WTF CSA?

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

something to ponder - PPA went to court to avoid having to have CSA sanction

their funrides. they won the case. they invited Cav to race their unsanctioned

Argus - CSA say no , Cav can't race. PPA sanctioned that event and then in

contempt of their court judgement are now asking CSA to sanction all their

events, funrides and all.

yesterday Robert du Preez was in a collision with a bakkie during a PPA event.

their event was sanctioned and Robert is a holder of a full csa license.

some of his medical costs will be covered.

[Rolling Stone]

If I believed it would make a difference, I would join.

 

But please don't try and make me look a fool here, I do more for this sport than you know. Just because I am not doing it how you think we should all do it, doesn't mean that there is nothing happening.

 

No, I am not trying to make you look like a fool, I am really interested to know if you may be residing in our region.(you can PM me, it will remain between us)  Member or no member, I am sure we would invite you in so you can see what is being done and the enormous load of work that still needs to be done.   Most of the regional exco members are fun riders, club administrators, coaches, the lady that makes sure you get a nice fresh burger at your favorite mtb park, the commentator that made you smile at your last race, fathers and mothers, people that love the sport for the sheer enjoyment that it brings and gave their limited time freely.

 

I am sure that many of them are following this thread, listening to what the cycling community is saying.   

 Of course, there are other ways to do things and they must be explored.  That is exactly why I am engaging on this forum.

 

I have no doubt that you are passionate about your sport and doing whatever you can to promote and support it. You must however understand that there are many more passionate people within the CSA and regional structures that do not get paid for what they do, do not go on all expenses paid trips like one Hubber above insinuated, they just try to do what they can. Like in any other organization that does not describe every person involved. I am not going to go into the politics of our young Nation, but like in all sports there was a change of guard and not always a good one, passionate people threw in the towel gave up and went on their merry way, structures (including finance and administration) collapsed, years of knowledge and experience was lost. In my mind CSA have hit rock bottom and reached a turning point when the bubble burst last year.

 

The chairman resigned, motions of no confidence were tabled, harsh words were spoken, and note was taken. A second shaking of the tree would most probably not be a bad thing either.

People got upset, lost interest, rode off into the sunset, but what are we doing now to pick up the pieces?

 

There surely needs to be at least one body somewhere that manages cycling and looks out for the interests of cyclists in general. One that has the support of the government and sporting bodies. And hopefully the cyclists in the near future.

 

There is enough money available from the National LOTTO alone to start a very big turnaround. But structures need to be in place, development plans need to be in place and people need to manage it properly.

I am talking under correction, but the figures that I have heard that is available from the Lotto on a two-year cycle is something like this:

CSA                        5 mil

Provinces            2 mil

Regions                1 mil

Clubs                     500k

 Take into account how many regions and clubs there are and you can imagine the impact that can be made, and this excludes corporate sponsorships that are not that easy to get these days.

[shaper]

No, I am not trying to make you look like a fool, I am really interested to know if you may be residing in our region.(you can PM me, it will remain between us)  Member or no member, I am sure we would invite you in so you can see what is being done and the enormous load of work that still needs to be done.   Most of the regional exco members are fun riders, club administrators, coaches, the lady that makes sure you get a nice fresh burger at your favorite mtb park, the commentator that made you smile at your last race, fathers and mothers, people that love the sport for the sheer enjoyment that it brings and gave their limited time freely.

 

I am sure that many of them are following this thread, listening to what the cycling community is saying.   

 Of course, there are other ways to do things and they must be explored.  That is exactly why I am engaging on this forum.

 

I have no doubt that you are passionate about your sport and doing whatever you can to promote and support it. You must however understand that there are many more passionate people within the CSA and regional structures that do not get paid for what they do, do not go on all expenses paid trips like one Hubber above insinuated, they just try to do what they can. Like in any other organization that does not describe every person involved. I am not going to go into the politics of our young Nation, but like in all sports there was a change of guard and not always a good one, passionate people threw in the towel gave up and went on their merry way, structures (including finance and administration) collapsed, years of knowledge and experience was lost. In my mind CSA have hit rock bottom and reached a turning point when the bubble burst last year.

