Meerendal (Durbanville) MTB Trails has a Hiking problem

[Scary Rider]

15 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Isn't this just going round in circles?

Cars would say the same of bikes. Runners will tell you they run on cycle tracks because they are often within a closed off or monitored area and are 'safe' compared to the wild trails of the mountain.

I've seen cyclists ride in the road right next to the bike lane

Running on the pavement sucks. Up and down, dodging people walking, side streets etc

It comes down to people and 'the right' which people assume is theirs to make their own life easier/safer.

If we all accepted that safety of those around us was the singular most important thing, we would all make better decisions and be less quick to get annoyed when our views don't align.

I'm certainly not condoning running on MTB specific trails nor riding on Hiking trails, but rather suggesting that we would all do well to be less inclined to be in a rush/ perpetual race, while driving, running, cycling etc

 

Better safe than sorry, and better late than never...

[Shebeen]

22 hours ago, Bub Marley said:

Just to add to this. Meerendal are like geared towards trail running. I would say even more so than mtb’ing. That place is full of runners on weeke ylonds especially. So I would say if it bothers you that much perhaps don’t visit over a weekend. There are loads of other trails in the area where there are no runners. 

The weird thing is they must have paid big money for the Epic Prologue, you'd expect it should be a bike focused rather than running!

[Mike Nel]

On 5/5/2023 at 3:30 PM, openmind said:

Maybe just stop and very nicely point out that it's a trail reserved for MTBs. Most likely they'll be cool about it and walk somewhere else. 

No. I’m chasing PR’s and do not have time to stop and be polite 🤣🤣

[HeinMies]

On 5/6/2023 at 3:00 PM, Shebeen said:

Short history lesson.

When MTB started, it was mainly on hiking trails. There was a lot of drama in northern California sorting this out. The worm has indeed turned! Which is why we need to share the trails.

https://www.imba.com/ride/ride-vibes

 

If something is clearly marked MTB, then be nice to hikers using them. Education goes a long way.

@ShebeenThanks for your inputs. Although interesting, it is a bit irrelevant...You seem to be missing the point being made. Certain trails are not meant to be shared for obvious safety concerns. Be nice to hikers and share the trails...this butterflies and unicorns approach is going to land people in hospital with serious injuries. Certain trails we can most definitely share with each other where it is safe and practical to do so, and we do that in multiple locations. But MTB specific trails where it is a narrow single track with high speed berms and fast flowing trails sections where you don't always have clear line of sight of the next section of trail....is no place for hikers to be unless they want to get seriously hurt. Education is relevant however and does go a long way...hikers need to educate themselves to get familiar with the signs and clearly marked MTB trails if they want to prevent themselves from getting hurt.

[HeinMies]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:20 PM, Me rida my bicycle said:

See I have a plan that's never failed, I just scream "no brakes" and look out of control. They usually jump or dive out of the way 😂🤣

Haha. I will try this out thanks!

[HeinMies]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:09 PM, Jewbacca said:

Isn't this just going round in circles?

Cars would say the same of bikes. Runners will tell you they run on cycle tracks because they are often within a closed off or monitored area and are 'safe' compared to the wild trails of the mountain.

I've seen cyclists ride in the road right next to the bike lane

Running on the pavement sucks. Up and down, dodging people walking, side streets etc

It comes down to people and 'the right' which people assume is theirs to make their own life easier/safer.

If we all accepted that safety of those around us was the singular most important thing, we would all make better decisions and be less quick to get annoyed when our views don't align.

I'm certainly not condoning running on MTB specific trails nor riding on Hiking trails, but rather suggesting that we would all do well to be less inclined to be in a rush/ perpetual race, while driving, running, cycling etc

 

I am not even going to comment on road cycling because that is opening a whole other can of worms... just specifically talking about MTB built tracks and trails made for the sole purpose of the MTB enthusiasts. Your last comment misses the point a bit... the whole point for the overwhelming  majority of the MTB tracks is to race!! Lol.

People are chasing PR's and trying to better their skills and a lot of people are training for actual races. The whole point and attraction of the sport is the "race" aspect of it, the adrenalin. And a lot of the trail networks have been built for this sole purpose. You don't don't build a berm on a MTB track because you want people to take it slow and easy in the corners...it is there to go as fast as possible through the corner! I understand what you are trying to get at...but the majority of the MTB specific single tracks and the MTB community is about racing and speed....that's what makes it fun for most people. And once again I am referring to the purpose driven MTB single tracks.

