Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[Mamil]

4 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

From my days commuting by motorcycle to Cape Town ... lane splitting on the N1.

 

Anything more than 15km/h faster than the slower traffic became a gamble.  Simply not enough time to re-act when somebody turns without indicating, or any such dangerous move.

 

Commuting by bicycle I try to use this same approach.

 

Passing parked cars .... avoid as far as possible, but where I have to :

- only 15km/h, or

- move over and own the lane ... BUT, this I only do for very short sections where absolutely needed.

 

 

We KNOW the risks ....

 

We KNOW most car drivers are too distracted to give a damn ....

 

 

RIDE TO SURVIVE !!

Increasingly I am opting to own the lane - moving over to give space seems more likely to me to be an invitation to disregard my presence and squeeze past.

I also find I'm choosing to do less riding on the road these days which is a loss for me because I love it - Sundays generally and I'm more likely to be heading north out to Malmesbury than through the south and peninsula.

[Shebeen]

19 hours ago, Headshot said:

Of course we don't get to see what the motorist did to incur that reaction...

I followed up and asked the original poster of this video. This was his reply:

We started taking a video due to them not riding in single file as seen in the above post and the one guy saw this and decided to get aggressive

 

he got mad due to us recording. A bit of an overreaction unfortunately

 

Can't really add much more to that, I find it hard to believe that was all that happened. Personally I've never flipped the bird at any motorists while cycling, nor have I had a cyclist pull one at me.

 

Edited January 28, 2025 by Shebeen

[droo]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

nicely cherry picked there... 

Here's the whole paragraph

"1. Avoid the door zone

“Car doors are the most insidious hazard facing the city rider,” Bezdek writes. “Opening doors swing directly into the space that bikes occupy, and they’re difficult to anticipate. The only way to avoid getting doored is to assume that every single door in your path will open.

Always leave a door-sized space when passing any stopped car—not just parked ones. If you’re forced to squeeze through the door zone, slow down to walking speed and look for warning signs: brake lights, taxi cab vacancy lights, and the side-to-side rocking of passengers getting ready to scoot out.”

As with most things when you’re on your bike, it’s better to always be on the lookout and proactive about seeing problems before they arise. While it would be nice if more drivers checked to see if a cyclist was coming before they swing open their door, the fact is that most drivers simply don’t think of it and it’s up to you to keep yourself safe.

A dooring accident can be notoriously hard to avoid, but if you have any time at all to react, the best thing to do is try to quickly slow down as much as possible to reduce the impact. Avoid swerving unless you know the lane is absolutely empty (you don’t want to make a bad situation worse); instead, if you lean into the car whose door is opening, you can also attempt to slow yourself down before you make impact with the door."

 

Your quote is from the bit in italics and that talks to all other options having been evaluated, some executed but no favourable outcome and then you brace for impact by choosing your landing which will be the "V" between the A-pillar and the door frame, maybe the driver if they're getting out (I have that t-shirt)

All of this assumes you have seen it coming which is not applicable in this St James 25/01/25 case.

First prize, if you have to hit something, is using the driver as a cushion. 

But this is more down to blind luck than planning.

I prefer to just stay out of the opening radius of the door where I can - but even this isn't always possible, nor does it account for coupe doors.

[Shebeen]

31 minutes ago, droo said:

First prize, if you have to hit something, is using the driver as a cushion. 

But this is more down to blind luck than planning.

I prefer to just stay out of the opening radius of the door where I can - but even this isn't always possible, nor does it account for coupe doors.

People don't realise how rare getting doored is. We're only talking about this one because it ended in a fatality. In this case, the cyclists didn't even avoid the door in the end either.

 

You can definitely have your spidey sense around looking into cars when you're in a confined road and always knowing if there are any vehicles behind you incase you need to swerve out. Experience and good techniques will help prevent these things a little bit. but not as much as drivers not opening their doors into oncoming traffic

 

[lenzman]

11 minutes ago, Shebeen said:

People don't realise how rare getting doored is.

I respectfully disagree.

This was the 2nd dooring incident on main road that I am aware of in the last couple of months.

The first one in December happened here and I was on scene with paramedics and the fire brigade.

