Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[DieselnDust]

4 minutes ago, lenzman said:

It is not ridiculous to keep going straight based on your judgement call

I don't drive like a moron.

Defensive driving tactics call for spacial awareness and scanning for escape route at all times. If there are none then the escape route is slow down and create the space. With space accidents can be avoided 99% of the time. The truck driver certainly did not adopt these tactics, but instead applied pressure to group by driving as close as possible.

In the case of the deceased (not sure if I should share his name), based on eye witness accounts and the people he was riding with, the door was flung open as their group came past. He had no time to think about escape routes, the door clipped him and he fell into the road. The garbage truck was tail gating the group very closely for a few hundred meters already and due to the psychological pressure of the truck's presence the group was line astern and hugging the line of cars to give the truck space. The opening door clipped him, he fell in to the road and the garbage truck was too close to avoid the incident and ran over the deceased.

Please also demonstrate your strategy of training to cycle or drive into an accident. I would dearly love you learn from you. Video's would be helpful

[waveduke]

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Edited Monday at 04:12 PM by waveduke
Was already discussed

[lenzman]

1 minute ago, DieselnDust said:

Please also demonstrate your strategy of training to cycle or drive into an accident. I would dearly love you learn from you. Video's would be helpful

I was not recommending training!

It is a judgement call you may have to make in a split second on your bike or in your motor vehicle.

You have clearly become hostile in this discussion so I am not going to engage anymore.

Thank you for the detail about the actual accident. I feel very bad for what happened to the cyclist and like others I am feeling very weary about my next ride.

[Thomo]

[DieselnDust]

40 minutes ago, lenzman said:

I was not recommending training!

It is a judgement call you may have to make in a split second on your bike or in your motor vehicle.

You have clearly become hostile in this discussion so I am not going to engage anymore.

Thank you for the detail about the actual accident. I feel very bad for what happened to the cyclist and like others I am feeling very weary about my next ride.

So how does one learn to commit to the accident. I have fairly advanced driver training and the area where this applies is incredibly narrow and typically associated with very high speed accidents. Basically all collision avoidance scenarios begin with attempting to lengthen the pathway to a collision that ultimately allows avoidance of, or sufficient reduction of speed to minimise the energy involved. This includes combinations and or exclusively the tools of braking, and steering with the aim of creating space to allow time to think assess and act. When all of the above are no longer options, brace for impact by relaxing as much as possible so that the seat, belts and other safety mechanisms can absorb your impact with minimal injury.

you brought up a dumb suggestion so I’d like to see you defend it. How does a cyclist train to cycle into an accident intentionally….?

[splat]

2 hours ago, Thomo said:

They have been trying to promote this since the '70's

Edited Monday at 06:27 PM by splat

[Mamil]

2 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

I don't drive like a moron.

Defensive driving tactics call for spacial awareness and scanning for escape route at all times. If there are none then the escape route is slow down and create the space. With space accidents can be avoided 99% of the time. The truck driver certainly did not adopt these tactics, but instead applied pressure to group by driving as close as possible.

In the case of the deceased (not sure if I should share his name), based on eye witness accounts and the people he was riding with, the door was flung open as their group came past. He had no time to think about escape routes, the door clipped him and he fell into the road. The garbage truck was tail gating the group very closely for a few hundred meters already and due to the psychological pressure of the truck's presence the group was line astern and hugging the line of cars to give the truck space. The opening door clipped him, he fell in to the road and the garbage truck was too close to avoid the incident and ran over the deceased.

Please also demonstrate your strategy of training to cycle or drive into an accident. I would dearly love you learn from you. Video's would be helpful

What a horrible horrible thing. I actually can't think about it for too long. Makes me feel ill. And very scared. 

[Andreas_187]

3 hours ago, lenzman said:

Would you swerve for a pedestrian or wildlife in your motor vehicle?

If a door opens right in front of you at 30km/h you may only have time to close your eyes

[Murrob]

10 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

If a door opens right in front of you at 30km/h you may only have time to close your eyes

Yeah, gotta say, if I’m stuck in that situation without knowing what’s behind me. I’m hitting the door and praying for the best.

[Thomo]

34 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

If a door opens right in front of you at 30km/h you may only have time to close your eyes

It's the door that's flung open from your blindspot as you're passing that doesn't even give you time to close your eyes.

[V18]

Some of the newer cars I've passed on my commute have little mirror sensor alarms that alert drivers something is approaching. Pretty cool feature. My strategy for passing parked roadside cars: I wear a spieëltjie on my glasses (take a look clip on) and I ride enough in the road to block cars behind me. Works OK as the stretch I'm passing is slightly downhill and I move at about 45-50km/h there. Only about 1km.

Despite all this, I have about 1 oh sh*t moment every semester. 