There are many trail networks and sections that can be shared and that everyone is willing to share, but the same cannot be applied to a purposefully built MTB track that was designed and built for MTB's to go down as fast as they possibly can. It should be treated differently and the same rules of being nice and sharing cannot apply here without people getting hurt. If I decide to take my MTB and go cycle on a motocross specific built track like the Zone 7 track, I should expect to catch some flak and get hurt by a much faster and powerful motocross bike. But I shouldn't be there because it's not meant and was not built for MTB's and I also didn't pay to be on that track... The same applies to hikers and MTB specific tracks in this case

[Jewbacca]

2 minutes ago, HeinMies said:

I am not even going to comment on road cycling because that is opening a whole other can of worms... just specifically talking about MTB built tracks and trails made for the sole purpose of the MTB enthusiasts. Your last comment misses the point a bit... the whole point for the overwhelming  majority of the MTB tracks is to race!! Lol.

People are chasing PR's and trying to better their skills and a lot of people are training for actual races. The whole point and attraction of the sport is the "race" aspect of it, the adrenalin. And a lot of the trail networks have been built for this sole purpose. You don't don't build a berm on a MTB track because you want people to take it slow and easy in the corners...it is there to go as fast as possible through the corner! I understand what you are trying to get at...but the majority of the MTB specific single tracks and the MTB community is about racing and speed....that's what makes it fun for most people. And once again I am referring to the purpose driven MTB single tracks.

There are many trail networks and sections that can be shared and that everyone is willing to share, but the same cannot be applied to a purposefully built MTB track that was designed and built for MTB's to go down as fast as they possibly can. It should be treated differently and the same rules of being nice and sharing cannot apply here without people getting hurt. If I decide to take my MTB and go cycle on a motocross specific built track like the Zone 7 track, I should expect to catch some flak and get hurt by a much faster and powerful motocross bike. But I shouldn't be there because it's not meant and was not built for MTB's and I also didn't pay to be on that track... The same applies to hikers and MTB specific tracks in this case

Is it though? 

I can still go pretty fast, shred some gnar, hit decent jumps and pass a lot of people on the climbs and I haven't entered an MTB race in years. 

Go balls deep, by all means, but if you see people who aren't meant to be there then slow down and/or stop. Many people don't. They just ride up and then slam on their brakes if said people don't move. Same to be said when people encounter dogs on shared trails. 

It's easier to ride really fast and expect everyone else to get out of the way and then complain on socials if they don't.

The trail runners are seldom on the really steep stuff with jumps etc as they simply aren't runable.

There are a ton of 2 way MTB trails which seldom yield head on collisions, so a bit of patience goes a long way.

I think you are missing the point I'm making. Across the board, all people, seem to be obsessed with their right to do what they want unobstructed by other sub groups. Cars are happy to stop with other cars in traffic, but if a cyclist holds them up!!!!!

Cyclists are happy to encounter other cyclists walking/sessioning/going slowly on the trails, but OMG runners!

Runners complain about dog walkers, dog walkers complain about cyclists... It's an eternal loop.

Do I think people running on MTB trails are idiots? Yes. But I am also happy to stop and let them pass so we can all get home safely.

hahahaha 'training for actual races....' said like I've never done a race or trained for something 😋

[Graham S]

Sort of related, but coming down majik forrest at a vey normal and slowish pace, because we know there are walkers and dogs and elderly etc, we passed some tannies that stood off to the side in a tight section, I went past and thanked them.

As i went past, unbeknownst to me, they said "I hope he falls in the water 😠" just as my buddy came to the same section and heard what they said. 

Totally unecsessary and unwarranted. 99% of the time every walker on that trail yields to bikers and we always say thank you. 

Why be so rude on a Sunday morning after you pretended to be nice in church a few hours prior? 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Graham S

[peepeekaitjie]

How dare these entitled hikers hike on my trail that I pay for? the nerve of some people sometimes

[Vishal72]

21 minutes ago, Graham S said:

Sort of related, but coming down majik forrest at a vey normal and slowish pace, because we know there are walkers and dogs and elderly etc, we passed some tannies that stood off to the side in a tight section, I went past and thanked them.

As i went past, unbeknownst to me, they said "I hope he falls in the water 😠" just as my buddy came to the same section and heard what they said. 

Totally unecsessary and unwarranted. 99% of the time every walker on that trail yields to bikers and we always say thank you. 

Why be so rude on a Sunday morning after you pretended to be nice in church a few hours prior? 

Crashed at Majik Forest to avoid hitting a few walkers at a downhill intersection who weren't paying attention and walked in front of me. I wasn't annoyed as I don't think they were expecting a bike coming down there due to lack of signage and the landing was soft... 

