Tygerberg MTB club newsletter - unacceptable

[Eddy Gordo]

There is a simple solution to holding berms together.

Either turn it into a bermed rock garden or use those concrete erosion blocks.

or some compacted stone

Edited October 11, 2022 by Eddy Gordo

[Max Headroom]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:58 AM, Bub Marley said:

I agree with this 100%.

 

Ive never come across anyone purposefully trashing the trails but that’s just me. If you’re experienced, you’re obviously gonna go quickly and if you overcooked it, what are you supposed to do? Surely that’s all part of the sport. Then they also complain a lot when newbies overuse the brakes around corners. Seriously, if you’re just starting out, its pretty normal to do this until you get the hang of it. I’m trying to understand what exactly the correct way of riding now is.

 

Regardless, if you build specific trails with all these berms, drop offs and switchbacks, then unfortunately it’s gonna take damage. Perhaps this is is becoming too costly to maintain, but then they should increase the membership fee. I do think for the number of trails we get to ride, its amazing value for money. But if its not sustainable then perhaps increase it. 

Hang on a minute - increase fees ?

The continuous annual increase in membership fees has already become automatic, apparently without consideration of why the club exists, member expectations, thoughtful communication.

Re the Newsletter,

rather that moaning about rain and drought and brakes, in unacceptable language;  I would rather see more contributions from other committee members on  subjects such as noted below :  - (and by the way, don't think you will get much by going to an AGM)

Give us all the latest on the trails, yes, - but also consider other subject and club intentions that members should know about :

Consider that (2021) - R240,000 given away as donations. (probably to a good cause right !)

But, I already have enough stop-orders and donations to various charities and needy charities and societies that I have chosen to support.

It drives me nuts when every Cycle/Mtb event entry, club membership PPA CSA etc etc continuously increases fees and then gives it to whatever charities they like. Yes, 240,000 is very little when divided by the number of members - ..so what.... I don't join clubs or events for charities. I have already chosen charities I want to support privately. I would like to pay for a club or event that gives me what I came for - and keeps costs and member-fee etc. down.

Some other interesting stats that could be covered in Newsletter :

Where does the money go ? example R 900,000 spent on salaries, R900,000 on trail maintenance -excluding R 50,000 vehicle cost, tools etc., Not sure how that is comprised - i.e what does trail maintenance include (also some of the salaries and wages ?)

R22,000 on meetings (and R 36,000 clubhouse rent - where is the clubhouse - on Bloemendal ? where (according to the newsletter) the trail building teams spend a lot of time. How have the benefits to the Bloemendal owners (increase in visitors, wine restaurant etc) been weighed into our interest and costs ?

R 220,000 on bank charges etc. (Bank balance R 3,5m and R 1,7 m accumulated surplus ) 

Tell us about these things - (an AGM is not run or designed, or comprehensive enough for members to get these insights)

yes, we want to hear about the trails - but there is so much more that drought and back brake moaning, that could be newsletter subjects.

I also like the (Warren and Mellisa) ? type video idea (i.e. these (W&M specifically) probably not everyone cup of tea, but a good start to shows more of our excellent trails)

ciao

ps. I sent the essence of issues above to TMBC

[117]

There-in is the essence of a club/association: a group of self minded people that take hours over minutes

[Warren Melissa Go Riding]

21 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Hang on a minute - increase fees ?

The continuous annual increase in membership fees has already become automatic, apparently without consideration of why the club exists, member expectations, thoughtful communication.

Re the Newsletter,

rather that moaning about rain and drought and brakes, in unacceptable language;  I would rather see more contributions from other committee members on  subjects such as noted below :  - (and by the way, don't think you will get much by going to an AGM)

Give us all the latest on the trails, yes, - but also consider other subject and club intentions that members should know about :

Consider that (2021) - R240,000 given away as donations. (probably to a good cause right !)

But, I already have enough stop-orders and donations to various charities and needy charities and societies that I have chosen to support.

It drives me nuts when every Cycle/Mtb event entry, club membership PPA CSA etc etc continuously increases fees and then gives it to whatever charities they like. Yes, 240,000 is very little when divided by the number of members - ..so what.... I don't join clubs or events for charities. I have already chosen charities I want to support privately. I would like to pay for a club or event that gives me what I came for - and keeps costs and member-fee etc. down.

Some other interesting stats that could be covered in Newsletter :

Where does the money go ? example R 900,000 spent on salaries, R900,000 on trail maintenance -excluding R 50,000 vehicle cost, tools etc., Not sure how that is comprised - i.e what does trail maintenance include (also some of the salaries and wages ?)

R22,000 on meetings (and R 36,000 clubhouse rent - where is the clubhouse - on Bloemendal ? where (according to the newsletter) the trail building teams spend a lot of time. How have the benefits to the Bloemendal owners (increase in visitors, wine restaurant etc) been weighed into our interest and costs ?

