Cyclists with a "Running" Problem

[GrantMcD1]

No doubt Joshua Cheptegei is going to be one the greatest distance runners and not to take away anything from his effort but I don’t agree with having the lights alongside the track pacing the runners. It completely takes away the individual runners skill to pace himself and must make their life far easier.

 

Where do we draw the line to say a record was broken by an athletes ability as opposed to advances in technology?

 

Edit: to me this is similar to Eliud Kipchoge’s 1:59 where it was not considered an official record due to amongst other things having pacers switching out and a lead pace car so he could be perfectly paced for the entire effort. Why should the pace lights be any different?

Edited October 8, 2020 by GrantMcD1

[Chris_]

No doubt Joshua Cheptegei is going to be one the greatest distance runners and not to take away anything from his effort but I don’t agree with having the lights alongside the track pacing the runners. It completely takes away the individual runners skill to pace himself and must make their life far easier.

 

Where do we draw the line to say a record was broken by an athletes ability as opposed to advances in technology?

 

Edit: to me this is similar to Eliud Kipchoge’s 1:59 where it was not considered an official record due to amongst other things having pacers switching out and a lead pace car so he could be perfectly paced for the entire effort. Why should the pace lights be any different?

 

Its the same as the shoe debate - and there will always be two sides to the argument. You can say the same for nutrition, track surfaces, smart watches, probably quite a lot. Ultimately I think technology is inevitable. I sure wouldn't like to be the person setting the rules though.

 

I try not think about it too much, there is still a human underneath all these gadgets and wizardry operating at the absolute pinnacle a human body can possibly be, and thats enough for me.

[Edgar]

Are you trying to be divisive? Put somebody in the shoes and give them a light to follow and off they go and break the record?

 

Technology drives advances. Records have always been broken by individuals that embrace the tech, Bekele was using the best tech available when he set the record.

 

The use of lights is not new, it was first done in the 90's. What has likely had a bigger impact is a different approach to pacing. Even splits across the event as opposed to all out and hang on, the changes in this has been fairly central to the records that have fallen in the last 12-18 months. A lot of athletes use gps watches and now even power measuring devices while running (not to mention the in cycling) to measure effort. 

 

 

No doubt Joshua Cheptegei is going to be one the greatest distance runners and not to take away anything from his effort but I don’t agree with having the lights alongside the track pacing the runners. It completely takes away the individual runners skill to pace himself and must make their life far easier.

Where do we draw the line to say a record was broken by an athletes ability as opposed to advances in technology?

Edit: to me this is similar to Eliud Kipchoge’s 1:59 where it was not considered an official record due to amongst other things having pacers switching out and a lead pace car so he could be perfectly paced for the entire effort. Why should the pace lights be any different?

[Vetplant]

No doubt Joshua Cheptegei is going to be one the greatest distance runners and not to take away anything from his effort but I don’t agree with having the lights alongside the track pacing the runners. It completely takes away the individual runners skill to pace himself and must make their life far easier.

 

Where do we draw the line to say a record was broken by an athletes ability as opposed to advances in technology?

 

Edit: to me this is similar to Eliud Kipchoge’s 1:59 where it was not considered an official record due to amongst other things having pacers switching out and a lead pace car so he could be perfectly paced for the entire effort. Why should the pace lights be any different?

I tend to agree a little bit, pacing is a major part of running a good time. Now that is done for the runner.

 

But there are so many different ways to pace effectively. Even a GPS watch is a form of artificial pacing, we surely aren't going to ban them anytime soon. The lights are now just the pinnacle of giving them step-by-step pacing right through the event.

 

The explainer article around the Wavelight technology notes that it helped a big bunch of athletes to run Olympic qualifying times for something like the 5000m event. 

 

What would be interesting, is how racing tactics evolve when the field is competitive... Do you go out harder at some point to see if the others can follow. Or what if nobody is able to stick to the requested pace, then the normal race craft will have to kick in.

