Should e-bikes be allowed in Cycle Tour and other Races

[DuncanDoughnuts]

Just now, jcza said:

How long before we see the first doper on a e-bike? 

 

does beer count ? 

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

5 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Information is Power 🙂 I just learnt a few things!

 

3. E-Bikes/ Power Assisted Bicycles

3.1. Definition: In this clause the term “e-bike” means a bicycle that has pedals as its primary mode of propulsion and an auxiliary electric motor as a form of power assistance.
3.2. Should a cyclist wish to use a power assisted (PAS) bicycle in the Cape Town Cycle Tour only a bicycle which has electricity as its auxiliary power may be ridden.
3.3. Should a rider wish to partake in the Cycle Tour by using an e-bike, such rider must select the E-bike category when completing the online entry for the Cycle Tour.
3.4. If the rider failed to register in the E-bike category, he/she will not be allowed to partake in the Cycle Tour.
3.5. Any person riding an e-bike on the Cycle Tour that has not formally entered as an E-Bike participant shall be disqualified from this and future Cycle Tours.
3.6. An e-bike may only be used by a rider in the Cycle Tour if such e-bike adheres to ALL of the following requirements:
3.6.1. it weighs less than 30 kg;
3.6.2. it looks like a bicycle and accordingly must contain pedals which serve as the principal method of propulsion;
3.6.3. the auxiliary electric motor with which it is equipped has a maximum continuous rated power of 250W (or 0.25kW);
3.6.4. the motorised assistance only engages when the rider is pedalling, progressively reduces and finally cuts off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h or sooner (i.e. no permanently powered bicycles);
3.6.5. it is fitted with a control mechanism that limits the maximum electric powered speed on PAS (power assist) mode to 25 km/h;
3.6.6. is fitted with all the safety equipment recommended, and/or required under South African road traffic legislation, for pedal cycles.
3.7. An e-bike rider may not start or attempt to start the event before his/her designated starting time slot. Any rider who does so will be disqualified with immediate effect.
3.8. E-bike results will be marked as such in the Cycle Tour results and may not be used as seeding for other cycling events.
3.9. Riders using e-bikes will not qualify for any prize in the Cycle Tour.
3.10. The fastest time that a cyclist, using an e-bike, may complete the event is 3hr 50min. Any e-bike cyclists recording a time of less than 3hr 50min will be disqualified.

Thank you for this ....

now those of you with sensitive egos don't need to break down when you get passed buy a ebike.

yes I have a extra 250W .... and no, im not racing against you. 

[100Tours]

10 minutes ago, Eldron said:

Information is Power 🙂 I just learnt a few things!

3.10. The fastest time that a cyclist, using an e-bike, may complete the event is 3hr 50min. Any e-bike cyclists recording a time of less than 3hr 50min will be disqualified.

That last rule seems a bit silly - given it is clearly possible to surpass 25kph with a bit of assisted pedaling. You still pedal harder to go faster..

[Bman]

2 hours ago, Eldron said:

Well that's the thing right - if you can only ride 100km using a motor then you can't actually ride 100km can you? Kinda like me saying I can swim 2km if I use a flotation device and fins.

In the real world I can actually swim about 8m before drowning...and that is only if the pool is 8m deep.

Using eBikes to get people into cycling and/or increase cycling numbers is a completely different thing and should be encouraged 100%.

 

 

 

Missed the point again I'm afraid, because you're riding using an ebike to assist doesn't mean you're not riding. 

Also in my case my Mrs is well capable of riding 100km, but in the event of a cycle tour starting alone and looking to enjoy her tour of Cape Town she'd much rather do it while pedalling her ebike. Again still peddling and still having to work for her 100kms. 

[Ravenhash]

If you ride an e-bike you already a doper. Fast or Slow if what you put out is more than what you put in there's no way if considering Cycling. Being slow myself it sucks that I see guys who ride these e-bikes put in so little effort for so much gains. It makes one despondent to enter any Ride or Race (same thing). 

[Danger Dassie]

31 minutes ago, Eldron said:

We've already established that if ebikes get their own category and timing their is no problem...

I think you need to read your dictionary again - this is not how you belittle someone's achievements:

That doesn't take anything away from her achievements of course - each person has different goals, genetics, fortitude, money to spend on bikes etc.

To be fair you were projecting a fair bit. 

In anycase, in point of fact it's well established that events do in fact have separate categories, starts and times.
Anyone cheating this by whatever means would also be the kind of character to cheat some other way. In that case it's a matter of dealing with the individual. Not a goose step all out ban as suggested in the OP. 

[DieselnDust]

2 hours ago, DuncanDoughnuts said:

I find it amusing that people in this forum, and people in general think Ebikes ride everywhere in Turbo all the time... 

Any event over 30km and you have carefully manage your battery, most of the time riding in a setting that just overcomes the extra weight of the bike. And hope you have enough left for the end stages. My ave and peak HR are very similar to when I'm on a ebike vs a legacy bike. 

Yes there are those few lucky people that will have multiple batteries, (they will be few) but do you really want to carry a 2 kilo battery in a rucksack

And I highly doubt that the ladies and gents riding for fun will have multiple batteries.

My Cycle tour times have been faster on my road bike than my ebike ..... so why ride the ebike you ask ? because I have more fun on it. And Im all about the fun now.

 

But you’re not the target of discussion, it’s those who do have 2 batteries with the spare in the Rucksack and who  do go a for a time in the  CTCT and are not there for the fun. 
 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

1 minute ago, 100Tours said:

That last rule seems a bit silly - given it is clearly possible to surpass 25kph with a bit of assisted pedaling. You still pedal harder to go faster..