R 220,000 on bank charges etc. (Bank balance R 3,5m and R 1,7 m accumulated surplus ) 

Tell us about these things - (an AGM is not run or designed, or comprehensive enough for members to get these insights)

yes, we want to hear about the trails - but there is so much more that drought and back brake moaning, that could be newsletter subjects.

I also like the (Warren and Mellisa) ? type video idea (i.e. these (W&M specifically) probably not everyone cup of tea, but a good start to shows more of our excellent trails)

ciao

ps. I sent the essence of issues above to TMBC

Dankie

[Bub Marley]

21 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Hang on a minute - increase fees ?

The continuous annual increase in membership fees has already become automatic, apparently without consideration of why the club exists, member expectations, thoughtful communication.

Re the Newsletter,

rather that moaning about rain and drought and brakes, in unacceptable language;  I would rather see more contributions from other committee members on  subjects such as noted below :  - (and by the way, don't think you will get much by going to an AGM)

Give us all the latest on the trails, yes, - but also consider other subject and club intentions that members should know about :

Consider that (2021) - R240,000 given away as donations. (probably to a good cause right !)

But, I already have enough stop-orders and donations to various charities and needy charities and societies that I have chosen to support.

It drives me nuts when every Cycle/Mtb event entry, club membership PPA CSA etc etc continuously increases fees and then gives it to whatever charities they like. Yes, 240,000 is very little when divided by the number of members - ..so what.... I don't join clubs or events for charities. I have already chosen charities I want to support privately. I would like to pay for a club or event that gives me what I came for - and keeps costs and member-fee etc. down.

Some other interesting stats that could be covered in Newsletter :

Where does the money go ? example R 900,000 spent on salaries, R900,000 on trail maintenance -excluding R 50,000 vehicle cost, tools etc., Not sure how that is comprised - i.e what does trail maintenance include (also some of the salaries and wages ?)

R22,000 on meetings (and R 36,000 clubhouse rent - where is the clubhouse - on Bloemendal ? where (according to the newsletter) the trail building teams spend a lot of time. How have the benefits to the Bloemendal owners (increase in visitors, wine restaurant etc) been weighed into our interest and costs ?

R 220,000 on bank charges etc. (Bank balance R 3,5m and R 1,7 m accumulated surplus ) 

Tell us about these things - (an AGM is not run or designed, or comprehensive enough for members to get these insights)

yes, we want to hear about the trails - but there is so much more that drought and back brake moaning, that could be newsletter subjects.

I also like the (Warren and Mellisa) ? type video idea (i.e. these (W&M specifically) probably not everyone cup of tea, but a good start to shows more of our excellent trails)

ciao

ps. I sent the essence of issues above to TMBC

🤷‍♂️

[MORNE]

10 minutes ago, Warren Melissa Go Riding said:

Dankie

I came to greet you guys that day at the table at bloemendal to express thanks for your friendly content on youtube pertaining to the local trails. Thanks again. 

Imo - perfect example of the kind of positive vibes that will go a long way in creating more respect between everybody.  

[Josh Baptie]

34 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Hang on a minute - increase fees ?

The continuous annual increase in membership fees has already become automatic, apparently without consideration of why the club exists, member expectations, thoughtful communication.

Re the Newsletter,

rather that moaning about rain and drought and brakes, in unacceptable language;  I would rather see more contributions from other committee members on  subjects such as noted below :  - (and by the way, don't think you will get much by going to an AGM)

Give us all the latest on the trails, yes, - but also consider other subject and club intentions that members should know about :

Consider that (2021) - R240,000 given away as donations. (probably to a good cause right !)

But, I already have enough stop-orders and donations to various charities and needy charities and societies that I have chosen to support.

It drives me nuts when every Cycle/Mtb event entry, club membership PPA CSA etc etc continuously increases fees and then gives it to whatever charities they like. Yes, 240,000 is very little when divided by the number of members - ..so what.... I don't join clubs or events for charities. I have already chosen charities I want to support privately. I would like to pay for a club or event that gives me what I came for - and keeps costs and member-fee etc. down.

Some other interesting stats that could be covered in Newsletter :

Where does the money go ? example R 900,000 spent on salaries, R900,000 on trail maintenance -excluding R 50,000 vehicle cost, tools etc., Not sure how that is comprised - i.e what does trail maintenance include (also some of the salaries and wages ?)

R22,000 on meetings (and R 36,000 clubhouse rent - where is the clubhouse - on Bloemendal ? where (according to the newsletter) the trail building teams spend a lot of time. How have the benefits to the Bloemendal owners (increase in visitors, wine restaurant etc) been weighed into our interest and costs ?

