Discovery Health - Vitality & Team Vitality plus everything else you need to know

[Harryn]

We had a discussion yesterday at lunch regarding this...AGAIN!!!!!!

 

Someone asked (not in the program) what does the consumer protection act say about this. I've been thinking about this and i would really be interested to hear from someone that knows a bit more.

 

yes i know we signed all the contracts and ate all the cheeses etc. But the consumer protection act is there to protect the consumer against bullies that miss leads clients and then pray on them.

 

Not saying Disco is a predator and i am the prey, but changing the goal posts so drastically (yes yes i know its in the terms and conditions) and then having quite a few people that will not make the cut any longer isn't it a bit of a bullying.

 

This is where the discussion become interesting, people took out the watch after they saw how easy it was to get your weekly goals, didn't that set president. and then Disco went and changed everything and now people without HR monitors or the specific brands of devices are really screwed.

 

Don't flame me, i am just trying to see what other thought about this, i am not too familiar with the CPA to say if this is kosher or not.

*President* -Jacob Zuma (may we collectively vomit at dawn)

 

*Precedent* - an example that is used to justify similar occurrences at a later time.

[lerouc]

*President* -Jacob Zuma (may we collectively vomit at dawn)

 

*Precedent* - an example that is used to justify similar occurrences at a later time.

Afrikaans - my eerste taal...and now you have just made me miss my mom as she always corrected my languages, but thanks!

[HOEKVLAG]

It's a funny thing this Vitality and we react to it. as far as Myles's point of view and input he makes a lot of sense. It was really easy to get the points. Being able to get 30000 points in three weeks was pretty silly and so yes changes had to be made. No doubt more changes will follow.

 

I am not going to try to speak for others but I am curious about how others feel on these issues and if anyone feels as I do.

 

I don't mind that the points are now harder to achieve. Actually I'm good with that. More of a challenge. What rankles is the systems changing and making us change old habits. I don't mean exercise habits. I mean how we record and upload data. Cyclists love Strava. I know people were abusing that platform but it annoyed many people when Strava was removed from the system. Also having to buy new different devices because the ones we use are no longer supported.

 

But the big one is the unfairness I see. Why do I get 600 points for a 2:20 Emperors when someone riding next to me gets 1500. Why is my target going up so fast? Why does a person get 100 points for going to gym for a shower and I get the same for a lung busting Tabata session on my IDT? Then we start noticing a pro cyclist gets 100 points for a ride that would kill 99% of the population and it is game on. We start looking for trouble. Things like the HR zones are easy to pick on so we go after that. And so on and so on and so on. In weeks all the good will created by Vitality is squandered and the piss poor communication coming from them does little to help. Good people like Myles are left to do the work that Vitality should be doing.

 

What ever the fairness or unfairness of it the one thing beyond question is that this is a poorly handled PR disaster. A text book case that could be studied in marketing on how to destroy your relationship with a loyal client base.

Brilliant post!

 

Hopefully balance will be restored soon.

[Rocket-Boy]

 

So i would disagree with you on this. (being a fat guy) my body works twice as hard as the person next to me to maintain the same speed. Hence why i cycled on saturday for 5hrs at 171avg (which is actually 90% of my max) and my buddy next to me hardly moved out of zone 2. I would like to think that i would need to be awarded more points than him as he was cruising and i was going balls to the walls.

Sure if HR is a true reflection of effort then that is fine. Some people have naturally low HR, think Froome.

Discovery have a one size fits all mentality based on horribly old research most of the time because it fits their agenda.

I train with a guy who has an abnormally low HR and he can get out of the saddle and smash a hill with minimal effect on it, he is working damn hard but according Discovery he is just idling along.

[carbon29er]

Fiance just showed me this.

IMG-20160411-WA0005.jpg

 

 

You're a bit late to the party... Was shown in the last couple of pages. 

 

 

I still fail to understand his ranting. Surely his focus should be on making the team for the grand tours and not hitting a weekly smoothie target which he can't redeem in Europe.

 

 

Bandwagoning. 

 

 

Think he is just highlighting to discovery what we are all saying. ? Maybe being the recognised cyclist he is and the pathetic scenario that discovery bean counters have put themselves in might prompt a suitable change to reflect real life....

 

I'm astounded his unnamed pharmacist mate hasn't shown him how to get away with not using a Garmin but convincing Discovery that he is to get his full points allocation for his rides.

[jcza]

Hope they sort out the points before the Tour de France!! Would hate Darryl to miss out on them smoothies and bombs. 

[carbon29er]

What ever the fairness or unfairness of it the one thing beyond question is that this is a poorly handled PR disaster. A text book case that could be studied in marketing on how to destroy your relationship with a loyal client base.

 

Has anyone taken their ball and gone home? How many "loyal client base" have cancelled their membership of Discovery and gone to one of the other medical aid / life insurance providers?

 

I would hazard a guess that Discovery net gain of customers is still massive because they are offering a great all round product. By our nature we moan A LOT, but very few of us actually do anything about it by taking our money elsewhere.

 

For me the weekly smoothie is just something I give to my kids, the value of being Diamond is the 35% I get off airfares, the 50% of my life insurance premiums I get back every 5 years, the 20% or 25% I get off consumer goods at certain stores.

 

What is forgotten by almost all is what I posted some time ago: Up until December 31 2015 I received 100 points a ride with a bonus allocation of 50 if I did something I had no idea about. No matter the distance or time or effort. I could manually notify them of a race and get a few thousand points. My exercise maximum per annum was 15,000.

 

So I HAD to do costly assessments to get to 90,000 points.

 

From Jan 1 2016 and then April 2 2016 I can earn 30,000 points from exercise as can each member of my family. I don't need to do all the other stuff I had to pay for in previous years. And I get a minimum of 100 points a session but realistically 300 as 30 minutes at 80% of age based HR is hardly a workout. 600 in my norm. I'm happy.

