GLASGOW WORLD CHAMPS - dirt stuff!

[DieselnDust]

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

It's a delicate balance to get these crossover superstars to commit to more of the season, but not scare them off. In the end it has to be good for the sport, even if the current headline was nino looking for his dummy.

First ever CX world champ + MTB world Champ. He beat MVDP to that one.

Spot on. And the delicate balance has to be more right than wrong because MTB XCO and XCM desperately needs big teams and big names. As impressive as Schurters achievements are he never achieved anything in the other disciplines and as a result his palmares probably has less impact on the sport than MVDP or Tom Pidcock winning across multi disciplines. The interest becomes transferable 

1 hour ago, Shebeen said:

Even though he was 90% of the focus on the last 2 laps, the exciting footage they are missing is seeing these dudes work their way up the field on laps 1+2, loads of insane overtaking that I would love to have seen.  

Gaze was particularly impressive. He had half the fastest laps. If he had a better start lap he could have won. Might have been too conservative but he made it last lap 1.

49 minutes ago, babse said:

What about Gaze and that 2 performances in XCC and the XCO.

Like most, never been a fan of the 🥝 for all his antics and toy throwing out the cot.

This performances was ridiculously impressive. He's attack in XCC was unmatched, he didn't catch everyone sleeping, it's just no one could respond. 

Then the march threw the field on Saturday. How he caught and left quality riders behind was next level. 

That comment when we passed schurter, "Gaze has left the building" 🤣

Another lap and pidcock is in trouble.

Respect, that was proper entertaining. Hope he stay injury free for the next rounds of WCs. Should be interesting 

Gaze is a much more likeable fellow since his comeback. More humble and gracious and apparently repaired his friendship with anton cooper. I have become a fan just due to this. I had money on he taking the XCO world champs last year but then he went and crashed himself out. He was looking most likely to take the fight to Schurter.

his consistency over the last two seasons is less visible unless you follow road and Mtb. 

[Jbr]

1 hour ago, DieselnDust said:

Gaze is a much more likeable fellow since his comeback.. 

haha I had no idea he had that reputation, just seing him on TV I wouldn't want to talk to him, something about his attitude. But anyways, incredible performance at these worlds

[babse]

His comeback with results to silence his critics whilst behaving had made me silently become a fan...

Something about riding Nino into the ground I really enjoy 🫢

[OVERDRIVE]

7 hours ago, Shebeen said:

I don't understand the fuss, because the results speak for themselves.

just one single digit numberplate in the top5. the "consistent guys" got beaten by better riders peaking for WChamps.

Nino moans that people get moved up to 5th row on the start grid, and then loses to them despite the obvious advangtae he had. Pidcock was 30th at the end of the start lap, and still won.Gaze even further back.

 

 

 

so it is not fair, if better riders are still on the fifth row, move them to 3rd.

 

Man that is so cold and so true 

5 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

The whole protest was just moaning for the sake of it. No one applied their minds

I agree totally 

[Danger Dassie]

Imho the protest was needed and well applied, even Pidcock supported it, which speaks volumes. Schurter didn't 'lead' this, he put his name as a signatory (among others) to the detailed letter which outlined the issues and how the UCI's arbitrary application was inconsistent and selective. Consequently, it can affect things like Olympic selections. 
Credit to Schurter for adding his name and bringing more attention to a well-articulated protest. 

The arguments about the bigger personalities are shallow and inherently dishonest. The people who not did apply their minds here are the UCI in their act here, including support for it.

[OVERDRIVE]

@Zebra

@dsw

@Shebeen

@SwissVan

@DieselnDust @Danger Dassie

So I just saw this from Victor. Hypothetical question. 

Koretzky's anger at the finish line: It's not fair, it's disgusting (brujulabike.com)

Had Victor started alongside, or ahead of Tom, in this kind of form, would it have made a difference? Or is the issue just the rule change. Honest thoughts, I come in peace. 

[Jbr]

10 minutes ago, OVERDRIVE said:

would it have made a difference

It doesn't matter, it's not a weekend hobby, it's their job, with big stakes including spots for the olympic games, it's just not fair to change the rules the day before the race to favour 3 super stars (including one that's completely washed out).

