MTBeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share BTW - nobody said don't fight for what's right. It's not black and white, either - so stop trying to force the argument to fit your frame of mind. What's needed is a bit of perspective. Realise that the world really is just an insignificant speck, so we may as well just all get along. It's the only world we have, at the moment. No need to wage unnecessary wars in the name of your imaginary friend, or your desire for endless expansion of your dominion. Don't be a ****... essentially. I suspect a religious root to the argument. Piston ZA and Readsalot 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted February 21, 2018 Share Don't be a ****... essentially.This. In spades. We don't need any rules except this one. Edited February 21, 2018 by Eldron Hairy and Captain Fastbastard Mayhem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share whoooosh.... if more people accepted how insignificant they were in the grand scheme of things, and just how unimportant their aspirations of world domination were when considering the size of the universe, and compared that against the utter suffering and destruction that their pissing contests waged, humanity would be better for it. Basically - don't be a ****. And everything to do with how small the earth appears from a distance. Or, rather, from his point of view, an awful lot to do with how small the earth is from a distance. Lol. So much back-pedalling. So the profound wisdom that you all are so impressed with is essentially, "don't be a jerk"? This is the problem with Sagan's statement. At worst it's self-defeating and at best it's worthlessly trivial. How many of you guys thought being a jerk was what one ought to be prior to being enlightened by Sagan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share ok so we've heard Sagan's point of view - essentially that in the greater scheme of the universe the earth is pretty small fry. What is your point of view regarding the earth then Corvus? Relative to the greater universe that is. Akon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share ok so we've heard Sagan's point of view - essentially that in the greater scheme of the universe the earth is pretty small fry. What is your point of view regarding the earth then Corvus? Relative to the greater universe that is. Hang on, there. You're assuming your opinion is worth responding to, but in the grand scheme of things, your opinion being part of the earth is also small fry, right? What I see from all you guys is basically that any point of view that differs from your own must be seen as part of a small speck of dust, yet the things you value, that is of some importance. Otherwise you wouldn't bother defending it, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted February 21, 2018 Share Okay, so the wars that should be fought are to protect what is just, and the ones that shouldn't be fought are unjust wars. Nothing to do with how small the earth appears from a distance then, yes? To be fair the little dot theory puts just and unjust war into perspective. Pollution in the form of ocean plastic is a good example of little dot theory. If you throw plastic into rivers and oceans your little piece of the universe seems perfectly clean but ultimately you'll destroy the whole world if you throw enough into the river. DJR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share To be fair the little dot theory puts just and unjust war into perspective. I don't think the little dot theory puts anything into perspective. It's used to subjectively dismiss things deemed unimportant by those who use it, but it can really used for anything. So environmentalism: Who cares whether a tiny blue dot in the grand universe has panda bears or not? Politics: Who cares that a country on a tiny blue dot is run by an orange man called Trump, yet the same people who are now advocating for getting along spend a year whining about the dude in the Donald Drump thread. Who cares that some potato headed criminal ran a country called South Africa on a tiny blue dot in a grand universe yet most of you are glad to see him gone. Who cares what you think on a tiny blue dot in an infinite universe? See? The tiny blue dot thing, isn't an argument it's a self-serving dismissal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Hang on, there. You're assuming your opinion is worth responding to, but in the grand scheme of things, your opinion being part of the earth is also small fry, right? What I see from all you guys is basically that any point of view that differs from your own must be seen as part of a small speck of dust, yet the things you value, that is of some importance. Otherwise you wouldn't bother defending it, would you?ok cool. and to justify your feeling of significance here is a picture of you taken from a veeeeeerrrrrry long way away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranswurm Posted February 21, 2018 Share Hang on, there. You're assuming your opinion is worth responding to, but in the grand scheme of things, your opinion being part of the earth is also small fry, right? What I see from all you guys is basically that any point of view that differs from your own must be seen as part of a small speck of dust, yet the things you value, that is of some importance. Otherwise you wouldn't bother defending it, would you?You are stuffing up a good thread....and why is anyone even debating the issue ? fanievb, 428 others, Wil6 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTBeer Posted February 21, 2018 Share You are stuffing up a good