[shaper]

I tend to agree a little bit, pacing is a major part of running a good time. Now that is done for the runner.

 

But there are so many different ways to pace effectively. Even a GPS watch is a form of artificial pacing, we surely aren't going to ban them anytime soon. The lights are now just the pinnacle of giving them step-by-step pacing right through the event.

 

The explainer article around the Wavelight technology notes that it helped a big bunch of athletes to run Olympic qualifying times for something like the 5000m event. 

 

What would be interesting, is how racing tactics evolve when the field is competitive... Do you go out harder at some point to see if the others can follow. Or what if nobody is able to stick to the requested pace, then the normal race craft will have to kick in.

Before the lights, most races had 2 or 3 pacers who dropped out, so it no real difference.  Just that the human pacers are out of a job

 

What it does add is for the spectators, either in the stands or on TV who can see the lights and see whether they are on for a new record.  So it adds to the interactive viewing.  Same way as they have introduced a pool line in swimming where you can see how the lead swimmers are doing against WR pace.

 

Unless the runner is going for an all out WR attempt, race tactics between athletes will still play a big part and probably be the deciding factor in the majority of races and not sticking to following lights.

[travisza]

Are you trying to be divisive? Put somebody in the shoes and give them a light to follow and off they go and break the record?

 

Technology drives advances. Records have always been broken by individuals that embrace the tech, Bekele was using the best tech available when he set the record.

 

The use of lights is not new, it was first done in the 90's. What has likely had a bigger impact is a different approach to pacing. Even splits across the event as opposed to all out and hang on, the changes in this has been fairly central to the records that have fallen in the last 12-18 months. A lot of athletes use gps watches and now even power measuring devices while running (not to mention the in cycling) to measure effort. 

Haha, of course he is. Don't get sucked in.

 

10,000m is around 25 laps. He ran 26min. Means that even if there was only the pace clock at the finish he would still see his pace every minute or so and could easily make adjustments. For sure the lights help, but that's not the reason he broke the record.

 

Besides, by the time you are aiming for a WR you know what WR pace feels like. Eyes closed. 

[travisza]

Before the lights, most races had 2 or 3 pacers who dropped out, so it no real difference.  Just that the human pacers are out of a job

 

What it does add is for the spectators, either in the stands or on TV who can see the lights and see whether they are on for a new record.  So it adds to the interactive viewing.  Same way as they have introduced a pool line in swimming where you can see how the lead swimmers are doing against WR pace.

 

Unless the runner is going for an all out WR attempt, race tactics between athletes will still play a big part and probably be the deciding factor in the majority of races and not sticking to following lights.

Yup...its much cooler for us on TV to see

[Vetplant]

Before the lights, most races had 2 or 3 pacers who dropped out, so it no real difference.  Just that the human pacers are out of a job

 

What it does add is for the spectators, either in the stands or on TV who can see the lights and see whether they are on for a new record.  So it adds to the interactive viewing.  Same way as they have introduced a pool line in swimming where you can see how the lead swimmers are doing against WR pace.

 

Unless the runner is going for an all out WR attempt, race tactics between athletes will still play a big part and probably be the deciding factor in the majority of races and not sticking to following lights.

And every once in a while those pacers made a complete hash of it, which was entertaining to watch... They probably will still have a job to fulfill, but maybe they will be rebranded as lead-out runners, to act as wind-shields during the early parts, which as I understand still has major benefits.

[b-rad]

And every once in a while those pacers made a complete hash of it, which was entertaining to watch... They probably will still have a job to fulfill, but maybe they will be rebranded as lead-out runners, to act as wind-shields during the early parts, which as I understand still has major benefits.

At 23km/hr it certainly does

[Chris_]

Oh, Emil Zatopek called, he asked for anyone who didn't run on a dirt track and in these please be struck off the record books... 

 

[GrantMcD1]

Are you trying to be divisive? Put somebody in the shoes and give them a light to follow and off they go and break the record?