Happened around 11h00 on Sunday, 1 December 2024

Edited January 28, 2025 by lenzman

[Headshot]

18 hours ago, Andreas_187 said:

Please, let's not be ridiculous. You can't train yourself to ride head on into a door. It is not a door opening 20 metres in front of you. The door is opening so close in front of you that you wouldn't be able to react either way. Where you subsequently land is pot luck

Okay, you just want to argue. Should I post twice too? Nah, you win.

[Headshot]

I've never been doored but I have had a car pull out right in front of me from a side street. I didn't even have time to brake and I did a full summersault over the car. I landed safely with negligible injuries. Had I managed to swerve who knows what might have happened.

All I meant with my suggestion that you need to consciously train yourself not to swerve in certain situations such as - narrow road with parked cars and following traffic, roads with a high likelihood of  pedestrians crossing the road and so on. I didn't say this was the solution but rather that its part of defensive riding, which includes checking what's coming from behind as often as possible. 

Some of you wallies just want to argue about nothing and deliberately infer your own nonsense interpretations onto what is said for effect. 

[Thomo]

35 minutes ago, lenzman said:

I respectfully disagree.

This was the 2nd dooring incident on main road that I am aware of in the last couple of months.

The first one in December happened here and I was on scene with paramedics and the fire brigade.

Happened around 11h00 on Sunday, 1 December 2024

Wasn't the tragic loss in Sea Point not so long ago also a door.?

I too got taken out by a door in Green Point in 2016.

Also seen a few others over the years, not to mention the near missed.

So yes, it happens more often than you realise with differing resultant damage.

Edited January 28, 2025 by Thomo

[NGM]

1 hour ago, ChrisF said:

 

From my days commuting by motorcycle to Cape Town ... lane splitting on the N1.

 

Anything more than 15km/h faster than the slower traffic became a gamble.  Simply not enough time to re-act when somebody turns without indicating, or any such dangerous move.

 

Commuting by bicycle I try to use this same approach.

 

Passing parked cars .... avoid as far as possible, but where I have to :

- only 15km/h, or

- move over and own the lane ... BUT, this I only do for very short sections where absolutely needed.

 

 

We KNOW the risks ....

 

We KNOW most car drivers are too distracted to give a damn ....

 

 

RIDE TO SURVIVE !!

Mate if you give the cars as big a gap as you use for your line spacing on this forum you'll always be safe. 😉

[Milosh]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

I followed up and asked the original poster of this video. This was his reply:

We started taking a video due to them not riding in single file as seen in the above post and the one guy saw this and decided to get aggressive

 

he got mad due to us recording. A bit of an overreaction unfortunately

 

Can't really add much more to that, I find it hard to believe that was all that happened. Personally I've never flipped the bird at any motorists while cycling, nor have I had a cyclist pull one at me.

 

I call BS ,  No one gets that mad at someone filming them, something was said 

The filming started when he was already chasing them  

South Africans cannot engage with each other well in traffic, try telling anyone anything on the road and you get a poor reaction, 

• Wear your seat belt.
• Use you indicator 
• Slow down 

In short, I can't see picking out anyone's road behavior ending well, Cyclist taxi, 4Tuner.

Edited January 28, 2025 by Milosh

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Shebeen said:

I followed up and asked the original poster of this video. This was his reply:

We started taking a video due to them not riding in single file as seen in the above post and the one guy saw this and decided to get aggressive

 

he got mad due to us recording. A bit of an overreaction unfortunately

 

Can't really add much more to that, I find it hard to believe that was all that happened. Personally I've never flipped the bird at any motorists while cycling, nor have I had a cyclist pull one at me.

 

The motorist is always innocent. 

How it likely went down:

Group of cyclist are riding down Main road Muizenberg Lakeside. Motorist gets irritated because they are not how he imagines single file to be (Which is something akin to a TTT in the TOur de France).

Motorist decides to teach cyclists a lesson by weaving toward thm pinning them against the curb and forcing his view of single file upon them. 

Cyclists then get annoyed as one does when flight or fright mode kicks in.

motorists then probably hoots further antagonising the group.

Previously sub 3 rider then decides this is a goo time for some motor paced intervals to deliver a message. Message is then successfully delivered.

