MTB weight obsession - unnecessary?

[JayLow]

I recently went through the process of upgrading my mountain bike and I gained quite a few new perspectives around the "bike weight" obsession.

I strongly desired a lightweight (<12kg) dual suspension XC bike, not an easy (read "cheap") feat when you run an XL frame, but in the end decided on a slightly heavier but better specced Titan Cypher 120mm Carbon frame with dropper and heavy duty Lyne wheels.

When I saw the calcs of the impact of a few kilograms extra weight on a climb, I felt vindicated in going heavier - I will almost certainly make up the climbing time losses with more confident descending - especially in the way I ride:

Source

There are so many factors at play when determining how fast you will climb, but on the level I play, bike weight really does not have to be the be-all and end-all.

So, all this just to say, if you are moderately fit, and ride for fun, I don't think it's worth it to spend tens of thousands of Ronds to shave of a few tens of seconds of your climbing time...

Keen to hear the the thoughts of the other hubbers...
 

[BaGearA]

Lighter bikes are more fun there's no two ways about it 

 

Sure maybe xc racers want it cause its easier to pedal when your heart is beating at 99.9999% but i want it cause its more fun 

 

but

 

My previous bike was just over 13kg and ride and felt lighter than that, but it made a good damn load of noise constantly 

 

Different ( but similar) bike now , just under 16kg ....more capable , rides nicer and is DEAD quiet 

 

 

DO I miss the old bike ? Yes 

 

Do I like that the new one that's so quiet ? Yes 

 

Out of the two I tend to lean more towards the new one ....even tho its full carbon with carbon wheels and thin(enduro not DH tyres ) and weighs nearly 16kg 💀 

[dave303e]

23 minutes ago, JayLow said:

I recently went through the process of upgrading my mountain bike and I gained quite a few new perspectives around the "bike weight" obsession.

I strongly desired a lightweight (<12kg) dual suspension XC bike, not an easy (read "cheap") feat when you run an XL frame, but in the end decided on a slightly heavier but better specced Titan Cypher 120mm Carbon frame with dropper and heavy duty Lyne wheels.

When I saw the calcs of the impact of a few kilograms extra weight on a climb, I felt vindicated in going heavier - I will almost certainly make up the climbing time losses with more confident descending - especially in the way I ride:

Source

There are so many factors at play when determining how fast you will climb, but on the level I play, bike weight really does not have to be the be-all and end-all.

So, all this just to say, if you are moderately fit, and ride for fun, I don't think it's worth it to spend tens of thousands of Ronds to shave of a few tens of seconds of your climbing time...

Keen to hear the the thoughts of the other hubbers...
 

As per your disclaimer, that is not enough info to determine climb speed, especially on a mtb.

I snuck  few KOM's in my area the one day because I literally went out the morning after the grader had graded the roads and I sent it on slightly damp graded roads, by that weekend it was soft sand again and no one can get close to my times. Never mind headwinds, tyre pressure, bearing condition and many other aspects.

As for bike weight, unless you are unable to punch your way out of a wet paper bag you are carrying too much weight on your body anyway so that last few kg on the bike is pointless. You do feel light wheels and they feel better and you can feel a pig of a bike is not fun to ride. But those last few weight weenie changes are usually a waste of time. Get a light enough but reliable bike. If you chase weight too much you end up with reliability issues

 

[Mook]

15 minutes ago, JayLow said:

I recently went through the process of upgrading my mountain bike and I gained quite a few new perspectives around the "bike weight" obsession.

I strongly desired a lightweight (<12kg) dual suspension XC bike, not an easy (read "cheap") feat when you run an XL frame, but in the end decided on a slightly heavier but better specced Titan Cypher 120mm Carbon frame with dropper and heavy duty Lyne wheels.

When I saw the calcs of the impact of a few kilograms extra weight on a climb, I felt vindicated in going heavier - I will almost certainly make up the climbing time losses with more confident descending - especially in the way I ride:

Source

There are so many factors at play when determining how fast you will climb, but on the level I play, bike weight really does not have to be the be-all and end-all.

So, all this just to say, if you are moderately fit, and ride for fun, I don't think it's worth it to spend tens of thousands of Ronds to shave of a few tens of seconds of your climbing time...

Keen to hear the the thoughts of the other hubbers...
 

Crucify me if you wish, BUT my take on the weight issue tends to lean towards bragging rights more than actual gain. The bike scene have turned into a playground where most want to be seen riding a 100k bike rather than something that truly works for them. Yea sure ........................ I will never admit that me 100k "investment" is actually a crap ride compared to the 40k bike I had.

Calculations are usually done given perfect or largely generic sets of variables, which incidentally does not apply to your typical weekend warrior cyclist. 

Last time I heard you look at shaving 100 grams off your bike's weight at a cost of R1k. Reducing your ride's weight by 1 kg could potentially set you back by 9-12k.

Is it worth the money - I do not think so, unless you can realistically make podium in 20% of the races you ride - OR bragging rights is your thang 

[thebob]

After some of the shenanigans I saw at the Amohela Classic on the weekend, I'd suggest that skills and vasbyt are far more important than the weight of your bicycle

Edited May 21 by thebob

[JayLow]

31 minutes ago, dave303e said:

unless you are unable to punch your way out of a wet paper bag you are carrying too much weight on your body anyway

Haha this is such a funny picture! Yep, I can definitely stand to lose about 5kg - less food and less expensive gear means that this would also be great for my wallet!