R 220,000 on bank charges etc. (Bank balance R 3,5m and R 1,7 m accumulated surplus ) 

Tell us about these things - (an AGM is not run or designed, or comprehensive enough for members to get these insights)

yes, we want to hear about the trails - but there is so much more that drought and back brake moaning, that could be newsletter subjects.

I also like the (Warren and Mellisa) ? type video idea (i.e. these (W&M specifically) probably not everyone cup of tea, but a good start to shows more of our excellent trails)

ciao

ps. I sent the essence of issues above to TMBC

Great post.
Yeah perhaps suggesting increased fees was the wrong avenue but was based on the assumption that there is not enough money. Probably due to the lack of clarity you mentioned.
This is what stuns me about the complaints of trail maintenance and the constant humbling.... People are literally paying money for it... Yes its alot of effort.. so is my daily job.. but i get paid to do it soooooo.

This is like pick n pay moaning at you that they have to keep re-stocking shelves from your purchases and then making you feel as if you must be grateful that you are able to spend your money at their store on the way out.

[Skubarra]

3 hours ago, Josh Baptie said:

The attitude is just not great. TMC definitely has the monopoly and if youve ever watched Spider man.. with great power comes great responsibility. 
While myself and probs most of the community are extremely grateful that the land owners allow the access and opportunity for us to have what we do...im not fond of how there is a constant humbling involved.... To the land owner yes... To the club yes , to an extent..but ALSO alot of people pay alot of money towards it for the services offered. To then blast them and try make them feel like they must just be greatful is abit beyond me.
 

I disagree with a few things here. For one I don't consider R80 per month a lot of money for unlimited access to a trail network of over 150km,  the  "blasting" I'm seeing on this thread is pretty one-sided and not from the club and they do not have a monopoly, there are other trail options in the wider area (even ones without berms)

[HenryS]

1 hour ago, Max Headroom said:

Hang on a minute - increase fees ?

The continuous annual increase in membership fees has already become automatic, apparently without consideration of why the club exists, member expectations, thoughtful communication.

Re the Newsletter,

rather that moaning about rain and drought and brakes, in unacceptable language;  I would rather see more contributions from other committee members on  subjects such as noted below :  - (and by the way, don't think you will get much by going to an AGM)

Give us all the latest on the trails, yes, - but also consider other subject and club intentions that members should know about :

Consider that (2021) - R240,000 given away as donations. (probably to a good cause right !)

But, I already have enough stop-orders and donations to various charities and needy charities and societies that I have chosen to support.

It drives me nuts when every Cycle/Mtb event entry, club membership PPA CSA etc etc continuously increases fees and then gives it to whatever charities they like. Yes, 240,000 is very little when divided by the number of members - ..so what.... I don't join clubs or events for charities. I have already chosen charities I want to support privately. I would like to pay for a club or event that gives me what I came for - and keeps costs and member-fee etc. down.

Some other interesting stats that could be covered in Newsletter :

Where does the money go ? example R 900,000 spent on salaries, R900,000 on trail maintenance -excluding R 50,000 vehicle cost, tools etc., Not sure how that is comprised - i.e what does trail maintenance include (also some of the salaries and wages ?)

R22,000 on meetings (and R 36,000 clubhouse rent - where is the clubhouse - on Bloemendal ? where (according to the newsletter) the trail building teams spend a lot of time. How have the benefits to the Bloemendal owners (increase in visitors, wine restaurant etc) been weighed into our interest and costs ?

R 220,000 on bank charges etc. (Bank balance R 3,5m and R 1,7 m accumulated surplus ) 

Tell us about these things - (an AGM is not run or designed, or comprehensive enough for members to get these insights)

yes, we want to hear about the trails - but there is so much more that drought and back brake moaning, that could be newsletter subjects.

I also like the (Warren and Mellisa) ? type video idea (i.e. these (W&M specifically) probably not everyone cup of tea, but a good start to shows more of our excellent trails)

ciao

ps. I sent the essence of issues above to TMBC

Every year there is a SGM specifically to approve the fees for the following year. The attendance is always poor and the few that do attend have generally always been happy with what was proposed. There has been at least one year I can recall that the proposed fees were changed because someone actually put their hand up and made a suggestion. 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by HenryS

[ChrisF]

24 minutes ago, Josh Baptie said:

....This is like pick n pay moaning at you that they have to keep re-stocking shelves from your purchases and then making you feel as if you must be grateful that you are able to spend your money at their store on the way out.

 

HUGE difference between restocking sold out shelves and having to re-pack shelves where some brat pulled stuff off the shelves onto the floor ....

 

Comparing "routine maintenance" and repairing "willful damage" shows the lack of understanding from so many who post on this thread (not just Josh)

 

 

Its been close on 20 years since I have served on a club committee (I do forward my proxy for each Tygerberg AGM) .... this thread is a stark reminder why.