[SwissVan]

5 hours ago, NotSoBigBen said:

Look I don't know about the rest of you guys but I certainly don't have Audie Murphy skills like some seem to ...I don't even know how I'd react in most real emergency situations. 

In fact how do you train to 'ride into doors' .... The mind boggles!

 

Yep, instinct will make 99.9% of people swerve away. 
World champion downhillers make up the remaining 0.01%

[lenzman]

11 hours ago, Murrob said:

Yeah, gotta say, if I’m stuck in that situation without knowing what’s behind me. I’m hitting the door and praying for the best.

Interesting technique suggested in this article:

if you lean into the car whose door is opening, you can also attempt to slow yourself down before you make impact with the door

https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/5-helpful-safety-reminders-for-cyclists-who-ride-in-the-city/

Deciding to purchase a firearm and preparing for an eventuality is a choice and mindset. My opinion is the same principle applies here.

[Mamil]

21 minutes ago, lenzman said:

Interesting technique suggested in this article:

if you lean into the car whose door is opening, you can also attempt to slow yourself down before you make impact with the door

https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/5-helpful-safety-reminders-for-cyclists-who-ride-in-the-city/

Deciding to purchase a firearm and preparing for an eventuality is a choice and mindset. My opinion is the same principle applies here.

I remember an Eddie Murphy routine from the 80's talking about airline safety protocols and the brace position - he says what those really mean is "Put your head between your legs and kiss your @ss goodbye". We want to feel there's something we can do in a situation like this because that's comforting but in reality, if the door opens late and you're doing 30 or 40kmph --- the fingers won't even have closed on the brakes when impact happens

[DieselnDust]

16 hours ago, Shebeen said:

Is it just me or is the annual anti cyclists brigade more vocal than ever? it's not even feb yet and it seems to have ramped up already to 1st weekend of march "THEY MUST PAY ROADTAX" levels.

on the tax issue.....

It so stupid I believe these commentators must have nothing better to do with their time. What's a cyclist to do? Drop by the next Astron Energy for a litre of petrol?

Or my personal favourite,..."They must have license discs!!"

What Tax exactly are we supposed to pay? VAT is covered, Income Tax is covered, generally above 36%. The only tax not being paid are those built into the Retail Fuel Price. So its almost like the motorist is saying, "I pay tax to Road accident fund, so here you go lets have an accident." Lets- make-those-taxes-work-for-me kind of stupidity

Most of the tax commentators are likely stay at home or business owners trying their damn best to avoid paying the very tax they try to impose on cyclist;  misery loves company I guess. There's just zero constructive narrative on creating an enabling environment, instead the policy leaders and advocates want to rely on peoples altruism to do the right thing. And whats ore insane is that they expect this altruism to come from a narrative very few motorists actually see.. 

Run a poll amongst your friends and family and ask them if they know what the "1m Rule" is.....

[DieselnDust]

50 minutes ago, lenzman said:

Interesting technique suggested in this article:

if you lean into the car whose door is opening, you can also attempt to slow yourself down before you make impact with the door

https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/5-helpful-safety-reminders-for-cyclists-who-ride-in-the-city/

Deciding to purchase a firearm and preparing for an eventuality is a choice and mindset. My opinion is the same principle applies here.

nicely cherry picked there... 

Here's the whole paragraph

"1. Avoid the door zone

“Car doors are the most insidious hazard facing the city rider,” Bezdek writes. “Opening doors swing directly into the space that bikes occupy, and they’re difficult to anticipate. The only way to avoid getting doored is to assume that every single door in your path will open.

Always leave a door-sized space when passing any stopped car—not just parked ones. If you’re forced to squeeze through the door zone, slow down to walking speed and look for warning signs: brake lights, taxi cab vacancy lights, and the side-to-side rocking of passengers getting ready to scoot out.”

As with most things when you’re on your bike, it’s better to always be on the lookout and proactive about seeing problems before they arise. While it would be nice if more drivers checked to see if a cyclist was coming before they swing open their door, the fact is that most drivers simply don’t think of it and it’s up to you to keep yourself safe.

A dooring accident can be notoriously hard to avoid, but if you have any time at all to react, the best thing to do is try to quickly slow down as much as possible to reduce the impact. Avoid swerving unless you know the lane is absolutely empty (you don’t want to make a bad situation worse); instead, if you lean into the car whose door is opening, you can also attempt to slow yourself down before you make impact with the door."

 

Your quote is from the bit in italics and that talks to all other options having been evaluated, some executed but no favourable outcome and then you brace for impact by choosing your landing which will be the "V" between the A-pillar and the door frame, maybe the driver if they're getting out (I have that t-shirt)

All of this assumes you have seen it coming which is not applicable in this St James 25/01/25 case.