But to give a couch-specialists opinion since you asked, I'm almost certain Gaze would have done the double if Pidcock didn't start in a favourable position

[Bub Marley]

I don’t agree with changing rules last minute but I also want to see the best competing with the best. They need to figure out a better way to resolve a situation like this going forward.

 

Moving on from that, I gotta say Pinarello really smashed it out of the park. What a way to announce yourself to the mtb world.

[Jbr]

1 minute ago, Bub Marley said:

I don’t agree with changing rules last minute but I also want to see the best competing with the best. They need to figure out a better way to resolve a situation like this going forward.

 

Moving on from that, I gotta say Pinarello really smashed it out of the park. What a way to announce yourself to the mtb world.

yes, honestly I don't see how a double winner (XCO/XCC) wasn't supposed to start in the 5 first rows to begin with

[OVERDRIVE]

17 minutes ago, Bub Marley said:

I don’t agree with changing rules last minute but I also want to see the best competing with the best. They need to figure out a better way to resolve a situation like this going forward.

 

Moving on from that, I gotta say Pinarello really smashed it out of the park. What a way to announce yourself to the mtb world.

This is the definite truth. New bike WC same time is any manufacturers dream. Imagine selling them with rainbow bands for the first production run. 

[DieselnDust]

27 minutes ago, OVERDRIVE said:

@Zebra

@dsw

@Shebeen

@SwissVan

@DieselnDust @Danger Dassie

So I just saw this from Victor. Hypothetical question. 

Koretzky's anger at the finish line: It's not fair, it's disgusting (brujulabike.com)

Had Victor started alongside, or ahead of Tom, in this kind of form, would it have made a difference? Or is the issue just the rule change. Honest thoughts, I come in peace. 

Koretzky is blowing hot air. 
 

here’s what I posted on a private group:

“It’s not that simple though.

The World Cup startline rules allow for riders from other disciplines to line up I. Rows 4 &5 dependant kntheir UCI points ranking. The World Champs rules were not updated at the same time which was a bit of an oversight on the part of the UCI. 

Then come Glasgow world champs and Mvdp , Sagan and Pidcock all decide to race the UCI receives a letter of clarification from a team asking where they can expect their high valued rider to line up as there’s this discrepancy between the World Cup and world champs rules . 

 

The UCI then goes Oui ! Saffreubleu zees ees a furk urp.

And quickly hold a meeting of the rules committee who then realises that a change had slipped through the cracks and quickly rectified the situation. 

Yes it was late, Thursday night when the change was voted in by the committee, but the UCI does state in the constitution that the rules committee can sit at any time to deliberate on an amendment and vote on that. So no rule was bent broken , came out or transitioned In the process.”
 

No rule suddenly identified as something else. There was an inconsistency and this was viewed as a potential safety concern so it was aligned with the World Cup rules.

 

I can see how an emotional person will cry foul. Typically any rule changes are ratified for implementation the 1st Jan of the coming competition year. But that rules committee can sit at any time if called upon.

 

Did this  affect Olympic qualification? I highly doubt Schurter or Koretzky will be affected. 
Which riders were forced further back due to the 3 roadies being bumped up? 
Pidcock Mvdp and Sagan started 33,34,35 respectively on row5 I believe

koretzky started 47th down from 44, I.e the same row as he would have been . 
his starting position was pooh because he is neither performing on the road nor on the mtb. 25th at Val di Sole, 32nd in Leogang, 19th in Lenzerheide 
 

So I think there’s more a case of kicking himself in the teeth with poor performance than feeling kicked in the teeth by the UCI. He was ranked 57th at the end of 2022 so his start position was actually better than it should have been. This year he is currently 33rd, better but. It stellar. Sagan and MVDp had no Mtb ranking in 2022. 
 