You need to be Lance Armstrong fit with the extra medial performance kit to pedal past the motor cut off for long periods of time...

And yes it is silly cause the legal cut off for South Africa is 32 and not 25 ... 25 is for europe. 

but even trying to stay at that cutoff point the whole ride is almost impossible. (well for me that it) 

[Bman]

1 hour ago, DuncanDoughnuts said:

Kudos to your wife..... There is no ways I can make a my battery last 100km without riding with motor turned off for some time. 

Most iIcan get out a of a single charge is 70km and thats in a low low setting where im just keeping up with legacy bikes (Im big boned) 

Cheers mate, she's come a long way and pushes herself to only use eco and nothing at all at times where she's not riding against the weight of the bike. 

Keep at it though and you're bound to improve. With big bones comes big power when it all comes right💪

[DuncanDoughnuts]

7 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

But you’re not the target of discussion, it’s those who do have 2 batteries with the spare in the Rucksack and who  do go a for a time in the  CTCT and are not there for the fun. 
 

I appreciate that , even with 3 or 4 batteries there is no way a ebiker on a MTB could win unless the bike was derestricted. and then they would pick it up. you literally cant pedal past 32km/h and would not be able to keep that 32 mark for very long .... If you doubt that come, take my bike for a spin

All they would win is the ebike catergory ... and to be honest no one really cares about that.

Edited February 22, 2022 by DuncanDoughnuts

[ChrisF]

5 hours ago, Nick said:

Ebikes are not as fast as you think. Especially if they adhere to the max assist speeds and wattage rules.

It would be carnage if the ebikers went out first at a road race.

 

THIS is the key part to the "douches" that @Eldron refers to.

 

A LEGAL ebike does not have any pedal assist past 25 or 32km/h (depending on the country of origin).  

 

At 32km/h I can barely hang onto a group of roadies along Bottelary, talking of the casual weekend riders.  On the few uphills I take my turn at the lead.  But as soon as the road begins to dip I spin out and they are GONE into the distance.  As for the Pure Savage type group rides coming past .... simply NO WAY that I can hang with the type of riders that average 40km/h along Bottelary.

 

Simply no way that "I" can drag a group of racers to the front in a race - NOT while riding a standard ebike.

 

 

That very special "douche", fully agree with @Eldron, that buys an ebike, chips it, and then proceeds to mess with the race results is NOT an "e-biker", he/she is just a DOUCHE !!!

 

 

The vast majority of ebikers are very happy to start at the far back, ride standard (non-chipped) ebikes, and just have a lekka time out .... while knowing that most events automatically excludes you from any timing and prices because you are on an ebike.  In fact, knowing timing is off the table I go out and have fun with my camera and ENJOY the fun-ride.

 

 

I know of one MTB event where the ebikers starts 10 minutes early .... by the second water point only ONE ebike had not been passed yet, and yes he was running a chipped bike.  (The two lead rides doing a training ride for the Epic had a GOOD workout and caught him just before the end)  This can be dangerous, and mess with the results when the leaders and contenders catch the ebikes along single tracks ....

 

Trans Augrabies has the ebikes starting 10 minutes later.  Will let you know in June how that played out.

 

[Danger Dassie]

2 minutes ago, Ravenhash said:

If you ride an e-bike you already a doper. Fast or Slow if what you put out is more than what you put in there's no way if considering Cycling. Being slow myself it sucks that I see guys who ride these e-bikes put in so little effort for so much gains. It makes one despondent to enter any Ride or Race (same thing). 

Ok I will outright say this is an absolutely moronic stereotype to make. Perhaps take a look at your own attitude here.
I'll let my mate know, looks perfectly healthy, strong and at least 10 years younger than his 60 odd years let on. However a heart attack with a double bypass means he can no longer ride over a certain HR, otherwise tickets. An e-bike gave him a new lease on life, literally. 
But according to half the comments here he'd be slagged off. 

The problem very clearly does not lie with ebikes. 

[Frosty]

So this guy, riding an eBike at the 947 did 2:17 on his eBike; has his results showing as a eBike. Based on his number, I’m guessing this is the guy that came passed me going up Jan Smuts.

He did the Cycle Tour in 2021 in 2:48 and is seeded 1A for the 2022 CTCT. 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

So he came first in his ebike category ... Must be a road Ebike ...those things are fast ... but still in a different category. 

Must be a good rider to be in 1A ... but wont be able to claim any prize money and will still be in the ebike classification. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by DuncanDoughnuts

[DieselnDust]

4 minutes ago, DuncanDoughnuts said:

I appreciate that , even with 3 or 4 batteries there is no way a ebiker on a MTB could win unless the bike was derestricted. and then they would pick it up. you literally cant pedal past 32km/h and would not be able to keep that 32 mark for very long .... If you doubt that come, take my bike for a spin

All they would win is the ebike catergory ... and to be honest no one really cares about that.

You know I will take for a spin . Point is there are okes chipping their bikes and entering races while carrying an extra battery. Last years ctct had a rider finish in under 3hrs on an e-bike. No way that’s possible with max assist and 32km/hr restriction. So that bike was most definitely a non regulation bike. Yes they’re the minority which is why I don’t stress about them too much .

I can’t remember if it finished ahead of me but those bikes make a difference between top 200 and other side of 200. I don’t lose sleep over cheats but why embrace this form of cheating while hating on dopers. There has to be some consistency of argument i this matter

 

 

 

[Ravenhash]

How in heavens name is Riding an e-bike in a Cycling still allowed?