 

The chairman resigned, motions of no confidence were tabled, harsh words were spoken, and note was taken. A second shaking of the tree would most probably not be a bad thing either.

People got upset, lost interest, rode off into the sunset, but what are we doing now to pick up the pieces?

 

There surely needs to be at least one body somewhere that manages cycling and looks out for the interests of cyclists in general. One that has the support of the government and sporting bodies. And hopefully the cyclists in the near future.

 

There is enough money available from the National LOTTO alone to start a very big turnaround. But structures need to be in place, development plans need to be in place and people need to manage it properly.

I am talking under correction, but the figures that I have heard that is available from the Lotto on a two-year cycle is something like this:

CSA                        5 mil

Provinces            2 mil

Regions                1 mil

Clubs                     500k

 Take into account how many regions and clubs there are and you can imagine the impact that can be made, and this excludes corporate sponsorships that are not that easy to get these days.

I find it very interesting that you are very selective with your responses and almost with filter or ignore the underlying fact with regard to CSA in that it is corrupt and mismanaged funds! The outcome of an internal self appointed committee was that they had realised that the cat was out of the bag, proposed to investigate by themselves and carry on as normal... to produce a report that to date has not been done and I for one don't expect it to be done or published.

 

With regard to funding, rather than trying to convince others based on what you have heard.... maybe do some actual investigation and you will quite quickly and easily see that CSA lost lotto funding which came to an end in 2016. I do not believe they have applied for or received further funding since!!https://www.bicycling.co.za/news-people/cycling-south-africa-csa-bankrupt-no/

 

Further, cycling is seen as an elitist sport, so will unlikely get lotto funding. CSA have admitted this and not long ago issued a directive that cyclist wanting to enter international events have to be self funded.

[Zeffer]

Love your work @RollingStone

 

We need more people like you who are passionate about our sport AND want to make a difference with a positive attitude. Too long we (us yes us) have been throwing stones sitting an the sideline pointing fingers and badmouthing. Such attitudes brings us nowhere in fact pulls down the collective support so much needed.

 

Keep on Rolling (the stone)

[gogo@]

This is a good discussion.

BUT, if CSA can get their eyes off the 5 MEN at the front of the race (yes, I said men, not even men and women) and look at the bigger picture this might just go somewhere.

I had that from them again very very recently with regards to the event I'm involved in: look after the top riders with prize money (from where?  who's paying that? our sponsors are tight with money too, you know) and the rest will follow.  Well, no.  Actually our event is aimed at everybody, not the racing crew in particular. We want the numbers to grow, that's the point, not support an elite few.  That's what OUR event is about, but we get shoe-horned into the "structure", which is not taking us in the same direction as CSA.

My understanding is that is the CSA-PPA issue as well.

[gogo@]

Another point.  Clubs are run by volunteers but they can be a full-time job on their own.  CSA is putting development of the sport in their hands.  So how do you support development riders?  Where does the money for that come from? Time? Many members just want to ride, not get involved with organization, because... they have families, full-time jobs, limited time to ride. Getting people to stand for committees, run the club and put on events is a challenge of its own. Then get involved in running CSA as well?  We are at least 140km away from wherever CSA decides to have its regional meetings so to get the few over-committed committee members to attend those is a bit hit-and-miss.  Yes, it should happen, but in practice, it doesn't.

[Spinnekop]

All said and done.

 

There are TWO groups here.  With TWO objectives.  TWO functionalities

 

Cycling the sport

• National "asset"
• Professional level
• Governing body with dedicated funds to advance the sport and athletes on national and int. level
• Sport advance on provincial and international level.  Organised events to attract future athletes and hone their skill set and 

 

Cycling for participants

• Clubs and organisations
• People not doing events as professional athletes
• Participation
• Sportives

 

The problem in SA is that CSA wants its finger in ALL the pies although there are NO reason for them to be involved in events that hosts participants.

Professional athletes participating in sportives should not be allowed unless they do so 'non-competitive'

 

 

This way you will get athletes and advance them as national sport heros.  Specific events and training programms etc.

And you get participants (us) riding fun events like the Carnival City etc for some fun.

Compete.....sure.......get a podium going 5min after crossing the line with no prize money and you can brag about it at your local club ride.

