My brand new is not your brand new

[LazyTrailRider]

Yet again, ye old subjectivity (or not, read below) chestnut strikes...

So I see an ad for a Garmin Fenix 6S listed by someone who's been a member for 8 years, described as "Brand new condition, my wife only wore it for a few training sessions and wants to go back to Forerunner".

I think "Cool, this is good value at R7k, it's a discount of R2.5k from new for losing the warranty, but that's fine if it's in brand new condition".

At this stage, the phrase "brand new condition" evokes an image of what I imagine to be a reasonable definition. What's that, you ask? In exactly the same condition as new, but has been unboxed and maybe used three times carefully, but still indistinguishable from new to the naked eye. Maybe there's a drop of sweat on it, if you're nitpicking. Fair?

I pay, the buyer sends it via Postnet, and I excitedly collect it this morning, As I open the box, I see the images below.

Nope, not brand new after all.

What do I do? I message the buyer and in short this is what happens:

Me: "I'm really sorry, but I'm very particular about my stuff and this is not in the condition it was described to be. I'm happy to pay the postage back to you, can we please reverse the transaction?"

Him: "I'm sorry, didn't realise, will get my wife to contact you."

His wife: "Sorry, but I've already replaced it with a Forerunner so we can't take it back. It's a voetstoots sale on Facebook (Ed: No, it was on here) and there is nothing wrong with it. May have a few marks but I trained with it so that's normal."

Me: "It's disappointing to hear that you're not willing to do the right thing. It was described by your husband as "brand new condition", which clearly is a misrepresentation of the facts. It's in good condition, sure, but not brand new. See for example the scratch on the lens. I'll pay the shipping back to you with pleasure. I've sold and bought many items on BikeHub over the years and the system is based on trust, which is different to FB Marketplace. I hope you can appreciate that."

His wife: "Stop bullying me, I physically cannot afford it right now. Will let you know when I can, but that's not now."

Me: "Erm, OK, didn't realise I was "bullying" you, but OK. I'm simply going to give your husband a poor review. Enjoy the Forerunner!"

Her: "OK"

________

Really?

I message the husband again saying that I'm disappointed in how they're handling it. Guess what his response is:

"I said she wore it, did not say it was in the box and never used. My view of what's brand new seem to be different to yours. Mine is used, that one is very good and the price also".

No shoot, Sherlock! Very clearly your view of what's brand new differs from mine...

This was a lapse in my judgement, I should have known better. People can be amazingly divergent in their perceptions of quality and condition, and I know this. I should have peppered with him questions and requests for up close photos. I was sloppy....

Still not cool though. What gets me most (again, I know this is common) is how someone who thinks they can afford a R9.5k sports watch literally doesn't have enough money (according to them) to temporarily float the value of a second watch. The mind boggles.

 

UPDATE: As of 18 May, I managed to determine (because the seller eventually told me) that the Fenix was originally bought somewhere (their memory failed them) mid 2021, so in all likelihood it was close to a year old when sold to me.

SUMMARY: I would dissuade all who read this from buying anything from [I've removed their names], in all the dealings I have had with them they have been dishonest, dismissive and evasive about the facts at hand.

UPDATE August 1st 2023: The seller's wife contacted me and apologised for how the situation was handled originally, and offered to reimburse me for the difference in what the value should have realistically been (I estimate R5.5k instead of R7k). I declined, but said that I'll remove their names regardless, and hopefully everyone learns something from this. I learnt that one absolutely cannot trust the opinions of strangers on anything that requires a subjective assessment (this is such an obvious thing, duh) and hopefully they've learnt that misrepresenting facts and then refusing to back down is not a lekker thing to do. Here's hoping some good karma was spread...

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by LazyTrailRider
Updated with additional information gained since the original post

[Jewbacca]

That's some serious wear actually. 

I have the 6x Pro and I have seriously put it through its paces. I'm talking multiple 100 milers, 200 miler, multiple multi day adventures and wearing it every day for 18 odd months and mine is in far better condition than that.

They lied. That was worn non stop for ages

[26er]

It’s becoming very hard to trust people in general these days.

