the unofficial Cape Epic 2024 thread

[Robbie Stewart]

8 minutes ago, Ozzie NL said:

Your argument would therefore be that the average skills level in the last 3 editions of Epic is dramatically lower than in the previous versions?

Personally I think it is rather due to the fact that the increased % of the route made up of single track vs district roads is the biggest contributor to the higher drop out rate. I have looked at correlations with total distance and ascent and found none but % single track has increased dramatically

your correlation to the increase in singletrack is exactly what I am talking about. People can ride district roads all day long, but the moment there is ST thrown in the mix then everything comes to a grinding halt. Craig Kolesky proved it in his videos.
 

7 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

"who have no business riding the epic" - lots of judgerigteid around today, yoh

What I mean by "no business" is that they should first get the required skills. I am curious how, per example, people would assume to ride Armageddon with very limited to no technical skills. Either the route organisers faulted for adding that rather dangerous line to the final stage, (which I don't think they did - just to be clear) or people again would walk down that entire 3 odd km stretch, holding up the ENTIRE train behind them. 

My take on the Epic is that it should be taken a tad more serious than it seems people do. They spend the wads of cash to get there and "participate" and in the process stuff it up for folks who are capable to handle the tech thrown at them. And that to me is a massive waste of my money, and my time, because someone on the trail is too intimidated to ride over the rocks.

Armageddon 4 rock garden comes to mind. I will bet a fair chunk of people walked that line.

[Headshot]

23 minutes ago, PygaSchmyga said:

"who have no business riding the epic" - lots of judgerigteid around today, yoh

True, but his comment needs expansion. 

Imagine paying over R120k to do the event only to discover numbers of plonker riders  riding so slowly or even pushing their bikes and of course failing to get out of the way (cos they know no etiquette and  their big ego's wont allow it) and therefore ruining your very expensive single track experience. 

Now of course everyone knows that this is what happens on the Epic and lots of other marathon type events so I have to wonder why guys like Kolesky even bother moaning. This and the fact that so many other people come back time and again even though they know the best tracks will be littered with riders makes me think many people aren't necessarily doing this for fun, but rather for a bit of masochistic bragging rights. 

I'll wait for your response 🙂 

Edited March 26 by Headshot

[Robbie Stewart]

@Headshot gets it.

[DieselnDust]

43 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

nah, I watched the whole Craig Kolesky video saga on YouTube last night, and I was horrified by all the people walking perfectly rideable singletrack. To me it seemed more of a case of ZERO skills other than being able to ride a bicycle on a flat, level, preferably tarred road. Anything less than that and there is a global dismount and hike-a-bike for who knows how long.

Another reason to not do the Epic. I would blow my lid every time I get held up by people who have no business riding the epic at all.

The number of social media influencers in the event has definitely increased. The number of people incapable of riding a mountain bike over anything remotely technical has also increased but these have always been part of the event. 
I don’t think it’s easy to point at one particular  cause for higher drop out rates the last three years other than COVID. 
we can’t prove that having disposable income equates to incompetent MTB skills you’d think that they could buy that also although one cannot buy commitment.

we can’t prove that riders are less capable whilst being offered bikes with lower slacker longer attributes that makes anyone a Danny Mccanskill. 
we do know that covid has hit everyone globally with effects not well understood. If we consider the 2016 cape epic used a similar route to 2024, had longer stages in more adverse temperatures whilst suffering a lower drop out rate of riders on steeper angles bikes with narrower tyres and longer stems then it is clear that 650B was a far superior wheel size…

 

 

Edited March 26 by DieselnDust

[Ozzie NL]

6 minutes ago, Robbie Stewart said:

your correlation to the increase in singletrack is exactly what I am talking about. People can ride district roads all day long, but the moment there is ST thrown in the mix then everything comes to a grinding halt. Craig Kolesky proved it in his videos.
 

What I mean by "no business" is that they should first get the required skills. I am curious how, per example, people would assume to ride Armageddon with very limited to no technical skills. Either the route organisers faulted for adding that rather dangerous line to the final stage, (which I don't think they did - just to be clear) or people again would walk down that entire 3 odd km stretch, holding up the ENTIRE train behind them. 

My take on the Epic is that it should be taken a tad more serious than it seems people do. They spend the wads of cash to get there and "participate" and in the process stuff it up for folks who are capable to handle the tech thrown at them. And that to me is a massive waste of my money, and my time, because someone on the trail is too intimidated to ride over the rocks.

Armageddon 4 rock garden comes to mind. I will bet a fair chunk of people walked that line.

I would say two things:

1) everybody has the right to decide how to spend their money ... most Ferrari owners are no racing drivers by any stretch of the imagination.

2) Due to the batched starting system, more accomplished riders will be in the earlier batches and hence in general not held back by those a bit slower. Obviously this holds for most races but as Epic stages are much longer there are way less bottlenecks. So no-one should be spoiling your experience much more than you are spoiling theirs on the segments where they are faster

It is true that you will sometimes end up walking because someone else gets off on a techie climb or descent but in my experience the faster descenders are typically slower uphill as well as the revers

[sirmoun10goat]

For all the technically blessed riders caught behind people walking single track, maybe you should work on your cardio and speed and get into the single track before the walkers.

 

 I’m pretty sure these walkers probably think the technical riders are holding up the show while they try cruise past them on the district roads.

[Pandatron]

9 minutes ago, Headshot said:

True, but his comment needs expansion. 

