Dopers suck

[Gen]

They just state they are following the law. Which is fair.

 

Although, it was also law in the past to keep slaves. Does not make it right, but its the law.

 

A time period ban does not work for doping as has been proven, in time the laws will change and it will become, you dope, you are gone.

 

If a CA(SA) gets caught drinking and driving, there is no 2 year ban from being a CA(SA) then registering again. Its, you get caught, you get a criminal record, good bye, game over, no rehabilitating and thanks for playing. There is zero chance that a CA(SA) will take the risk of drinking and driving. Same should go with professional athletes.

 

Sick of these kids gloves we use on professional athletes, its the real world man up.

Didn't they increase it from 2 to 4 years I found it was deliberate. ?

 

But it should still be longer.. 6-8 years that way by the time their ban is over so too are their careers.

[Pure Savage]

Didn't they increase it from 2 to 4 years I found it was deliberate. ?

 

But it should still be longer.. 6-8 years that way by the time their ban is over so too are their careers.

 

I still don't understand why there has to be a time period, if there is a doping violation, you lose your license to compete. You may have some tears along the way, but it will clean up the sport. You will also see people taking TUE's much more seriously. 

[fandacious]

Heres another reason not to allow cheats back

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/29510575

 

Convicted dope cheats such as sprinter Justin Gatlin could still be benefiting from having taken banned substances long after their bans have expired.

[Paulst12]

This is all good and well, but to what end does this serve a purpose? What exactly would you do? Are you going to boycott the race post the event if someone is back racing (you are only likely to find out about it afterward)? You can also not be seen to discriminate / slander someone or an event? Finally my question is if someone is riding a race you loved for example, would you cancel your entry?

My feeling is I race for the competitive nature of the sport. If I get a good result I'll be extra chuffed, and if i'm outside the top spots I'll be a little fitter....

 

[Skubarra]

My contribution: Fands, maybe try only list sanctioned cheats and list races that have stated that they have taken a stance against dopers. Let's try and keep the sentiment positive, I am sure that this initiative will gain more traction if that is the approach.

 

So;

"Sanctioned Dopers/Cheats"

"Awesome Races"

 

Only for now. And let's try and convince races that it's good to be on that list, not strong arm them into a corner and lose their support.

 

I would support that approach 110%

 

I agree with this approach

 

It is fine to debate & disagree on how race organisers should treat ex-dopers, but one should keep in mind the real enemy are the dopers not the race organisers.

[Ofaniy]

http://www.asterix.com/asterix-de-a-a-z/les-personnages/perso/g28b.gif

 

Long term effects of doping

[Andrew Steer]

I think that is important to remember that not all of us are amateurs, most of the resentment to dopers comes from the guys who finish second to known dopers. This isn't just about me and you and Fands, we are all big boys and can make our own choices as to who we support and which races we prefer based on personal preferences.

 

I also think that it is important to remember the sentiment with this initiative is a good one. Fands in not trying to be a knob, he passionately dislikes dopers, maybe a bit too passionately I don't think that we should be ripping his idea apart and finding fault, but rather help him in making this as effective as possible, after all we all dislike dopers and cheats, some just more than others.

 

As for calls to list all cheats, I am sure that if you submit a link to a rider being sanctioned for any cheating offense, that Fands will add it. Remember that they must have been sanctioned by a recognized governing body, else the list will have no credibility, it will also just be plain wrong for people to be listed based on opinion.

 

My contribution: Fands, maybe try only list sanctioned cheats and list races that have stated that they have taken a stance against dopers. Let's try and keep the sentiment positive, I am sure that this initiative will gain more traction if that is the approach.

 

So;

"Sanctioned Dopers/Cheats"

"Awesome Races"

 

Only for now. And let's try and convince races that it's good to be on that list, not strong arm them into a corner and lose their support.

 

I would support that approach 110%

 

Nail on head...

 

The site could also be used to support the efforts in getting the duration of bans extended... that is a large part of the feeling bubbling under here. 2yrs is clearly not enough of a punishment for most...