[Rock Guy]

3 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

That's some serious wear actually. 

I have the 6x Pro and I have seriously put it through its paces. I'm talking multiple 100 milers, 200 miler, multiple multi day adventures and wearing it every day for 18 odd months and mine is in far better condition than that.

They lied. That was worn non stop for ages

Totally agree.  This was just plain dishonesty. Sadly, you wont get your money back though. These types of people know exactly what they can get away with. Name and shame is probably all you can do.

[scubes]

Pity you had to experience this. I have bought and sold many items on Bikehub and FB MP and I believe in honesty and good pricing. I sell items quickly due to good/value/low pricing and accurately describe the items. Anything brand new must be unused or kinda used once. Else it is not brand new or new- it is used. They misled you IMHO which is not cool. Karma sorts out people like that. A red flag for me is this "my wife only wore it for a few training sessions"- that tells me it is neither brand new nor new- it is a used item probably worn for quite a few sessions. The marks on the strap (after you received it) bear this out - however the scratch on the screen is a biggie and this watch is NOT new in any sense! that scratch should have been clearly indicated in the ad and with a pic of the scratch. Whoever the seller is, thumbs down. 

[figjam_sa]

Ai, this sucks. I've had my 6s Pro now for almost a year, wearing it everyday. Farming with it, and mountain biking and training with it as well and mine is in way better condition than that. I try to look after my things, though. My screen has NO marks, they are pretty tough!

[babse]

Voetstoots sale on FB nogal. Wtf 

Sorry about that. That Hubber deserves a proper bad review and hopefully takes a knock for future sales!!!

[patches]

Can't argue with the dictionary! "completely new and unused". 

Used "just a few times"... not brand new

Used once... not brand new

 

 

[Arrie]

Wow that's bad, that is very far from brand new or excellent condition. When you advertise a product on bikehub, you need to choose the condition with an explanation of each condition, can you not hold that against the seller?

[tinmug]

That's nowhere near good condition, never mind like new. And recourse seems unlikely. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. 

[Steady Spin]

Another reason to insist on using Bikehub Pay for items like these. 

Sorry to hear that it happened. 

Name & shame. 

[LazyTrailRider]

On 5/17/2022 at 5:49 AM, Arrie said:

Wow that's bad, that is very far from brand new or excellent condition. When you advertise a product on bikehub, you need to choose the condition with an explanation of each condition, can you not hold that against the seller?

Sure, but it seems they're simply pulling the "I can't afford to replace it anyway, even if I wanted" card.

Is it a valid card? Obviously not, but doesn't look like they care....

Thanks everyone for confirming that I'm really not being unreasonable about this. I'd like [name removed] (the seller) to clarify exactly when it was purchased and give me a realistic estimate of how many times it was used, so that I can accurately represent this when I sell it again (which I'm considering doing, for less obviously) so that I can get one which is actually in brand new condition (likely a brand new one, pardon the pun).

I didn't notice this on the photos, but there was a Christmas watch face applied (he told me this after I'd already paid), which should have been an immediate "OK, so it's at least 6 months old" flag. So you learn.

Edited August 4, 2023 by LazyTrailRider
Removed seller's name after receiving an apology

[Mongoose!]

1 hour ago, Steady Spin said:

Another reason to insist on using Bikehub Pay for items like these. 

cannot agree more yes.

Looks like Johnny boy does not have any previous seller ratings? 👀

[MTBeer]

Call me cynical, but I would never buy anything valued at more than R100 from anyone without it being in person. The worlds too full of d!cks.

[LazyTrailRider]

9 minutes ago, Mongoose! said:

cannot agree more yes.

Looks like Johnny boy does not have any previous seller ratings? 👀

Indeed, but he's been a member since 2013 and was very pleasant in initial comms, so I took him at face value...

[cadenceblur]

Disgusting behavior. Name and shame. Inexcusable!

I generally ask for high resolution pics or close up pics of any marks that I should be aware of before progressing.

Did this with a motorbike I recently bought from another province.

Upon delivery I picked up some blemishes that we're shared and the dealer had to sort out but had I not requested for the detail explicitly it would have been on me.