 

 

[daniemare]

I can still not understand the Club - Region - Provincial? - National levels.  You will run out of people very quickly with all those levels

 

Why not just Club - National

 

And why Day Licenses? Might have made sense in the past, but with private companies and apps like Sanlam GO Cover, I can get R1 million (with restrictions depending on type of injury) for R30 while I am standing in the start shoots.

 

The organisational structures are outdated. Clubs, Constitutions, Elections, AGMs, Must ride with Club Gear, Disciplinary Committees, etc. etc.  People just do not function like that any more. In what modern world is the best cyclist only the best if he/she holds a license. Come On

 

Here is a guy that wants to help, but, while you have a number of vacancies, the first message is, sorry, not in line with the structures, go to a club, get voted in, then go to a region, get voted in, the in 2 year's time when we have an elective congress, and the current incompetent management made the situation even worse, then you can come and try, after the vote off course.

 

And someone here asked what an unsanctioned event does for development of the sport - Heck, he/she organised a whole event. How many events have CSA, or my Western Cape region organised and marketed well enough for me to even know about?

[Spinnekop]

I can still not understand the Club - Region - Provincial? - National levels.  You will run out of people very quickly with all those levels

 

Old legacy stuff.  You used to join the province.  Top 6 or 10 went to SA's representing the province.  And selection was made for National colors from that.  It worked.  It still works for a lot of other sports also

 

Why not just Club - National

Why not just Club.

 

Screw National.  I don't have anything to do with their agenda or mission in life.  

 

 

And why Day Licenses? Money for CSA.

Might have made sense in the past, but with private companies and apps like Sanlam GO Cover, I can get R1 million (with restrictions depending on type of injury) for R30 while I am standing in the start shoots.

 

The organisational structures are outdated. Clubs, Constitutions, Elections, AGMs, Must ride with Club Gear, Disciplinary Committees, etc. etc.  People just do not function like that any more. In what modern world is the best cyclist only the best if he/she holds a license. Come On

 

[Gen]

There is no trust....so until there is a complete management overhaul I will not pay any fees.[emoji39]

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Bankie99]

By the sounds of it Western Province Cycling seems to be the best run region in the country.

 

WPCA has for the 3rd year running put on a very competitive and and varied race calendar for the 2018 winter league.  They have hosted 7 races thus far  with 1 of them for juniors only and the rest was full race cats from juniors to racing cats since March with 2-3 events per month and they already have another 6 planned and ending off with a 3 day Tour race at the end of Sept.

 

With the whole mess around CSA its no use just throwing your hands up in the air but rather strive to get your region to function correctly so that road cycling doesnt die completely just because of CSA's troubles. 

 

Recently in the Western Cape there was a concern around juniors not having enough funding or races on closed roads for these juniors but the clubs quickly came together to donate funds. WPCA decided to host a juniors only race at Killarney race track as its much cheaper to run.

 

My club then decided to host a race for the benefit of juniors at killarney race track on 27May 2018 and we got our sponsors on board to cover the track hire cost which Kelfords Ford covered. We also approached many cycling shops in the WC and we were lucky enough to have Olympic Cycles and nSquared to donate some prizes for the race. Our main club sponsor also came on board to sponsor prize money and they insisted that we promote not just junior cycling but also ladies cycling and they gave equal prize money for the elite men and ladies which was a 1st for the WPCA winter league.

 

We also approached Heart 104.9FM radio station to promote the event and in future we hope to get onto more radio stations etc. For our previous event in April 2018 we were on Heart 104.9FM as well as Goodhope FM and we approached many local newspapers to print our race ad.

 

For this event we charged juniors R50 and R180 for the racing cats. We also had a open cat which we charged R100 on the day and R50 for all development riders from development clubs. 

 

This year WPCA had a new chairman elected as the previous chairman stood down after 4 years but the change has gone about almost unnoticeable and that is probably thanks to the exco and clubs in the region that show an interest in how the sport is run. The WPCA exco really do put in a lot of their personal time and are not paid for it so its done for the love of the sport and a big thanks must go out to them.

 

Go and check out the WPCA facebook page and websites for more info and past and future events.