So in my humble view, he’s just being a complete and utter Boar…. 
France has qualified for the olympics but he has tough competition to beat to be selected for the team. He finished 4th with two riders ahead of him having started a row ahead and one on the front row.  So what made the difference then, he was with Gaze , ahead at the end of the first lap if I recall. Maybe he just didn’t have the legs for better than 4th. I don’t see he could have beaten either gaze or Pidcock even if he started on the front row. He would likely have blown earlier ? We’ll never know. 
 

yes timing of the rule change was poor but it’s falls within the mandate of the rules committee so there’s no problem. It’s not a democratic process where the riders participate in the voting. Imagine that mess!! 
 

I still view it from the perspective that the simplest answer is usually the right one and these guys knew that Pidcock , Mvdp , Gaze are in terrific form and essentially that should have been the podium hence the outcry. It was more about limiting very talented individuals further by trying to ensure the worst possible starting position for them. It reminds me a bit of Lewis Hamilton in 2021 spending hours and hours trolling through Max qualifying laps to check if his wheel was a millimetre further over the line so he could lodge a protest and get his title rival kicked further down the grid. These are competitive people who seldom look inwardly for failures 

[splat]

1 hour ago, OVERDRIVE said:

 

So I just saw this from Victor. Hypothetical question. 

Koretzky's anger at the finish line: It's not fair, it's disgusting (brujulabike.com)

Had Victor started alongside, or ahead of Tom, in this kind of form, would it have made a difference? Or is the issue just the rule change. Honest thoughts, I come in peace. 

The same Victor that had this tantrum ?
 

 

[Jbr]

You're making it a koretsky affair, yes he acted like a dick, but it's not about him, a few dozen riders signed that letter against the UCI rule change, even Pidcock said he was against, I don't even understand why some here give their not so enlightened opinion about it

Edited August 15, 2023 by Jbr

[DieselnDust]

41 minutes ago, Jbr said:

You're making it a koretsky affair, yes he acted like a dick, but it's not about him, a few dozen riders signed that letter against the UCI rule change, even Pidcock said he was against, I don't even understand why some here give their not so enlightened opinion about it

only because he's the most vocal. I still have a lot of respect for the guy and cheering for him at the next race but I think he's painting himself into a no win corner. Pidcock played it right. LE the legs do the talking first then sort out the politics later. Omerta may not be about doping anylonger (maybe) but it is still there. When some teams/managers say 'have this point of view then few will side against that because it will be held against you at some point.

Victor is brave to be so vocal but ultimately their grandstand comes to naught because they're not affected. The real affected riders and countries are silent, just signed and walked away. It their fight why are they not taking it up? Probably because it didn't come from them and if it came from riders unaffected what was the true motivation?

[Jbr]

Koretzky had Sarrou, Marotte, Griot, Carrod in front of him, seems fair that he’s a bit pissed off to let three more guys start between him and the other french riders, out of nowhere from a rule crafted the day before. He made the time in his road calendar to do some xco races to get enough points for worlds to have a chance to fight for one of the two slots available for the olympics, in a strong french field. Sagan did nothing to deserve that slot (this season), VdP same thing. Imagine organising your year according to the rules at the time, and 24hr before the race they change and you move back one row as a consequence. It’s unfair. Period.

Everyone sees it, not just the 5th+ row starters, Nino sees it, Pidcock sees it. Why is it so hard for you to accept it ?

Does it justify the letter to the UCI, absolutely, did it affect the end result, maybe, maybe not, did it justify throwing a tantrum in front of the cameras, I don’t think so, but hey who am I to judge.

 

i actually think even to Pidcock it’s unfair, now he has to justify himself, he would’ve wanted to get it without all the questions (although I think nobody will remember this in a months time)

Edited August 15, 2023 by Jbr

[OVERDRIVE]

3 hours ago, DieselnDust said:

Koretzky is blowing hot air. 
 

here’s what I posted on a private group:

“It’s not that simple though.

The World Cup startline rules allow for riders from other disciplines to line up I. Rows 4 &5 dependant kntheir UCI points ranking. The World Champs rules were not updated at the same time which was a bit of an oversight on the part of the UCI. 

Then come Glasgow world champs and Mvdp , Sagan and Pidcock all decide to race the UCI receives a letter of clarification from a team asking where they can expect their high valued rider to line up as there’s this discrepancy between the World Cup and world champs rules . 

