New Giant Anthem Prototype

[Beerboy]

https://www.on-lynecomponents.com/collections/the-holy-rail

These work very well

Edited July 5, 2021 by Beerboy
spelling

[Mountain Bru]

1 hour ago, Danger Dassie said:

They do, Pyga for one. Merida for another ???? 

So according to uncle Pat, does this suspension not work?

[AdamA]

21 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Maestro is gone. Linkage driven single pivot.

Live valve on Reto's bike. Pity its not got rock shox

Maestro Gone????? WTF!!!

Maestro has been Great !!! I can't believe they have taken it away. I suppose with Live Valve they don't need it.

 

 

[Quagga]

18 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Paintwork reminds me of a 2015 epic....

 

Dare I say that Giant are 6 years behind Spez??? (It's a joke......)

This and the Giant are no where near simular even

This has a pivot at the rear axel and the new Giant does not

[GHOST FACE]

I think Giant realized that Maestro works exceptionally well in the mid to long travel bikes, like the Trance and Reign. In shorter travel bikes like the Anthem they can move to this single pivot platform and get nearly the same suspension benefit but save over 200grams and make it longer lasting (less bearings and linkages to replace).

[DieselnDust]

27 minutes ago, GHOST FACE said:

I think Giant realized that Maestro works exceptionally well in the mid to long travel bikes, like the Trance and Reign. In shorter travel bikes like the Anthem they can move to this single pivot platform and get nearly the same suspension benefit but save over 200grams and make it longer lasting (less bearings and linkages to replace).

I think you in the right track here. The current bike runs 90mm of travel because they do struggle to get more without lengthening the chainstays. Single pivot linkage takes all these problems away for no loss of performance.

[Headshot]

4 hours ago, AllTerrain said:

wasn’t it pat morewood a while back that asked, “do you want two water bottles, or do you want suspension that actually works”

What is with the obsession with dual bottle cages? On a 30-40km ride, generally one is more than enough, even in the height of summer, and you can normally fill up at spots along the way. At a race, there are water points every 20 odd km anyway, which I always thought was total overkill, and if you are venturing off on an unsupported marathon ride, your gonna take a backpack anyway, so then use a hydration bladder. You can also fit dual bottle cages to the seat post, or there are options for top tube or handlebar bottle cages also, if you really can’t go without. On a MTB, even one meant for ultra marathon work, I would rather have proper suspension 

Because Morewoord's statement, if he made it is nonsense. its not one or the other. Some marathon riders refuse to run dropper posts because their second bottle is on the seat post. You can have proper suspension, a dropper post and two bottle cages if you want it. But then you have to drop  brand fascination and not believe marketing hype.

[thebob]

15 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

The single pivot is probabl an improvement. Maestro generated lots of traction thanks to the high antisquat but that also makes the bike feel heavy to pedal up steep gradients. Single pivots work better for short travel unless theres a DW-Link in there. Dave just has the thing sorted to limit the short like 4 bars limitations

Traction doesn't come from anti-squat. Traction comes from an active suspension platform that is free to track the ground and is not forced to extend by chain forces. Maestro and DW Link are also two very similar systems. DW actually consulted with Giant during the development of Maestro and tried (unsuccessfully) to sue Giant for patent infringement. Almost any suspension can be made to work well for a chosen application, whether it be four bar, linkage driven single pivot or anything else. Travel numbers have nothing to do with it

[DieselnDust]

1 minute ago, thebob said:

Traction doesn't come from anti-squat. Traction comes from an active suspension platform that is free to track the ground and is not forced to extend by chain forces. Maestro and DW Link are also two very similar systems. DW actually consulted with Giant during the development of Maestro and tried (unsuccessfully) to sue Giant for patent infringement. Almost any suspension can be made to work well for a chosen application, whether it be four bar, linkage driven single pivot or anything else. Travel numbers have nothing to do with it

lots of mistakes:

traction is influenced by anti squat. Traction is a function of the reaction force at the rear wheel contact patch.

Dave Weagle did not consult with Giant. He tried to sell them the suspension system which they copied and called maestro. That's what the legal battle was about.

Yes any suspension system can be made to work and work well. That is not being discussed or debated. The maestro and DW link share common layout (execution is slightly different),  the axle path and virtual pivot points are different (the argument Giant used to claim maestro as their own unique interpretation). When riding a Ripley vs a Trance the differences are obvious but some of the character is similar and familiar to all short link 4 bar systems.

Travel is not in discussion. There was speculation that Giant opted for 90mm of travel with the Anthem because in order to extend the travel they would need to alter the lower link which would then put their design in the patent infringement space in terms of the layout and axle paths that they used to weagle their way out of the lawsuit. Whether this is true or not only they will know but I've worked out many ways they could achieve the 100mm  but would influence the shock placement. They worked themselves into a very defined corner to get around Weagle's patent.

[stefmeister]

2 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

So according to uncle Pat, does this suspension not work?

That's statement's a bit rich coming from people that mounted the brake caliper on the seat stay on what 's essentially a single pivot. 

I would not pay any attention to anyone's absolutes, one day we're told single pivots are unrideable, it's DW/VPP/4bar or gtfo, the next everyone is back on the single pivot bangwagon.

Edited July 5, 2021 by stefmeister

[Mountain Bru]

22 hours ago, Mountain Bru said:

Paintwork reminds me of a 2015 epic....
 

 

3 hours ago, Quagga said:

This and the Giant are no where near simular even

This has a pivot at the rear axel and the new Giant does not

I wasn't aware the suspension and pivots form part of the paintwork. My mistake ????

[droo]

20 hours ago, AllTerrain said:

That’s a little simplistic don’t you think. Fox probably wins in the forks department generally, but purely because they don’t really offer a budget fork. Even the cheapest model is middle market. But that doesn’t mean it’s inherently better than an equivalent rock shocks product. Rockshox just happens to also make more entry level options… but on a cutting edge prototype bike, it’s fair to assume it’s all top of the line stuff, so the differences between the two brands are nuanced….

 

since where being simplistic though I’m gonna say: everything else < Ohlins

Main difference IMO - when it breaks, you can get spares for Fox. RS spares are very limited.

[Broodryk]

Just now, droo said:

Main difference IMO - when it breaks, you can get spares for Fox. RS spares are very limited.

And also if a Fox breaks, it defaults to locked, meaning you now have to finish your ride on a rigid. Now that sounds very lekker, until you realize that you are on a mountain bike and that the suspension is there for a reason.

[AllTerrain]

2 minutes ago, Broodryk said:

And also if a Fox breaks, it defaults to locked, meaning you now have to finish your ride on a rigid. Now that sounds very lekker, until you realize that you are on a mountain bike and that the suspension is there for a reason.

I find that hard to believe…. I mean it would depend on what breaks/how it breaks, and that would apply equally to all brands. The actual failure state would determine if it’s locked out, or not, rideable or not, etc

[Broodryk]

7 minutes ago, AllTerrain said:

I find that hard to believe…. I mean it would depend on what breaks/how it breaks, and that would apply equally to all brands. The actual failure state would determine if it’s locked out, or not, rideable or not, etc

Fox chose to make their newer suspension's default mode in a locked position, meaning that you have to push to unlock. They claim that it makes the lever easier to push

[AllTerrain]

15 minutes ago, Broodryk said:

Fox chose to make their newer suspension's default mode in a locked position, meaning that you have to push to unlock. They claim that it makes the lever easier to push

Okay, so you are referring specifically to the remote lockout failing. I’m with you now. Sorry, blame it on lack of sleep