Motorists vs Cyclists.... again

[DieselnDust]

3 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

wroooonnnggggg .... 

 

 

Or rather, a VERY one sided view.

 

The "van driver" is probably on the clock, and will get an ear full for "taking his time" to finish his work.  I drive a lot for work, and YES I plan for the odd delay, but being deliberately held up by a GROUP of riders is not a nice situation.  I emphasize GROUP, as it is easy enough to pass a single rider when the conditions allow. 

 

 

NOTE - I am NOT condoning the "van driver" breaking the law !!  Just pointing out that "owning the road in a group ride" actually has concequences for others on the road.

 

 

 

O-well, I should know better ..... groups will behave like groups ....irate motorists will keep bad mouthing all cyclists ..... and the next car over a blind rise we will just repeat this series of posts .....

 

And here is exactly the point. A cycling group behaving like a cycling group is traffic. Its the responsibility of me the driver to ensure I pass that traffic safely. it is my duty as the passing vehicle to ensure I followed all the necessary checks before proceeding to overtake. A cyclist being hit from behind is an innocent victim irrespective of whether they flipped the previous driver the bird.

A cyclist being taken out from the side while a motor vehicle is turning left and the cyclist is proceeding straight is an innocent victim because again the motorist failed to abide by the duties prescribed by the road traffic act. Instead the Lwis Hamilton approach to winning GP's is applied and the motorist is declared innocent. being a smiley happy chappies who always says cars first isn't going to keep chappie alive much longer than a bloke flippin gthe bird at every driver because as far as I can tell.

As cyclists we need to get out of the victim blaming mindset. In nearly every case of a cyclist being hit by a motor vehicle its is the motorists fault because they are the vehicle that has not fulfilled the duties required to pass safely. But as I pointed out, this pov doesn't bring people over to braai

[Eddy Gordo]

Agreed, cyclists are traffic, but traffic that is required to keep left and not ride abreast. No ways 4 people are overtaking. 

Do you give way to faster traffic by moving to the left when you driving a car?

https://bicyclesouth.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/SOUTH-AFRICAN-RULES-OF-THE-ROAD.pdf

Duties'of'cyclists 3.!(1)!A!cyclist!riding!on!a!public!road!must— (a)!if!the!road!has!a!pedal!cycle!lane,!ride!only!in!the!pedal!cycle!lane!and!may!not!ride!on!any!other!portion!of!a!public!road! except!when!crossing!the!road;!or

(b)!if!there!is!no!pedal!cycle!lane,!ride— (i)!to!the!left!of!the!left!edge!of!the!roadway;!or (ii)!on!the!roadway,!keeping!as!close!as!practicable!to!the!left!edge!of!the!roadway.

And as traffic, I am sure most of our bicycles are not roadworthy in respect to having the relevant reflectors required.

It is a debate that will never end.

 

[jackievs]

8 hours ago, ouzo said:

 

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMAN !

Can we club together and buy this guy a new enter key please.

You are most welcome.. thank you ..Educating people requires patience .. not just on the bike but also behind the keyboard....!!! 

[Patchelicious]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

 

And here is exactly the point. A cycling group behaving like a cycling group is traffic. Its the responsibility of me the driver to ensure I pass that traffic safely. it is my duty as the passing vehicle to ensure I followed all the necessary checks before proceeding to overtake. A cyclist being hit from behind is an innocent victim irrespective of whether they flipped the previous driver the bird.

A cyclist being taken out from the side while a motor vehicle is turning left and the cyclist is proceeding straight is an innocent victim because again the motorist failed to abide by the duties prescribed by the road traffic act. Instead the Lwis Hamilton approach to winning GP's is applied and the motorist is declared innocent. being a smiley happy chappies who always says cars first isn't going to keep chappie alive much longer than a bloke flippin gthe bird at every driver because as far as I can tell.

As cyclists we need to get out of the victim blaming mindset. In nearly every case of a cyclist being hit by a motor vehicle its is the motorists fault because they are the vehicle that has not fulfilled the duties required to pass safely. But as I pointed out, this pov doesn't bring people over to braai

Asking cyclists to be more considerate to other road users is not victim blaming.

Nobody here has blamed any cyclist for getting themselves killed.

Labelling the plea for cyclists to be more considerate as victim blaming is a distortion of the request.

 

Simply put, we are not going to change motorist behaviour positively by acting like inconsiderate 'rich hobbyists who think they are better people simply trying to get to work', but we can change OUR own behaviour. This behavioural change might not immediately decrease the number of deaths, but changing motorist attitudes towards cyclists positively is better than confirming the perception that we own the road.

[Patchelicious]

5 hours ago, ChrisF said:

NOTE - I am NOT condoning the "van driver" breaking the law !!  Just pointing out that "owning the road in a group ride" actually has concequences for others on the road.

And other cyclists.

You ride like a twat today, that driver develops a hate for cyclists and then like a twat takes it out on somebody innocent tomorrow, making the original cyclist and the driver both twats.