 

The UCI then goes Oui ! Saffreubleu zees ees a furk urp.

And quickly hold a meeting of the rules committee who then realises that a change had slipped through the cracks and quickly rectified the situation. 

Yes it was late, Thursday night when the change was voted in by the committee, but the UCI does state in the constitution that the rules committee can sit at any time to deliberate on an amendment and vote on that. So no rule was bent broken , came out or transitioned In the process.”
 

No rule suddenly identified as something else. There was an inconsistency and this was viewed as a potential safety concern so it was aligned with the World Cup rules.

 

I can see how an emotional person will cry foul. Typically any rule changes are ratified for implementation the 1st Jan of the coming competition year. But that rules committee can sit at any time if called upon.

 

Did this  affect Olympic qualification? I highly doubt Schurter or Koretzky will be affected. 
Which riders were forced further back due to the 3 roadies being bumped up? 
Pidcock Mvdp and Sagan started 33,34,35 respectively on row5 I believe

koretzky started 47th down from 44, I.e the same row as he would have been . 
his starting position was pooh because he is neither performing on the road nor on the mtb. 25th at Val di Sole, 32nd in Leogang, 19th in Lenzerheide 
 

So I think there’s more a case of kicking himself in the teeth with poor performance than feeling kicked in the teeth by the UCI. He was ranked 57th at the end of 2022 so his start position was actually better than it should have been. This year he is currently 33rd, better but. It stellar. Sagan and MVDp had no Mtb ranking in 2022. 
 

So in my humble view, he’s just being a complete and utter Boar…. 
France has qualified for the olympics but he has tough competition to beat to be selected for the team. He finished 4th with two riders ahead of him having started a row ahead and one on the front row.  So what made the difference then, he was with Gaze , ahead at the end of the first lap if I recall. Maybe he just didn’t have the legs for better than 4th. I don’t see he could have beaten either gaze or Pidcock even if he started on the front row. He would likely have blown earlier ? We’ll never know. 
 

yes timing of the rule change was poor but it’s falls within the mandate of the rules committee so there’s no problem. It’s not a democratic process where the riders participate in the voting. Imagine that mess!! 
 

I still view it from the perspective that the simplest answer is usually the right one and these guys knew that Pidcock , Mvdp , Gaze are in terrific form and essentially that should have been the podium hence the outcry. It was more about limiting very talented individuals further by trying to ensure the worst possible starting position for them. It reminds me a bit of Lewis Hamilton in 2021 spending hours and hours trolling through Max qualifying laps to check if his wheel was a millimetre further over the line so he could lodge a protest and get his title rival kicked further down the grid. These are competitive people who seldom look inwardly for failures 

@DieselnDust you have no mercy on them 

3 hours ago, splat said:

The same Victor that had this tantrum ?
 

 

The very same 🤣

3 hours ago, Jbr said:

You're making it a koretsky affair, yes he acted like a dick, but it's not about him, a few dozen riders signed that letter against the UCI rule change, even Pidcock said he was against, I don't even understand why some here give their not so enlightened opinion about it

No, was just asking for an opionion

2 hours ago, Jbr said:

Koretzky had Sarrou, Marotte, Griot, Carrod in front of him, seems fair that he’s a bit pissed off to let three more guys start between him and the other french riders, out of nowhere from a rule crafted the day before. He made the time in his road calendar to do some xco races to get enough points for worlds to have a chance to fight for one of the two slots available for the olympics, in a strong french field. Sagan did nothing to deserve that slot (this season), VdP same thing. Imagine organising your year according to the rules at the time, and 24hr before the race they change and you move back one row as a consequence. It’s unfair. Period.

Everyone sees it, not just the 5th+ row starters, Nino sees it, Pidcock sees it. Why is it so hard for you to accept it ?

Does it justify the letter to the UCI, absolutely, did it affect the end result, maybe, maybe not, did it justify throwing a tantrum in front of the cameras, I don’t think so, but hey who am I to judge.

 

i actually think even to Pidcock it’s unfair, now he has to justify himself, he would’ve wanted to get it without all the questions (although I think nobody will remember this in a months time)

Kumbaya brother, kumbaya