Mixed usage trails are always a risk and I try to ride as slow and considerately as possible always expecting someone to step in front of me

Edited May 8, 2023 by Vishal72

[Graham S]

4 minutes ago, Vishal72 said:

Crashed at Majik Forest to avoid hitting a few walkers at a downhill intersection who weren't paying attention and walked in front of me. I wasn't annoyed as I don't think they were expecting a bike coming down there due to lack of signage and the landing was soft... 

Mixed usage trails are always a risk and I try to ride as slow and considerately as possible always expecting someone to step in front of me

Yup, exact same thing happened to me on the section with the S berm that goes into the forrest of multple lines.

I wont down the right hand very steep section and went head on into 2 old ladies CLIMBING up the trail. 

They said "We didnt expect anyone to be coming down this steep section" 🤣

 

[Danger Dassie]

Looks like you disrupted Helen Zille compacting the lines for you. Show some decorum man! 
Also, I know "the DA delivers" but this is next level mos! 

[MTBRIDER1234]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Is it though? 

I can still go pretty fast, shred some gnar, hit decent jumps and pass a lot of people on the climbs and I haven't entered an MTB race in years. 

Go balls deep, by all means, but if you see people who aren't meant to be there then slow down and/or stop. Many people don't. They just ride up and then slam on their brakes if said people don't move. Same to be said when people encounter dogs on shared trails. 

It's easier to ride really fast and expect everyone else to get out of the way and then complain on socials if they don't.

The trail runners are seldom on the really steep stuff with jumps etc as they simply aren't runable.

There are a ton of 2 way MTB trails which seldom yield head on collisions, so a bit of patience goes a long way.

I think you are missing the point I'm making. Across the board, all people, seem to be obsessed with their right to do what they want unobstructed by other sub groups. Cars are happy to stop with other cars in traffic, but if a cyclist holds them up!!!!!

Cyclists are happy to encounter other cyclists walking/sessioning/going slowly on the trails, but OMG runners!

Runners complain about dog walkers, dog walkers complain about cyclists... It's an eternal loop.

Do I think people running on MTB trails are idiots? Yes. But I am also happy to stop and let them pass so we can all get home safely.

hahahaha 'training for actual races....' said like I've never done a race or trained for something 😋

I somewhat agree, but it also begs the question of where to train when you need to go fast and work on high speed bike control? Also sometimes slowing down or stopping is not viable, or is downright dangerous.

For example, the roots trail in tokai with the large(ish) berms is a trail that you can reach a brisk speed, if you have your technique dialed in. It also has a few somewhat blind corners, and I have seen groups of 50 or more people hiking up there more than once. If I am going fast down there - and see the hikers at the exit of a berm, I can't just stop mid corner, as I will probably eat dirt. Additionally, they won't all be able to get out of my way in time either, so someone is getting injured one way or another.

This is why I believe that we should stick to our own trails. If I need to ride the greenbelt, I never go MTB trail only speed, and always look out for walkers, dogs etc. But on MTB trails, I refuse to hold back. I don't ride for the fitness (although it comes with the territory and makes the uphills nicer), I ride for the adrenaline and the buzz it gives me.

I have 0 problem waiting for a newer rider, or slowing down as not to scare/intimidate someone, but I can relate to where they have been. I can't relate to running, walking up what is clearly not a hiking trail (how many hiking trails have berms, jumps and drops?).

Also anyone saying they didn't know the tokai trails are bikes only is either a bit slow, or is lying. They are incredibly well signposted and the many riders, and incredibly few runners should all point to the type of trails they are.

[Skubarra]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

Is it though? 

I can still go pretty fast, shred some gnar, hit decent jumps and pass a lot of people on the climbs and I haven't entered an MTB race in years. 

Go balls deep, by all means, but if you see people who aren't meant to be there then slow down and/or stop. Many people don't. They just ride up and then slam on their brakes if said people don't move. Same to be said when people encounter dogs on shared trails. 

It's easier to ride really fast and expect everyone else to get out of the way and then complain on socials if they don't.

The trail runners are seldom on the really steep stuff with jumps etc as they simply aren't runable.

There are a ton of 2 way MTB trails which seldom yield head on collisions, so a bit of patience goes a long way.

I think you are missing the point I'm making. Across the board, all people, seem to be obsessed with their right to do what they want unobstructed by other sub groups. Cars are happy to stop with other cars in traffic, but if a cyclist holds them up!!!!!