 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Patchelicious said:

Asking cyclists to be more considerate to other road users is not victim blaming.

Nobody here has blamed any cyclist for getting themselves killed.

Labelling the plea for cyclists to be more considerate as victim blaming is a distortion of the request.

 

Simply put, we are not going to change motorist behaviour positively by acting like inconsiderate 'rich hobbyists who think they are better people simply trying to get to work', but we can change OUR own behaviour. This behavioural change might not immediately decrease the number of deaths, but changing motorist attitudes towards cyclists positively is better than confirming the perception that we own the road.

Let's agree to disagree on this.

The majority of cyclists dying are not the rich "own the road because I ride Italian"  crowd, but rather the people who have no other transport options. The kind of people wealthy SUV drivers and rich cycling yobos generally don't care about in life or on the road hence, death.

 

[Patchelicious]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Let's agree to disagree on this.

The majority of cyclists dying are not the rich "own the road because I ride Italian"  crowd, but rather the people who have no other transport options. The kind of people wealthy SUV drivers and rich cycling yobos generally don't care about in life or on the road hence, death.

 

Are you saying that if inconsiderate behaviour does not lead to death, it should be accepted?

 

All I’m saying is that some cyclist could be more considerate. I am struggling to see how you can disagree with this.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Patchelicious

['Dale]

Hehehe 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, Patchelicious said:

Are you saying that if inconsiderate behaviour does not lead to death, it should be accepted?

 

All I’m saying is that some cyclist could be more considerate. I am struggling to see how you can disagree with this.

loaded words, not lekker. You know I've never suggested that.

 

Yes some cyclists should be more considerate. Now what does that change or solve?

[Bonus]

20 hours ago, Patchelicious said:

Ok, so if its makes no difference being inconsiderate or considerate when you cycle, why not er on the latter and be a positive contributor to society. 

 

 

 

* err

 

????

[Mook]

8 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

loaded words, not lekker. You know I've never suggested that.

 

Yes some cyclists should be more considerate. Now what does that change or solve?

Guy, Guys, Guys,

Clearly we are ALL passionate about cycling, whatever your preference. It is also evident that we agree on 90% of individual sentiments. Lets us not "moer" one another over the 10% differences ????

The fact of the matter is this:

Not ALL drivers are killers, yet 99.9% of cyclists killed on our roads are killed by drivers. Finish & Klaar ...................... it's like bringing a plastic camping fork to a gunfight. On a bike you have no chance - no matter who is at fault.

How about a "Summer's coming" thread ????

[Patchelicious]

9 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Yes some cyclists should be more considerate. Now what does that change or solve?

The fact that you agree suggests that you know the answer. 

[Pure Savage]

On 8/10/2021 at 1:30 PM, ChrisF said:

And yet we can b!tch and moan about "drivers" .... but so many of us continue to ride in a manner that blocks free flowing traffic ...

 

 

Sadly yes, going to take a LOT of "education" to get our fellow cyclists to behave better on the roads .....

So sick of this ****. This is the problem. What entitlement is there with drivers and free flowing traffic??

Are  you serious, when you sit in traffic in your car and not free flowing, you dont ram the car in front of you! 

A cyclist is part of the traffic, if you cannot pass safely, then you dont pass. 

This right here is the root of the problem of terrible drivers.

I hope you drive better than this, as this is poor. 

Cyclists dont need educating, riding along a road, the d1ck in a car does not want to be slowed down so will pass when illegal to do so, then stop with the other plonkers in cars 100m ahead while the cyclists breeze past.

Do better

[Pure Savage]

My view is a cyclist action makes no difference to drivers. 

Haven been hit by cars when obeying the law and doing nothing wrong I chose not to die, if this means taking the lane so drivers have to use their brains so be it. 

Thoughts and prayers for the drivers having to actually follow the rules. 

[DieselnDust]

32 minutes ago, Patchelicious said:

The fact that you agree suggests that you know the answer. 

 Are you suggesting that a greater number of cyclists behaving more considerately offers improved cyclist safety? If so, this is a fallacy when we don't know what the expectation of "more considerate" is. 

[DieselnDust]

21 hours ago, ChrisF said:

 

wroooonnnggggg .... 

 

 

Or rather, a VERY one sided view.

 

The "van driver" is probably on the clock, and will get an ear full for "taking his time" to finish his work.  I drive a lot for work, and YES I plan for the odd delay, but being deliberately held up by a GROUP of riders is not a nice situation.  I emphasize GROUP, as it is easy enough to pass a single rider when the conditions allow. 

 

 

NOTE - I am NOT condoning the "van driver" breaking the law !!  Just pointing out that "owning the road in a group ride" actually has concequences for others on the road.

 

 

 

O-well, I should know better ..... groups will behave like groups ....irate motorists will keep bad mouthing all cyclists ..... and the next car over a blind rise we will just repeat this series of posts .....

Being "on the clock is not an excuse for breaking the law. Its still the drivers responsibility to manage his schedule. Blaming others for being slower is ot an excuse to put their lives in danger.