 

I think if a rider actually came 100% clean, admitted his faults, gave up his supplier, paid back some prize money etc etc, we'd be a lot more accommodating on the forgiveness front - but sadly most of these guys drag the sport through the muck, disappear for 2yrs and then rock up on the podium expecting us to have a modicum of respect for their achievements.

 

These are the guys we really need to chase out of our sport - if races won't have them, if sponsors wont touch them, then they will hopefully bugger off 

[Pure Savage]

Nail on head...

 

The site could also be used to support the efforts in getting the duration of bans extended... that is a large part of the feeling bubbling under here. 2yrs is clearly not enough of a punishment for most...

 

I think if a rider actually came 100% clean, admitted his faults, gave up his supplier, paid back some prize money etc etc, we'd be a lot more accommodating on the forgiveness front - but sadly most of these guys drag the sport through the muck, disappear for 2yrs and then rock up on the podium expecting us to have a modicum of respect for their achievements.

 

These are the guys we really need to chase out of our sport - if races won't have them, if sponsors wont touch them, then they will hopefully bugger off 

Agreed 100%

Edited May 10, 2016 by Pure Savage

[BarHugger]

Nail on head...

 

The site could also be used to support the efforts in getting the duration of bans extended... that is a large part of the feeling bubbling under here. 2yrs is clearly not enough of a punishment for most...

 

I think if a rider actually came 100% clean, admitted his faults, gave up his supplier, paid back some prize money etc etc, we'd be a lot more accommodating on the forgiveness front - but sadly most of these guys drag the sport through the muck, disappear for 2yrs and then rock up on the podium expecting us to have a modicum of respect for their achievements.

 

These are the guys we really need to chase out of our sport - if races won't have them, if sponsors wont touch them, then they will hopefully bugger off 

This 

I am almost inclined to go with.......once a doper always a doper......

[Brickleberry]

They just state they are following the law. Which is fair.

 

Although, it was also law in the past to keep slaves. Does not make it right, but its the law.

 

A time period ban does not work for doping as has been proven, in time the laws will change and it will become, you dope, you are gone.

 

If a CA(SA) gets caught drinking and driving, there is no 2 year ban from being a CA(SA) then registering again. Its, you get caught, you get a criminal record, good bye, game over, no rehabilitating and thanks for playing. There is zero chance that a CA(SA) will take the risk of drinking and driving. Same should go with professional athletes.

 

Sick of these kids gloves we use on professional athletes, its the real world man up.

Drunk driving is both illegal and likely to end in death or injury to others. Riding your bike quicker cos you spuiked some sous is very different. I know I might seem as if I'm ok with doping and I want to be clear that I am not.

 

However, the rules are very clear. Certain substances are banned , generally at a certain level in your bloodstream. If you are caught with more than this , you are said to be doping and serve a 2 year ban or whatever. That's the RULES of cycling internationally. Why do people now want to crusade and ban people from racing after they have served their ban? That's the rules , the rules are the rules. Peoples feelings shouldn't come into it. When the rules change , great. But those are the rules for now, and if you have served your ban , you should be allowed to compete again, simple.

[Patchelicious]

Drunk driving is both illegal and likely to end in death or injury to others. Riding your bike quicker cos you spuiked some sous is very different. I know I might seem as if I'm ok with doping and I want to be clear that I am not.

 

However, the rules are very clear. Certain substances are banned , generally at a certain level in your bloodstream. If you are caught with more than this , you are said to be doping and serve a 2 year ban or whatever. That's the RULES of cycling internationally. Why do people now want to crusade and ban people from racing after they have served their ban? That's the rules , the rules are the rules. Peoples feelings shouldn't come into it. When the rules change , great. But those are the rules for now, and if you have served your ban , you should be allowed to compete again, simple.

And they can and do race the CSA races, BS just won a race there.

 

Fortunately rules also state that privately run events can refuse entry to people if they want.

