DJuice Posted October 28, 2021 Share 1 hour ago, guidodg said: yup...it's the only high end XC bike left in the world with that pivot... Not true The brand new Cube AMS 2022 has the same pivot. The Norco Revolver launched last year the same. The Bulls Wild Edge the same. All bikes I would gladly swing a leg over. To be honest, I am a bike s.... will swing my leg over any bike. Hairy, Danger Dassie, Sid the Sloth and 7 others 4 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted October 28, 2021 Share 1 minute ago, DieselnDust said: also known as a Horst Link Yes, but in the context of the conversation, explaining the subtle differences to someone who openly admits they know nothing, using layman term explanations gets the job done better than saying 'Horst link' to which said roadie then says 'what is horst link' and you have to use layman terms... GhostSixFour and Chadvdw67 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono Posted October 28, 2021 Share How about frame weights... Does anyone perhaps know what these weigh in at? Bonus points for ally and carbon ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted October 28, 2021 Share 15 minutes ago, Jewbacca said: Yes, but in the context of the conversation, explaining the subtle differences to someone who openly admits they know nothing, using layman term explanations gets the job done better than saying 'Horst link' to which said roadie then says 'what is horst link' and you have to use layman terms... or you direct them to www.google.com and they get the full run down, history et al. plus a dash of learning. give a man a fish and feed him for a day teach the man to fish and feed home for a lifetime kind of stuff imagine we taught math by referring to the variable as a thingymejig.....oh wait..(reviews 2020 matric math results) Edited October 28, 2021 by DieselnDust spellinggggg gerriemtb, Sid the Sloth, ChrisF and 4 others 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono Posted October 28, 2021 Share 9 minutes ago, Jewbacca said: It's a metric shock, both the 100mm and 120mm run 190mm eye to eye, so I removed the 7.5mm bump spacer to lengthen the stroke from 37.5mm to 45mm to make it 120mm front and rear. I have a 2.4 pergatory in the back with lots of space Thank you for the reply! This option as an upgrade to my current situation is looking pretty good. DieselnDust and Jewbacca 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted October 28, 2021 Share 1 minute ago, Jono said: How about frame weights... Does anyone perhaps know what these weigh in at? Bonus points for ally and carbon ???? I don't know, haven't weighed a bare frame but around 2200gr would be in the right ball park based on the weight of a complete bike similarly specced to a Blur, Scalpel or Epic or roughly 200 r heavier than the top of he line frames for the full carbon version. Carbon /Alloy mix would be around 2400gr and full alloy in the 2800gr range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewbacca Posted October 28, 2021 Share 3 minutes ago, Jono said: Thank you for the reply! This option as an upgrade to my current situation is looking pretty good. I cam highly recommend doing this. The bike at 120/120 with the flip chip on 'slack' feels really planted, fun and responsive. I no longer 'race' bikes, so the fun factor beats the fast factor for me on a mountain bike. DieselnDust, Hairy and Danger Dassie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIPSLICK Posted October 28, 2021 Share sexy,,, does anyone know where i can get an intergrated bracket like that Shimano brakes to sram axis shifter??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbz Posted October 28, 2021 Share 1 hour ago, DieselnDust said: better tell that to Cannondale and Pyga. Both recently just released brand new XCO race bikes with Horst Link suspension. On the heavy feeling pedaling I expect that this is a component of the suspension set up. probably too much sag to get a more plush feeling. Horst Link bikes have a narrower set up window for that spritely feeling. To imrove the set up window the engineers have to lower the anti squat (Scalpel) which makes the bike bob a little. They counter this with a shorter stroke shock (Scalpel '21 again). Titan Racing has gone with a pretty standard Horst set up so it really needs more low speed compression or a Brain type suspension unit to get the best of both worlds I see i am out of date when it comes to the latest bikes. at the time i rode the bike everything was moving away from the Horst Link setup. to see other bikes coming back to it is interesting to hear. clearing the "newer" (read DIFFERENT) suspension setups are maybe not better. 1 hour ago, Danger Dassie said: Outdated? How so? The kinetic movement is just as efficient, arguably more so than 'flex' ... Sure there's a weight saving and less maintenance on a pivot free area, but far from outdated. And at an average of 20% less cost I'll take it. The sales also prove that it's not as big a detractor. Happy to revise my thoughts. if designers are moving back to Horst then its clearing for a good reason. For anyone who is interested i wrote down my thoughts on the Titan Cyper Empire here is the form of a review. i ended up buying a Scott RC 900 SL and i love it. funny its angles might be a little dated but it feels fantastic to me. i increased the front from 110mm to 120mm to gain some more comfort and slightly slacken the head angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselnDust Posted October 28, 2021 Share 43 minutes ago, Furbz said: I see i am out of date when it comes to the latest bikes. at the time i rode the bike everything was moving away from the Horst Link setup. to see other bikes coming back to it is interesting to hear. clearing the "newer" (read DIFFERENT) suspension setups are maybe not better. Happy to revise my thoughts. if