 

So rather than clutter up this valuable thread with all this bitching and moaning that is not going to change a thing at Discovery, either embrace the programme or take you ball and go play in another providers yard.

[Rudi Pollard]

I agree with the points changes in principle but they should add more points earning zones.

 

On top of that there should be a way to calibrate the formula to agree to your actual HR stats in order to assist the people with low HR's and make it more difficult for people with naturally high HR's like myself. For me it is very easy to earn points as my max HR is 13 beats above the simple 220-age formula which Discovery uses.

 

They should use the formula for example if you haven't done a fitness test with a certain points table. If you go for a fitness test and they add a max HR calculation which is then used for your points allocation, they can put you on a different points table where you earn more points in more zones. That way it will encourage people like myself to actually go for the max HR test.

 

Luckily I didn't sign up for the apple watch so the only financial impact it can possibly have on my is when I am injured or resting and then I wont get my full Virgin fee back.

 

This is a brilliant idea by Discovery, but they clearly did not take into account that not everybody is created equal...

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I agree with the points changes in principle but they should add more points earning zones.

 

On top of that there should be a way to calibrate the formula to agree to your actual HR stats in order to assist the people with low HR's and make it more difficult for people with naturally high HR's like myself. For me it is very easy to earn points as my max HR is 13 beats above the simple 220-age formula which Discovery uses.

 

They should use the formula for example if you haven't done a fitness test with a certain points table. If you go for a fitness test and they add a max HR calculation which is then used for your points allocation, they can put you on a different points table where you earn more points in more zones. That way it will encourage people like myself to actually go for the max HR test.

 

Luckily I didn't sign up for the apple watch so the only financial impact it can possibly have on my is when I am injured or resting and then I wont get my full Virgin fee back.

 

This is a brilliant idea by Discovery, but they clearly did not take into account that not everybody is created equal...

Agreed fully with your first comment, and something that I've said to the guys at Disco several times now. Now just to wait and see.

 

As for your 2nd point - yes, IF like you say there is a test for max HR and that becomes *your* level on which the percentages are based. Unfortunately if there's no test or verification, it again opens the system up to serious gaming, as people could lower their max HR on the Garmin / Vitality side and therefore qualify for max efforts whilst only actually doing 50%. The long and short of it is that the age based HR is the only way to apply an HR band to such a large selection of people. Some will lose out, sure. But it'll be applicable to the large majority of people.

[Rudi Pollard]

Agreed fully with your first comment, and something that I've said to the guys at Disco several times now. Now just to wait and see.

 

As for your 2nd point - yes, IF like you say there is a test for max HR and that becomes *your* level on which the percentages are based. Unfortunately if there's no test or verification, it again opens the system up to serious gaming, as people could lower their max HR on the Garmin / Vitality side and therefore qualify for max efforts whilst only actually doing 50%. The long and short of it is that the age based HR is the only way to apply an HR band to such a large selection of people. Some will lose out, sure. But it'll be applicable to the large majority of people.

Agreed. This is such a complex situation, and the fact of the matter is that there will always be someone trying to cheat the system...

[wolver]

Agreed fully with your first comment, and something that I've said to the guys at Disco several times now. Now just to wait and see.

 

As for your 2nd point - yes, IF like you say there is a test for max HR and that becomes *your* level on which the percentages are based. Unfortunately if there's no test or verification, it again opens the system up to serious gaming, as people could lower their max HR on the Garmin / Vitality side and therefore qualify for max efforts whilst only actually doing 50%. The long and short of it is that the age based HR is the only way to apply an HR band to such a large selection of people. Some will lose out, sure. But it'll be applicable to the large majority of people.

 

But there is a test? One of the outputs of a peak performance test is your max HR. I guess you could game this too, but surely you have to give people the benefit of the doubt? 

Edited April 12, 2016 by wolver

[Rudi Pollard]

But there is a test? One of the outputs of a peak performance test is your max HR. I guess you could game this too, but surely you have to give people the benefit of the doubt?

You would be surprised what lengths people would go to to get a financial gain...

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

But there is a test? One of the outputs of a peak performance test is your max HR. I guess you could game this too, but surely you have to give people the benefit of the doubt?

Yes, I know. The if was related to vitality approving such a test for use in their active rewards program

[wolver]

Yes, I know. The if was related to vitality approving such a test for use in their active rewards program

 True.

I think the peak performance test is a lot more valuable then the ridiculous "step on and off a box for a minute" test that they do endorse!

Edited April 12, 2016 by wolver

[Wannabe]

Agreed fully with your first comment, and something that I've said to the guys at Disco several times now. Now just to wait and see.

 

As for your 2nd point - yes, IF like you say there is a test for max HR and that becomes *your* level on which the percentages are based. Unfortunately if there's no test or verification, it again opens the system up to serious gaming, as people could lower their max HR on the Garmin / Vitality side and therefore qualify for max efforts whilst only actually doing 50%. The long and short of it is that the age based HR is the only way to apply an HR band to such a large selection of people. Some will lose out, sure. But it'll be applicable to the large majority of people.

 

And I gain hugely, due to my HR going much higher than what the age based formula suggests. My Max HR according to the 220-age thing should be 169bpm. That is not the case, as I comfortably averages that on most rides, nevermind races.

So basicaly even a recovery ride can net me the max points.

I'm not complaining, just saying... 

[wolver]

And I gain hugely, due to my HR going much higher than what the age based formula suggests. My Max HR according to the 220-age thing should be 169bpm. That is not the case, as I comfortably averages that on most rides, nevermind races.

So basicaly even a recovery ride can net me the max points.

I'm not complaining, just saying... 

Lucky you! I'm the other way round