thread....and why is anyone even debating the issue ?bored Warthog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinson Posted February 21, 2018 Share I don't think the little dot theory puts anything into perspective. It's used to subjectively dismiss things deemed unimportant by those who use it, but it can really used for anything. So environmentalism: Who cares whether a tiny blue dot in the grand universe has panda bears or not? Politics: Who cares that a country on a tiny blue dot is run by an orange man called Trump, yet the same people who are now advocating for getting along spend a year whining about the dude in the Donald Drump thread. Who cares that some potato headed criminal ran a country called South Africa on a tiny blue dot in a grand universe yet most of you are glad to see him gone. Who cares what you think on a tiny blue dot in an infinite universe? See? The tiny blue dot thing, isn't an argument it's a self-serving dismissal. No. You are wrong. It is for that exact reason that WE should care whether there are panda bears, dodos, clean air and water, etc. It's the only place we've got and we can't afford to f*ck it up. You see Sagan's speech as a call to apathy, whereas it's a call to care and conservation. You're view on it say more about you than what it says about Sagan. Warren_G, Piston ZA and cfcjim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share "What's needed is a bit of perspective. Realise that the world really is just an insignificant speck, so we may as well just all get along. It's the only world we have, at the moment. No need to wage unnecessary wars in the name of your imaginary friend, or your desire for endless expansion of your dominion. " - Myles Mahew. So, "don't be a jerk we should all get along, while I insult every Jew, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or everybody who doesn't share my view that gods are imaginary friends". When people say we should all get along and don't be a jerk, I suspect what they really mean is that "Everybody should be more like me, and value the things I value". Myles here's seems to think it's okay to be a jerk to religious people, because he doesn't value such things, and that belies his pretense of virtue. Everybody believes some things are worth fighting for and everybody thinks it's okay to be a jerk to those who deserve it. Pretending otherwise is to deceive yourself. Edited February 21, 2018 by Corvus forkie, Grebel, Pants Boy and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldron Posted February 21, 2018 Share I don't think the little dot theory puts anything into perspective. It's used to subjectively dismiss things deemed unimportant by those who use it, but it can really used for anything. So environmentalism: Who cares whether a tiny blue dot in the grand universe has panda bears or not? Politics: Who cares that a country on a tiny blue dot is run by an orange man called Trump, yet the same people who are now advocating for getting along spend a year whining about the dude in the Donald Drump thread. Who cares that some potato headed criminal ran a country called South Africa on a tiny blue dot in a grand universe yet most of you are glad to see him gone. Who cares what you think on a tiny blue dot in an infinite universe? See? The tiny blue dot thing, isn't an argument it's a self-serving dismissal. This where interpretation comes into it... You seem to interpret the blue dot theory from a nihilistic point of view. Me - I see it more as a relative importance point of view. What happens in one small part of the room, house, street, neighborhood, county, province, country, continent, planet etc might seem insignificant to each of those entities until the reaction on the next entity is measured. Each to their own interpretation I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share ok cool. and to justify your feeling of significance here is a picture of you taken from a veeeeeerrrrrry long way away main-qimg-3254a8e2d99608d590d2971b19ba580a-c.jpg No. You are wrong. It is for that exact reason that WE should care whether there are panda bears, dodos, clean air and water, etc. It's the only place we've got and we can't afford to f*ck it up. Right, I figured the environment or Trump would elicit a response. Aside from merely asserting that we can't afford to f*ck the earth up, what is your case for why that is important in the history and scope of the cosmos? You see Sagan's speech as a call to apathy, whereas it's a call to care and conservation. You're view on it say more about you than what it says about Sagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showtime Posted February 21, 2018 Share This where interpretation comes into it... You seem to interpret the blue dot theory from a nihilistic point of view. Me - I see it more as a relative importance point of view. What happens in one small part of the room, house, street, neighborhood, county, province, country, continent, planet etc might seem insignificant to each of those entities until the reaction on the next entity is measured. Each to their own interpretation I guess. I really shouldn't have to google words on the awesome thread. This is for guys like me who pretend to read but prefer pictures. Spoke101 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Posted February 21, 2018 Share You are stuffing up a good thread....and why is anyone even debating the issue ? But, I thought we should just all get along? What about tolerating points of view other than your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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