52 minutes ago, BaGearA said:

Lighter bikes are more fun

And the definition of fun also varies - just like with climbing speed. As you say many features determine fun and weight is just one of them! My previous 100mm XC bike was lighter than my current 120mm ripper, but the ripper is more fun because it has more progressive geometry, and it's less "lendelam" because it's newer!

 

22 minutes ago, Mook said:

the weight issue tends to lean towards bragging rights more than actual gain

absolutely agree! Our Saffa culture is big on status symbols (just look at all the luxury SUVs on the road) and a lightweight R150k Trek Supercaliber ridden by a round ballie radiates that baller message...

 

17 minutes ago, thebob said:

skills and vasbyt > weight of your bicycle

Louder for the people in the back!

 

 

Looking forward to some dissenting voices, we have a nice echo chamber going at the moment...

Edited May 21 by JayLow
spelling

[Nic Brigando]

Fun > Reliability > Weight.

That being said, at the start of the year I built an 11.5kg carbon hardtail to swap over from my 17.8kg steel enduro bike, and there is an incredible difference. Faster on everything pointing up, and my average pace on mtb rides went from around 17kmh to around 21kmh. This is obviously anecdotal evidence - that may be the weight, or the lack of rear (coil) suspension, or the lighter wheels, or the thinner tyres, or even reluctance to take sketchier trails (don't want to crack your carbon frame) - but more likely a big combination of all of them. 

I promptly sold that hardtail, and with nothing to compare it to, my 17.8kg heavy steel enduro bike does everything I need it to do, and makes me fitter in the process  she does feel like a pig of a bike to ride at slower speeds, but once the wheels start turning, I completely forget the weight and just enjoy the ride.

[Pandatron]

Weight of the rider is probably the biggest king in this conversation for the average rider.

[Jimmy 2.0]

When it comes to mountain biking for the average weekend worrier power to weight ratio is a big factor. In your calculation that's a 2km climb assuming done on a smooth road surface that is exactly at 10% all the way. take that to a 5km + climb then it will be even more. We are even excluding the technical climbs, gee outs on corners and so on and, and, and.

But you mustn't look at time saved you must look at Watts saved as that is a calculation of energy saved. Plus we haven't even taken Aerodynamics into factor, a lot of research actually shows that a slower rider benefits more from aerodynamics and a lighter bike because of the rider being out on the course longer than the Pros and have more percentage of time to save than a pro. eg a pro does a course in 2H and the slower rider does 4H you then minus 5% saving a pro would be 6min faster, the slower rider will be 12min faster.

But over the years bikes have actually gotten heavier for good reason. look at the XCO world cups.
26er to 29er, that's bigger wheels and frame.
It use to be a hardtail dominant discipline now its just dual suspension. 
Dropper Posts
Wider Tires, Back then 2.2 was considered down hill tires now they xc tires are 2.3 to 2.4
Longer travel bikes. it use to be 100mm travel dual suspensions now Nino and majority are riding 120mm bikes.
Fork sanctions are getting wider use to be 32mm in diameter now they are 34 or 35 mm.

This is because the need for a Marathon/xc mountain biker is no longer to only be efficient on the climbs and survive the down hills now its for the bike to be a good all rounder.

But you must also factor in your body and gear as the rider and the bike are a complete system. the human body has the biggest potential of dropping weight. Losing weigh on the bike is easy as all you have to do is buy the right stuff, but to lose weight on the body and get fit takes time.

Edited May 21 by Jimmy 2.0

[Marcv]

Every gram is a prisoner 😀

[Albert Coetzer]

At the moment I'm riding an Alloy Titan Cypher dash, the stock bike weighs around 16kg but with the parts and heavier duty tyres I've put on, it weighs closer to 18kg.

Would I like it to be lighter? Yes

Do I mind that it's heavier? Not really.

All I can say is that it's a tank on the downhills and I decend very confidently.

At the end of the day it's about personal prefrence, if you love climbing and pedalling, a lighter bike will be mode advantagous while I find that a heavier bike is much more stable on the downhills.

Edited May 21 by Albert Coetzer
Didn't finish my comment, accidently sent it early

[Super Sywurm]

I ride a steel bike with heavy parts.  I don't know the weight.  Yes, it's heavy.  Yes, it's a lot of fun and with a 36T chain ring upfront, it can manage 40km/h+.

[The Ouzo]

everybody knows a heavier bike is faster, just look at how fast ebikes are ?  

[Andreas_187]

That's a big difference if you're riding with friends and you finish every 2km climb 40 seconds behind them?  

[JayLow]

25 minutes ago, Andreas_187 said:

That's a big difference if you're riding with friends and you finish every 2km climb 40 seconds behind them?  

It's more like 25 seconds (the fraction is a decimal, not mm:ss). 
Or you will need to pedal about 3% harder to keep up.
Better yet: spend R30k and save the 3kg of bike weight!

[Ruben101]

What do you guys think about rotational weight?