 

https://www.facebook.com/WPCycling/

 

https://www.wpcycling.com/

 

Go check out the Cyclopaths facebook page as well - https://www.facebook.com/cyclopathsclub/

 

WP races are currently averaging at around 250 - 300 participants per event incl the juniors. 

 

I know that CSA can be built up again as there are so many passionate and knowledgeable individuals in this sport. I see this in the WC and on this forum but if you are not assisting in any way to fix this then you are just whining and not physically helping to fix this mess. 

 

Get involved with your club to fix the issues in your region and then ultimately CSA as well.

[gogo@]

Get involved with your club to fix the issues in your region and then ultimately CSA as well.

It’s not that simple, unfortunately.

[ChrisF]

No, I am not trying to make you look like a fool, I am really interested to know if you may be residing in our region.(you can PM me, it will remain between us)  Member or no member, I am sure we would invite you in so you can see what is being done and the enormous load of work that still needs to be done.   Most of the regional exco members are fun riders, club administrators, coaches, the lady that makes sure you get a nice fresh burger at your favorite mtb park, the commentator that made you smile at your last race, fathers and mothers, people that love the sport for the sheer enjoyment that it brings and gave their limited time freely.

 

I am sure that many of them are following this thread, listening to what the cycling community is saying.   

 Of course, there are other ways to do things and they must be explored.  That is exactly why I am engaging on this forum.

 

I have no doubt that you are passionate about your sport and doing whatever you can to promote and support it. You must however understand that there are many more passionate people within the CSA and regional structures that do not get paid for what they do, do not go on all expenses paid trips like one Hubber above insinuated, they just try to do what they can. Like in any other organization that does not describe every person involved. I am not going to go into the politics of our young Nation, but like in all sports there was a change of guard and not always a good one, passionate people threw in the towel gave up and went on their merry way, structures (including finance and administration) collapsed, years of knowledge and experience was lost. In my mind CSA have hit rock bottom and reached a turning point when the bubble burst last year.

 

The chairman resigned, motions of no confidence were tabled, harsh words were spoken, and note was taken. A second shaking of the tree would most probably not be a bad thing either.

People got upset, lost interest, rode off into the sunset, but what are we doing now to pick up the pieces?

 

There surely needs to be at least one body somewhere that manages cycling and looks out for the interests of cyclists in general. One that has the support of the government and sporting bodies. And hopefully the cyclists in the near future.

 

There is enough money available from the National LOTTO alone to start a very big turnaround. But structures need to be in place, development plans need to be in place and people need to manage it properly.

I am talking under correction, but the figures that I have heard that is available from the Lotto on a two-year cycle is something like this:

CSA                        5 mil

Provinces            2 mil

Regions                1 mil

Clubs                     500k

 Take into account how many regions and clubs there are and you can imagine the impact that can be made, and this excludes corporate sponsorships that are not that easy to get these days.

 

Rolling Stone THANK YOU for taking the time to reply on this thread.

 

 

Having done my time on committees I am painfully aware of "groups" and the impossibility of making everybody happy.

 

 

And as you say: "A second shaking of the tree may be needed ..."

 

 

I DO hope those are truly passionate about CYCLING hang in there and manage to turn CSA around.

 

 

My 2c worth - this must be one of the WIDEST audiences !!

- It starts with the SPUR Schools league, and similar "racing events" for kids. (our little one will be doing his FIRST SPUR race this Saturday)

- then there is that vast number of "fun riders", they enter "races", but not for the sake of racing.  Purely to get fit, to get out in nature, to have a great time with their mates ... the only time they see the A-bunch is when they see three faces on the podium.  Just possibly THIS is the largest group ....

- then you have the A-bunch ,,, in ROAD racing

- and then you have the A-bunch ,,,, in MTB  

- From these last two groups, and possibly the senior levels of the SPUR league the new generation of "racer" is born ... that group that requires the assistance of CSA to be able to participate overseas, etc, etc ....

 

 

Pretty sure 99,9% of the people on this forum KNOWS this, and may well add a lot more to this abbreviated list.

 

 

Since I fall in the "fun ride" group I have "no need" for CSA ... at least it may be most tempting to take this approach.

 

BUT, see me change my tune if our little one actually manages to shine in the SPUR league .... so never say never ....