[Josh Baptie]

2 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

HUGE difference between restocking sold out shelves and having to re-pack shelves where some brat pulled stuff off the shelves onto the floor ....

 

Comparing "routine maintenance" and repairing "willful damage" shows the lack of understanding from so many who post on this thread (not just Josh)

 

 

Its been close on 20 years since I have served on a club committee (I do forward my proxy for each Tygerberg AGM) .... this thread is a stark reminder why.

Willfull damage..
So you genuinly think that peeps wake up on a saturday "I cant wait to go blow out that berm"....
I have a lack of understanding.. but do you have the evidence of peeps causing "willfull damage". Do you know who they are?
Dont be a chop. How about giving some understanding instead of just saying everyone has a lack of understanding.

[Warren Melissa Go Riding]

50 minutes ago, MORNE said:

I came to greet you guys that day at the table at bloemendal to express thanks for your friendly content on youtube pertaining to the local trails. Thanks again. 

Imo - perfect example of the kind of positive vibes that will go a long way in creating more respect between everybody.  

Ahhh yes!!! Chatting to people on here is like chatting to people with a helmet on. No idea who they are when they take it off hahaha. Yeah, we just trying to spread the mtb love and getting bums on seats. We all out here to have a lekker time and the more of us that do that the better. Have a lekker day!

[MTBRIDER1234]

11 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

HUGE difference between restocking sold out shelves and having to re-pack shelves where some brat pulled stuff off the shelves onto the floor ....

 

Comparing "routine maintenance" and repairing "willful damage" shows the lack of understanding from so many who post on this thread (not just Josh)

 

 

Its been close on 20 years since I have served on a club committee (I do forward my proxy for each Tygerberg AGM) .... this thread is a stark reminder why.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. The majority of people stupid enough to skid in berms are also not clever enough to know the impact it has on the trail. Those who do know will not be doing it just to destroy the trails for fun.

I have been in scenarios where you have to roost some berms if you come in too hot or if they are tight - like the ones at hoogekraal. Wide radius berms are the only way to do it if you want people to not roost, because it makes it much harder. I agree with Eddy on those concrete erosion blocks or compacted stone, but that will do a lotta damage if you fall. Those concrete blocks will act as a cheese grater for your skin and you won't slide as easily as you would on dirt.

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, Josh Baptie said:

Willfull damage..
So you genuinly think that peeps wake up on a saturday "I cant wait to go blow out that berm"....
I have a lack of understanding.. but do you have the evidence of peeps causing "willfull damage". Do you know who they are?
Dont be a chop. How about giving some understanding instead of just saying everyone has a lack of understanding.

 

YES !!!  Do you want me to use my GoPro to tape the scoundrels ?   (then again, my GoPro is set to timelapse photos.  And the one time I did post a photo of persons deliberately ignoring trail boards I got told to mind my own business ....)

 

There ARE people that try and emulate YouTube videos and willfully slide their tyres into and through the turns.

 

It is SAD, but is truly is nothing more than "willful damage"

 

 

PLEASE NOTE - I am not talking about the rider that mis-judge their speed and does a short lock-up, then modulate the brakes.

[ChrisF]

4 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. The majority of people stupid enough to skid in berms are also not clever enough to know the impact it has on the trail. Those who do know will not be doing it just to destroy the trails for fun.

I have been in scenarios where you have to roost some berms if you come in too hot or if they are tight - like the ones at hoogekraal. Wide radius berms are the only way to do it if you want people to not roost, because it makes it much harder. I agree with Eddy on those concrete erosion blocks or compacted stone, but that will do a lotta damage if you fall. Those concrete blocks will act as a cheese grater for your skin and you won't slide as easily as you would on dirt.

 

The mind boggels ....

 

So their ignorance is an excuse ?

 

 

PS - As per my previous post, NOT refering to the odd lock up.  These are riders that session and repeatedly roost and drag brakes turn after turn ....  

[MORNE]

24 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

HUGE difference between restocking sold out shelves and having to re-pack shelves where some brat pulled stuff off the shelves onto the floor ....

 

EVEN THEN, I can guarantee you PnP wouldn't send out official comms letting customers know that they authorise "moerse PK's" (even IF tongue in cheek) if said brat should be caught in the act. You are till trying to justify it I think. 

Lets put the ball right back in the other court for that matter....It's obvious that some on here are STAUNCH supporters - which is fine. Again, nobody is personally attacking anyone.

But maybe people are letting their personal relationships with or their positions in the club perhaps cloud their reasonable judgment on what is considered the wrong way to say and do things vs what is the right way to say and do things  - that promotes more "Goosfraba" overall -

(yes thats an anger managment movie reference lol)

Edited October 11, 2022 by MORNE