Motorists still gets stuck in Main Road traffic and cycling group passes him and his whatever-you- want-to- call- her who proceed to slap each other on the back for a job well done.

meanwhile, a little further back down the road, a cyclist has died because the same motorcentric attitude to road use has resulted in road closure, inconvenience to thousands and misery to a family who won't see their father again.

all the while, online crusaders are offering ideas of how to train to crash into car doors.....

I feel a Topgear episode reboot coming along

[ChrisF]

54 minutes ago, NickGM said:

Mate if you give the cars as big a gap as you use for your line spacing on this forum you'll always be safe. 😉

 

Hiehie .... we all start out with more enthusiasm than skill .... 🤣

 

My gardian angel got a few grey hairs along the way ..... 13 minutes from Bellville to Gardens .... nee jitte, net genade ek het daai fase oorleef.

 

Sadly some friends did pass away, and I got the wake up call I needed.

[NGM]

1 minute ago, ChrisF said:

 

Hiehie .... we all start out with more enthusiasm than skill .... 🤣

 

My gardian angel got a few grey hairs along the way ..... 13 minutes from Bellville to Gardens .... nee jitte, net genade ek het daai fase oorleef.

 

Sadly some friends did pass away, and I got the wake up call I needed.

Meant entirely in jest of course. Please don't change; with so much online vitriol I always find I take a much needed breath or two when reading your posts.

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Headshot said:

I've never been doored but I have had a car pull out right in front of me from a side street. I didn't even have time to brake and I did a full summersault over the car. I landed safely with negligible injuries. Had I managed to swerve who knows what might have happened.

All I meant with my suggestion that you need to consciously train yourself not to swerve in certain situations such as - narrow road with parked cars and following traffic, roads with a high likelihood of  pedestrians crossing the road and so on. I didn't say this was the solution but rather that its part of defensive riding, which includes checking what's coming from behind as often as possible. 

Some of you wallies just want to argue about nothing and deliberately infer your own nonsense interpretations onto what is said for effect. 

I totally agree, swerving isn't always going to get you out of trouble.

The primary action that we all should learn is to assess the risks on a stretch of road and position yourself to minimise that risk.

You will always have a brownaye trying to show you who is boss by tail gating. This will never change until drivers actually get prosecuted for dangerous driving. he prosecutions won't happen if people who have actual footage of this dangerous driving never submit it or lay charges. We're all just to apathetic to bother. Yes the system is coitused, mostly because of a failure to act against taxi behaviour decades ago, but no our roads are a case of if-you-can't-beat-em-join-em and everyone just does as they please.

But back to swerving..... If a bus or truck pulled out of that side road would you have swerved?

Every situation should be discussed and judged on its own merit. 

Edited January 28, 2025 by DieselnDust
corrected "on" to "own"

[NotSoBigBen]

3 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I totally agree, swerving isn't always going to get you out of trouble.

The primary action that we all should learn is to assess the risks on a stretch of road and position yourself to minimise that risk.

You will always have a brownaye trying to show you who is boss by tail gating. This will never change until drivers actually get prosecuted for dangerous driving. he proecutions won't happen if people who have actual footage of this dangerous driving never submit it or lay charges. We're all just to apathetic to bother. Yes the system is coitused, mostly because of a failure to act againt taxi behaviour decades ago, but no our roads are a case of if-you-can't-beat-em-join-em and everyone just does as they please.

But back to swerving..... If a bus or truck pulled out of that side road would you have swerved?

Every situation should be discussed and judged on its on merit. 

*Consults Google for the meaning of some words* 🤪

[Headshot]

12 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I totally agree, swerving isn't always going to get you out of trouble.

The primary action that we all should learn is to assess the risks on a stretch of road and position yourself to minimise that risk.

You will always have a brownaye trying to show you who is boss by tail gating. This will never change until drivers actually get prosecuted for dangerous driving. he prosecutions won't happen if people who have actual footage of this dangerous driving never submit it or lay charges. We're all just to apathetic to bother. Yes the system is coitused, mostly because of a failure to act against taxi behaviour decades ago, but no our roads are a case of if-you-can't-beat-em-join-em and everyone just does as they please.

But back to swerving..... If a bus or truck pulled out of that side road would you have swerved?

Every situation should be discussed and judged on its own merit. 

In this case, I had no time to react at all, so if it was a bus, I'd have slammed into the side at 30km/h. I was just lucky, but it does illustrate that sometimes doing nothing can be the safest way out of trouble.