designers are moving back to Horst then its clearing for a good reason. For anyone who is interested i wrote down my thoughts on the Titan Cyper Empire here is the form of a review. i ended up buying a Scott RC 900 SL and i love it. funny its angles might be a little dated but it feels fantastic to me. i increased the front from 110mm to 120mm to gain some more comfort and slightly slacken the head angle. Its not so much about "better" but what the designer wants to achieve. Cannondale wanted to include a flex pivot in the 2008 Scalpel carbon but Specialized blocked it so they stuck to the flexing chainstay rather than have a flx pivot plus a main pivot. The Horst Link patent covered two pivots along the chain stay. The patent has expired and Specialized opted to not renew it so its now a free to use patent so more bike companies will opt to use it if it suits the design objective. Cannondale opted to go back to their original design intent for several reasons including being able to better tune the leverage ratio through the travel. Their flex pivot Horst Link only comes into play through the mid stroke toward the end whereas other Horst Links with a bearing pivot come into play earlier in the travel. So the Cannondale behave like a single pivot initially and then as a Horst link further into the travel. This delivers a really bottomless feeling of travel through the 100mm of travel. The move to flexing seat stays does allow a lighter set up through removal of extra material and two bearings as well as a stiffer rear triangle. Pyga and Cannondale have got around this problem through design. TitanRacing Cypher rear triangle isn't as beefy as the other two but flex in the rear isn't something complaine about so I assume that either design pathway is currently good enough, unlike 20years ago Shebeen, Hairy and Danger Dassie 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trashy Posted October 28, 2021 Share 21 minutes ago, DieselnDust said: Its not so much about "better" but what the designer wants to achieve. Exactly this. Often what is marketed as "better" is, in fact, either just proprietary or new. Most suspension designs can be very good if they are designed well and, in the same vein, any suspension design can be *** if it is badly designed. These days, with the design technology that is available, it's quite difficult to find truly terrible suspension, unless you are looking at unbranded trash or the very entry level cheapies. Anyway, "better" is a contextual term. What is better on an xc bike is not necessarily better on a DH bike. Edited October 28, 2021 by Trashy Edit DieselnDust and Danger Dassie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Dale Posted October 28, 2021 Share Daai ding lyk vining standing still... Scary Rider, DIPSLICK and Pieterlab1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Dassie Posted October 28, 2021 Share 3 minutes ago, 'Dale said: Daai ding lyk vining standing still... Net soos ek .... ???? Scary Rider, Jay F, Hairy and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbz Posted October 28, 2021 Share 1 hour ago, DieselnDust said: Its not so much about "better" but what the designer wants to achieve. Cannondale wanted to include a flex pivot in the 2008 Scalpel carbon but Specialized blocked it so they stuck to the flexing chainstay rather than have a flx pivot plus a main pivot. The Horst Link patent covered two pivots along the chain stay. The patent has expired and Specialized opted to not renew it so its now a free to use patent so more bike companies will opt to use it if it suits the design objective. Cannondale opted to go back to their original design intent for several reasons including being able to better tune the leverage ratio through the travel. Their flex pivot Horst Link only comes into play through the mid stroke toward the end whereas other Horst Links with a bearing pivot come into play earlier in the travel. So the Cannondale behave like a single pivot initially and then as a Horst link further into the travel. This delivers a really bottomless feeling of travel through the 100mm of travel. The move to flexing seat stays does allow a lighter set up through removal of extra material and two bearings as well as a stiffer rear triangle. Pyga and Cannondale have got around this problem through design. TitanRacing Cypher rear triangle isn't as beefy as the other two but flex in the rear isn't something complaine about so I assume that either design pathway is currently good enough, unlike 20years ago Thanks for the extra info. some good knowledge you have there! 56 minutes ago, Trashy said: Exactly this. Often what is marketed as "better" is, in fact, either just proprietary or new. Most suspension designs can be very good if they are designed well and, in the same vein, any suspension design can be *** if it is badly designed. These days, with the design technology that is available, it's quite difficult to find truly terrible suspension, unless you are looking at unbranded trash or the very entry level cheapies. Anyway, "better" is a contextual term. What is better on an xc bike is not necessarily better on a DH bike. 100% agree! i'll say right now, if a medium Titan Empire Carbon pops up on the classifieds i will have serious trouble not buying it. DieselnDust and DJuice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Posted October 28, 2021 Share 4 hours ago, ouzo said: can anyone point out this extra pivot to this roadie please This specific pivot over here Danger Dassie and Sid the Sloth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Dassie Posted October 28, 2021 Share 2 hours ago, Hairy said: This specific pivot over here You just love an opportunity to do your pink skrawls hey! DieselnDust and peetwindhoek 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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