclists pay the entry fee a thinking that races are sanctioned and part of their hard earned cash is at least going to CSA and the region 

 

I am yet to see a race organiser that will openly publish the fact that their race is not sanctioned on their race info and entry portal. They will surely lose riders.

75% of CSA members are not licensed, but want the added comfort of knowing they have that aditional medical cover when things go wrong on race.. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Rolling Stone

[RaymondC]

Well there’s nothing stupid about that decision. Your friend decided to gain an advantage over the other vets by startling with a faster group. Doesn’t look like the commissaires were stupid. They enforced the rule which is what they there for

 

You missing the 2nd "Elite" part of the argument by entering that category his Vet result is forfeited, so the Vets 10min back will still be legit. The only solution is to use category style of racing nowadays because the officials change their minds every 5 minutes.  

 

This "fine print" racing popped its head up when a VET won the local PPA league and got DQ'd due to him being to old... Sad when he's working full time behind a desk and beating the youngsters. 

[gtr1]

What role did CSA have in the Stellies round of the UCI XCO this year? (if any)

Being a UCI event the event would be sanctioned and as such they would have provided commissaires etc. I think the event was organized by the Cape Epic 'owners/organizers'

[gtr1]

You missing the 2nd "Elite" part of the argument by entering that category his Vet result is forfeited, so the Vets 10min back will still be legit. The only solution is to use category style of racing nowadays because the officials change their minds every 5 minutes.  

This "fine print" racing popped its head up when a VET won the local PPA league and got DQ'd due to him being to old... Sad when he's working full time behind a desk and beating the youngsters.

 

He may have finished 2nd but he did not enter that event. If he had entered elites, even as a vet, he would have qualified.

 

But yes, category racing may be a good idea. Regardless of age.

 

As for the previous reference to mtb'ing, if you were seeded B and then started with A, you would also be DQ'ed.

 

Also interesting you mention the local PPA league, seeing this is a CSA thread, and CSA being slated and some comments about PPA being so much better. But here they apply similar rules.

[Rolling Stone]

Here is Nicky's post, for anyone interested

 

https://www.facebook.com/nicola.giliomee/posts/10155877314776033

 

https://www.facebook.com/nicola.giliomee/posts/10155877314776033

I think the  race organiser was warned, I am wondering if they made the effort to inform riders that the race was not sanctioned and CSA was going to fine Licensed riders that took part. imo the race organiser should pay the fines.

 

A quote from a post by Pure Savage on another thread before the race. 

 

What BS, CSA can suck a bag. 

 

I would love to see them actually do their job and cross reference riders who do Karoo to Coast to their own data base. As event not sanctioned event not going to send them a handy Excel spread sheet. Ain’t gonna happen. 

 

We just got too used to CSA making noises and not acting. I think those days are over. Is that not what we have all been hoping and waiting for?

[Eugene]

You missing the 2nd "Elite" part of the argument by entering that category his Vet result is forfeited, so the Vets 10min back will still be legit. The only solution is to use category style of racing nowadays because the officials change their minds every 5 minutes.

 

This "fine print" racing popped its head up when a VET won the local PPA league and got DQ'd due to him being to old... Sad when he's working full time behind a desk and beating the youngsters.

These things are not only limited to cycling.

 

My 11 year old daughter had to compete in the u16 age group for 200m breaststroke at the SA Levels Champs as there was no other swimmers of her age.

 

She ended up fastest in qualifying. She was told that if she won, there would be no medal because she was out of her age group.

[gogo@]

Was plenty warning from CSA and K2C that the race was not sanctioned and licensed riders (but not CSA 'members') were not permitted under CSA rules to enter. No need to try blame K2C organizers.  Like CTCT they have been open about this since they stopped being sanctioned. CSA lost the case against the PPA and that means no race organizer has to run their event under CSA rules, but CSA still makes out that they do.  The only people directly affected by this are the licensed riders due to the UCI "forbidden events" rule.  And we are not alone in SA with this battle.

[Rolling Stone]

Was plenty warning from CSA and K2C that the race was not sanctioned and licensed riders (but not CSA 'members') were not permitted under CSA rules to enter. No need to try blame K2C organizers.  Like CTCT they have been open about this since they stopped being sanctioned. CSA lost the case against the PPA and that means no race organizer has to run their event under CSA rules, but CSA still makes out that they do.  The only people directly affected by this are the licensed riders due to the UCI "forbidden events" rule.  And we are not alone in SA with this battle.

I have just been to their site And I cannot find anything that indicates that the race is not sanctioned.

You say they were open about it since thet stopped being sanctioned.

I doubt they send out a notice to say that they have made the decision not to sanction.

 

Something like please support our race and cause although we have decided we do not like CSA and will not support Cycling SA and the initiatives of CSA in our region to develop cycling.

Nothing wrong with that, but be open about it and accept that the numbers will be lower.

[Milkman]

Was plenty warning from CSA and K2C that the race was not sanctioned and licensed riders (but not CSA 'members') were not permitted under CSA rules to enter. No need to try blame K2C organizers.  Like CTCT they have been open about this since they stopped being sanctioned. CSA lost the case against the PPA and that means no race organizer has to run their event under CSA rules, but CSA still makes out that they do.  The only people directly affected by this are the licensed riders due to the UCI "forbidden events" rule.  And we are not alone in SA with this battle.

Yea , have to agree with Rolling Stone here.

I also haven’t seen plenty of warnings from K2C regarding the race not being sanctioned ?

I might have missed it though ??

[dirtchick]

I think the  race organiser was warned, I am wondering if they made the effort to inform riders that the race was not sanctioned and CSA was going to fine Licensed riders that took part. imo the race organiser should pay the fines.shame on her. As a licensed rider she should know the rules. Typical poor south african attitude

 

A quote from a post by Pure Savage on another thread before the race. 

 

What BS, CSA can suck a bag. [/size]I would love to see them actually do their job and cross reference riders who do Karoo to Coast to their own data base. As event not sanctioned event not going to send them a handy Excel spread sheet. Ain’t gonna happen. [/size]

 

We just got too used to CSA making noises and not acting. I think those days are over. Is that not what we have all been hoping and waiting for?

[gtr1]

K2C don't want to be sanctioned, because then they can allow Kevin Evans to ride.

[Danger Dassie]

Just so interesting to see that there are still cyclists that cannot figure out that unless events are sanctioned the local regions and CSA lose a very big part of their income stream. They will rather sit and bitch if CSA(or the region) cannot support our elite riders, and then bitch again when CSA try to get races sanctioned.

 

I think that most cyclists pay the entry fee a thinking that races are sanctioned and part of their hard earned cash is at least going to CSA and the region 

 

I am yet to see a race organiser that will openly publish the fact that their race is not sanctioned on their race info and entry portal. They will surely lose riders.

75% of CSA members are not licensed, but want the added comfort of knowing they have that aditional medical cover when things go wrong on race.. 

It's interesting to see that administrators are so tone deaf and lack engagement, yet you wonder why membership is on the decline while the actual sport is growing? 

Because you guys only show action on low hanging fruit, it makes it difficult to support an organisation on that basis. The national body and some provinces have a broken trust and reputation.

Think about it, the way this 'forbidden race rule' is being handled is only setting CSA up for failure and more resistance, whilst killing off amateur racing.

If 75% of CSA members are not holders of racing licences, then how does that really affect your income stream?

How many members actually make use if the additional medical cover?