Imagine paying over R120k to do the event only to discover numbers of plonker riders  riding so slowly or even pushing their bikes and of course failing to get out of the way (cos they know no etiquette and  their big ego's wont allow it) and therefore ruining your very expensive single track experience. 

Now of course everyone knows that this is what happens on the Epic and lots of other marathon type events so I have to wonder why guys like Kolesky even bother moaning. This and the fact that so many other people come back time and again even though they know the best tracks will be littered with riders makes me think many people aren't necessarily doing this for fun, but rather for a bit of masochistic bragging rights. 

I'll wait for your response 🙂 

If your so fit and skilled, then you wont be behind the plonkers

[Headshot]

4 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

The number of social media influencers in the event has definitely increased. The number of people incapable of riding a mountain bike over anything remotely technical has also increased but these have always been part of the event. 
I don’t think it’s easy to point at one particular  cause for higher drop out rates the last three years other than COVID. 
we can’t prove that having disposable income equates to incompetent MTB skills you’d think that they could buy that also although one cannot buy commitment.

we can’t prove that riders are less capable whilst being offered bikes with lower slacker longer attributes that makes anyone a Danny Mccanskill. 
we do know that covid has hit everyone globally with effects not well understood. If we consider the 2026 cape epic used a similar route to 2024, had longer stages in more adverse temperatures whilst suffering a lower drop out rate of riders on steeper angles bikes with narrower tyres and longer stems then it is clear that 650B was a far superior wheel size…

 

 

Danny rides a carbon trials bike with a very long stem most of the time...

Maybe if the Epic 8 had come out a bit earlier, you know around xmas time, more people would have been riding the slackerest marathon MTB out there and flowed down the tracks like Beers? 

[Headshot]

6 minutes ago, Pandatron said:

If your so fit and skilled, then you wont be behind the plonkers

I am somewhat skilled but not very fit. 

Edited March 26 by Headshot

[Robbie Stewart]

@DieselnDust I believe your covid assessment is likely culprit number one. Which brings me to the next question, should the Epic participants be monitoring their cardiac health over the next couple of months if compared to global increases in heart related health complications attributed to covid. That would be an interesting metric to monitor.
 

@Ozzie NL

Sure, I don't disagree, and I could state my position less harshly. I am just not a fan of being held up on single track. I am not a Danny Mac or Schurther even with regards to single track skills, but I can hold my own down a technical line because I spend a lot of time riding them. 

I am stoked for the people who enter and ride the trails, but I would not have much fun being held up (having experienced this before on events I participated in). 

Your comment re batches refers to being seeded in a faster batch, but does that imply an equal improvement in technical ability? 

Look, this year's route would entice me to "almost" enter because it looks fun, but I am no racing snake, so I would be in the latter half of the field every stage, and I would be frustrated out of my mind by day three.

[Headshot]

3 minutes ago, sirmoun10goat said:

For all the technically blessed riders caught behind people walking single track, maybe you should work on your cardio and speed and get into the single track before the walkers.

 

 I’m pretty sure these walkers probably think the technical riders are holding up the show while they try cruise past them on the district roads.

Oh really. but we're talking specifically about flowing tech single track with a few rocks and bumps, not the very wide gravel roads where anyone can overtake, even the single track walkers. 

[Pandatron]

Also lets be fair, getting to Stage 7 of the Epic i can only believe that your legs are effed and that downhill might be a bridge too far competence wise in the reduced state.

[Pandatron]

Glitch

Edited March 26 by Pandatron
Edit glitch

[DieselnDust]

18 minutes ago, sirmoun10goat said:

For all the technically blessed riders caught behind people walking single track, maybe you should work on your cardio and speed and get into the single track before the walkers.

 

 I’m pretty sure these walkers probably think the technical riders are holding up the show while they try cruise past them on the district roads.

That rarely happens. What happens is the less technically gifted hit it fairly hard in the prologue and get a good seeding. The prologue isn’t that technical anyway, lots of fire road climbs and groomed descents. 
the more technically adept riders are also often more experienced and know that going hard in the prologue isn’t a good tactic. 
So cardio Ken gets a good seeding group while Techie Tod is a group or two further back in stage 1. From there there is gradual reshuffle of the deck till the last day when things mostly self corrects. At this point Cardio Ken is cooked and Techie Tod is still relaxed and able to ride everything.

another thing to consider is this saseeding thing that used to be used to seed riders for the prologue. That was more a loyalty system than anything because if you didn’t participate in many stage races you had a crap seeding, in 2018 I head a poorer sa seeding than my W2W teammate despite the fact that he couldn’t ride much single track. He had more events under the belt…

what affects your prologue result comes down to race strategy and the time of day you ride your prologue 

Edited March 26 by DieselnDust

[Robbie Stewart]

Just now, Pandatron said:

Also lets be fair, getting to Stage 7 of the Epic i can only believe that your legs are effed and that downhill might be a bridge too far competence wise in the reduced state.

this is very true. I was very surprised to see Jonkers on the final day. I was even more surprised to see that the "Toyota Technical" zone was deemed to be G-Spot, which is way less technical than Armageddon for one.

[DieselnDust]

10 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Danny rides a carbon trials bike with a very long stem most of the time...

Maybe if the Epic 8 had come out a bit earlier, you know around xmas time, more people would have been riding the slackerest marathon MTB out there and flowed down the tracks like Beers? 

Ya because it’s a miracle they made it down the first vainglorious track on those 67 degree killing machines of 2023!!