So if some privately run races decide to ban dopers, then that decision must be accepted, doesnt mean you MUST support them, in the same vein that if privately run races decide to allow dopers, thats their decision, but that doesnt mean you MUST boycott them...

[Pure Savage]

Drunk driving is both illegal and likely to end in death or injury to others. Riding your bike quicker cos you spuiked some sous is very different. I know I might seem as if I'm ok with doping and I want to be clear that I am not.

 

However, the rules are very clear. Certain substances are banned , generally at a certain level in your bloodstream. If you are caught with more than this , you are said to be doping and serve a 2 year ban or whatever. That's the RULES of cycling internationally. Why do people now want to crusade and ban people from racing after they have served their ban? That's the rules , the rules are the rules. Peoples feelings shouldn't come into it. When the rules change , great. But those are the rules for now, and if you have served your ban , you should be allowed to compete again, simple.

 

The point of the RULES is to drive doping out of cycling, here we sit 20 years later and the sport is marginally cleaner with athletes still getting busted. 

 

It should be a criminal offence as it is in some countries, as it is stealing from those that are not doping. There are also links with doping an adverse health conditions, so it also ends up killing people. But hey, lets just sit back and do nothing.

[arendoog]

Leave the professional and qualified people to do their jobs .It is not up to us ,the masses ,to decide somebody,s fate in a bike race .There are more important cheats to ban .Like our supreme leader and the untouchables that surround him 

[gtr1]

Let's start off with, I hate doping and dopers. I have seen it first hand, and lost to riders who doped. One day they are dropping and next day suddenly winning. Also had first hand accounts of cover ups from doctors involved. I had to make the choice, do I dope or not. Chose the or not.

 

I do have an issue with persecuting someone for the rest of their lives for doping. Coz where do you then draw the line on any infringements of laws.

 

The fight should rather be at changing the rules to have more ramifications for dopers.

 

Criminalize doping. End up with a criminal record, and serve 2 -4 years in jail. That may change a lot of minds. Also, then let's see how these guys make a comeback after sitting on their arse for a few years. Not training, on dope, while banned and then coming back even stronger.

 

Also make them liable for all costs as well as paying back all winnings and sponsorship money for the time in question. So it hits their pocket hard. That money can be used to further curb doping.

 

Suddenly it may not seem so lucrative to dope.

 

Trying to get a few guys banned from some races is not really going to have an effect on the overall problem. Because the guys that are doping are doing on the basis that they don't think they will get caught, and may never get caught, so the thought of not racing certain races later in their career is not a deterrent.

[Gen]

Let's start off with, I hate doping and dopers. I have seen it first hand, and lost to riders who doped. One day they are dropping and next day suddenly winning. Also had first hand accounts of cover ups from doctors involved. I had to make the choice, do I dope or not. Chose the or not.

 

I do have an issue with persecuting someone for the rest of their lives for doping. Coz where do you then draw the line on any infringements of laws.

 

The fight should rather be at changing the rules to have more ramifications for dopers.

 

Criminalize doping. End up with a criminal record, and serve 2 -4 years in jail. That may change a lot of minds. Also, then let's see how these guys make a comeback after sitting on their arse for a few years. Not training, on dope, while banned and then coming back even stronger.

 

Also make them liable for all costs as well as paying back all winnings and sponsorship money for the time in question. So it hits their pocket hard. That money can be used to further curb doping.

 

Suddenly it may not seem so lucrative to dope.

 

Trying to get a few guys banned from some races is not really going to have an effect on the overall problem. Because the guys that are doping are doing on the basis that they don't think they will get caught, and may never get caught, so the thought of not racing certain races later in their career is not a deterrent.

Did you report the Drs that were involved in cover ups?

[Mousea]

whew - theres a strawman argument if i ever saw one.

 

Did you read the marathon champs thread? was everyone excited that BS won 35-39 and fastest time overall?

Yes lots of people are.

He has done his time.

He has trained hard to get back to top racing form and he TOTALY deserves his win