 

Technology drives advances. Records have always been broken by individuals that embrace the tech, Bekele was using the best tech available when he set the record.

 

The use of lights is not new, it was first done in the 90's. What has likely had a bigger impact is a different approach to pacing. Even splits across the event as opposed to all out and hang on, the changes in this has been fairly central to the records that have fallen in the last 12-18 months. A lot of athletes use gps watches and now even power measuring devices while running (not to mention the in cycling) to measure effort.

I’m not at all trying to be divisive and agree technology causes advances Which are inherently good, as mentioned carbon plated shoes and GPS watches have done the same thing and caused the same debate. I’m just interested to hear everyone’s opinions on the whole technology debacle and where they think the line is drawn with regards where it becomes the athlete or the shoes.

 

For example I’m not a particularly talented runner and got myself a pair of Nike Vaporflys to see what all the hype was about. The following weekend I ran a 5 minute PB for a half marathon and didn’t feel any fitter or faster than previous runs. Maybe it was the placebo effect or maybe it was the shoes but I tend towards saying the shoes were the reason I ran faster not my own ability.

Edited October 8, 2020 by GrantMcD1

[Stretch]

I have absolutely no issue with the lights. You are giving the lights way too much credit and not nearly enough credit to Cheptegai. These athletes have an incredible ability to keep consistent lap times on feel alone. I might even go as far as to say the lights give us the spectator more advantage than the athlete. Would he have broken the record with just pacers and a lap clock.. absolutely... When he broke the 5km road record he went ahead of his pacers because he felt they weren't on track. It's all about feel

 

At the end of the day... Challenging records improves what we as humans are capable of.

[ridr]

Very interesting break down of the records (and tech):

 

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2020/10/8-takeaways-after-cheptegei-and-gidey-smash-world-records-in-valencia/

Edited October 9, 2020 by ridr

[Chris_]

Moab 240 starts just now. I don't see Bennie Roux unfortunately, but do see David Goggins whom I expect to rip this one up after last years shambles. No Mike McKnight either which is pretty weird as he's  become a perennial fixture at 200 milers - but I know he was pretty busy at his incredible FKT..

[Stretch]

Very interesting break down of the records (and tech):

 

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2020/10/8-takeaways-after-cheptegei-and-gidey-smash-world-records-in-valencia/

Cheptegai is definitely a once in a lifetime athlete. Come the Olympics, outside of having a bad day, he'll make no farah look like a high school track wannabee

 

As for Bekele.. And that article... To understand what Cheptegai has just done this year.. Let this sink in from that article

 

Quick Take: Thank you, Kenenisa Bekele

 

Kenenisa Bekele no longer holds any major outdoor world records (he still holds the indoor 5000 at 12:49.60 and indoor 2000 at 4:49.99) but his reign atop the outdoor 5,000 and 10,000 world record board was DEFINITELY the longest in history. He held both records for more than 16 years each. He was the simultaneous record holder of both the 5,000 and 10,000 for 5,911 days or 16 years, 2 months and 6 days.

 

What an absolute legend!

[Zama7]

Cheptegai is definitely a once in a lifetime athlete. Come the Olympics, outside of having a bad day, he'll make no farah look like a high school track wannabee

 

As for Bekele.. And that article... To understand what Cheptegai has just done this year.. Let this sink in from that article

 

Quick Take: Thank you, Kenenisa Bekele

 

Kenenisa Bekele no longer holds any major outdoor world records (he still holds the indoor 5000 at 12:49.60 and indoor 2000 at 4:49.99) but his reign atop the outdoor 5,000 and 10,000 world record board was DEFINITELY the longest in history. He held both records for more than 16 years each. He was the simultaneous record holder of both the 5,000 and 10,000 for 5,911 days or 16 years, 2 months and 6 days.

 

What an absolute legend!

 

Probably the only guy who could challenge Kipchoge if both peak at the Olympics next year