Cyclists are happy to encounter other cyclists walking/sessioning/going slowly on the trails, but OMG runners!

Runners complain about dog walkers, dog walkers complain about cyclists... It's an eternal loop.

Do I think people running on MTB trails are idiots? Yes. But I am also happy to stop and let them pass so we can all get home safely.

hahahaha 'training for actual races....' said like I've never done a race or trained for something 😋

I get the larger point you are making - but in this case the Meerendal mtb trails and trail running trails are clearly split and marked, so on the mtb singletrack you really shouldn't be encountering walkers and runners. We don't know if the walkers are ignorant or deliberate, so let the OP have his rant if it makes him feel better 🙂

I usually only ride Meerendal on week days when its quiet so haven't really had the problem, the odd trail runner I encounter taking the chance on the singletrack usually move out of the way quickly because I suspect they know they shouldn't be there.

[HeinMies]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:55 PM, Bub Marley said:

Just to add to this. Meerendal are like geared towards trail running. I would say even more so than mtb’ing. That place is full of runners on weekends especially. So I would say if it bothers you that much perhaps don’t visit over a weekend. There are loads of other trails in the area where there are no runners. 

@Bub MarleyI am just gonna call a spade a spade...But it is a bit of a silly comment. lol. Don't ride the MTB trails that were completely and purposely built and created by the MTB club that I pay membership to...and also being maintained with the same membership fees. And just because some entitled hikers can't stick to the hiking trails that have been exclusively assigned to them...but insist on using the MTB specific trails that they shouldn't be on... Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous to expect that mate? Seriously...It's not like the hikers don't have an alternative...

And no....Meerendal is not geared more towards trail running. The have historically been very involved with hosting prologues and even final finishing spots for one of the biggest MTB races in the world...the Cape Epic, and also some other MTB races. And this year once again brought the Epic to the Meerendal trails, so if they are more geared towards trail running it is a funny way to show it...At least one could say they are equally serious about both, and then both need to have the mutual respect to stay off each other's dedicated trails, so each one of these sports can get the enjoyment out of their respective trails.

But thanks for the advise, but I don't think I will avoid the wonderful Meerendal trails over the weekends just because some hikers forgot to check their sense of entitlement. Somebody else on here had much better advice...scream that you have no breaks and watch them jump out the way...think I will rather try that approach and see how it pans out...

[Jewbacca]

18 minutes ago, MTBRIDER1234 said:

I somewhat agree, but it also begs the question of where to train when you need to go fast and work on high speed bike control? Also sometimes slowing down or stopping is not viable, or is downright dangerous.

For example, the roots trail in tokai with the large(ish) berms is a trail that you can reach a brisk speed, if you have your technique dialed in. It also has a few somewhat blind corners, and I have seen groups of 50 or more people hiking up there more than once. If I am going fast down there - and see the hikers at the exit of a berm, I can't just stop mid corner, as I will probably eat dirt. Additionally, they won't all be able to get out of my way in time either, so someone is getting injured one way or another.

This is why I believe that we should stick to our own trails. If I need to ride the greenbelt, I never go MTB trail only speed, and always look out for walkers, dogs etc. But on MTB trails, I refuse to hold back. I don't ride for the fitness (although it comes with the territory and makes the uphills nicer), I ride for the adrenaline and the buzz it gives me.

I have 0 problem waiting for a newer rider, or slowing down as not to scare/intimidate someone, but I can relate to where they have been. I can't relate to running, walking up what is clearly not a hiking trail (how many hiking trails have berms, jumps and drops?).

Also anyone saying they didn't know the tokai trails are bikes only is either a bit slow, or is lying. They are incredibly well signposted and the many riders, and incredibly few runners should all point to the type of trails they are.

 

8 minutes ago, Skubarra said:

I get the larger point you are making - but in this case the Meerendal mtb trails and trail running trails are clearly split and marked, so on the mtb singletrack you really shouldn't be encountering walkers and runners. We don't know if the walkers are ignorant or deliberate, so let the OP have his rant if it makes him feel better 🙂

I usually only ride Meerendal on week days when its quiet so haven't really had the problem, the odd trail runner I encounter taking the chance on the singletrack usually move out of the way quickly because I suspect they know they shouldn't be there.

I think there is an internet 'extreme' being assumed that it happens all the time on every ride?

It is likely something one encounters sporadically. Which means you needn't make provision for it on every corner of every ride. 

But when you do, slow down, stop and move on. Tell them they are in the wrong place and the next person might clatter into them at 55kph. But do it politely. 

That is my point. 

All the hypotheticals are just going round in circles.