 

 

THUS, I see (the concept of) CSA as a small TAX ... those who partake in this sport payes their tax, and the money SHOULD be used to get our new talent to international races and the like ....

 

 

 

Let's agree the previous regime failed dismally in this .... get THIS part going and you certainly will have my support, morally and financially.  

 

 

For now I am not a CSA member and avoid events where I am blackmailed into paying CSA fees ..... Get "your house" in order, and you will have my support.

 

 

 

PS - let me repeat, PLEASE hang in there !!  We DO need dedicated people that are willing to work at it to turn this ship around ....

[Dirkitech]

I'm reading a ton of info from both sides of the CSA debacle.
I'm not biased to either party, I'm just a mid 20's student, given up on the idea of cycling competitively because my work hours don't allow me to join weekday clubrides. Instead, I just do my thing, designing components for fun and rebuilding bikes because that's the most involved feeling I can get towards cycling.
As pathetic as that sounds, this has been my reality since gr11 more or less. I had a great interest to cycle competitively, but my school didn't offer cycling as a sport (A league gauteng school) and me and my parents had no knowledge or resources to enter into competitive cycling ourselfs. My point is this- if I had such difficulty entering cycling at school level in a well-off enough family/school/region, is it a surprise that so many people do not believe in the CSA or regional hierarchy structures?
just typing about it made me lose interest all over again.
will see everyone else on the tar and dirt nevertheless, happy riding!

[ChrisF]

I'm reading a ton of info from both sides of the CSA debacle.

I'm not biased to either party, I'm just a mid 20's student, given up on the idea of cycling competitively because my work hours don't allow me to join weekday clubrides. Instead, I just do my thing, designing components for fun and rebuilding bikes because that's the most involved feeling I can get towards cycling.

As pathetic as that sounds, this has been my reality since gr11 more or less. I had a great interest to cycle competitively, but my school didn't offer cycling as a sport (A league gauteng school) and me and my parents had no knowledge or resources to enter into competitive cycling ourselfs. My point is this- if I had such difficulty entering cycling at school level in a well-off enough family/school/region, is it a surprise that so many people do not believe in the CSA or regional hierarchy structures?

just typing about it made me lose interest all over again.

will see everyone else on the tar and dirt nevertheless, happy riding!

 

 

Then there is also another way of looking at this ....

 

 

 

Our godson is in a school that does not have cycling as a school sport.  I paid for a private skills coach.  We watch videos and talk about the skills, then go practise it.  I consider this as step ONE.

 

 

For step TWO - one phone call and three emails later his school is added to the SPUR league.

 

Step THREE - I will be taking some videos and compile a video that I can present to his school, that could be shared with the parents ....

 

 

THIS is where it gets "more fun" ... time to put up or shut up !!  What do I do if some of the parents are interested, but dont have the skills to teach their kids .... do I just give them the coach's number, or do I arrange a couple of Saturday sessions and see how many kids rock up and want to learn enough to be able to take part in the second event ?

 

 

 

WHY would CSA be any different - when we expect the vast majority of CSA staff to do it for free .... "put up or shut up" comes to mind .....

 

NOTE - saying this in the context of the NEW CSA setup ... NOW is the time for those that have interests to step up.....  

[City Cycling Athletic Club]

I can still not understand the Club - Region - Provincial? - National levels.  You will run out of people very quickly with all those levels

 

Why not just Club - National

 

And why Day Licenses? Might have made sense in the past, but with private companies and apps like Sanlam GO Cover, I can get R1 million (with restrictions depending on type of injury) for R30 while I am standing in the start shoots.

 

The organisational structures are outdated. Clubs, Constitutions, Elections, AGMs, Must ride with Club Gear, Disciplinary Committees, etc. etc.  People just do not function like that any more. In what modern world is the best cyclist only the best if he/she holds a license. Come On

 

Here is a guy that wants to help, but, while you have a number of vacancies, the first message is, sorry, not in line with the structures, go to a club, get voted in, then go to a region, get voted in, the in 2 year's time when we have an elective congress, and the current incompetent management made the situation even worse, then you can come and try, after the vote off course.

 

And someone here asked what an unsanctioned event does for development of the sport - Heck, he/she organised a whole event. How many events have CSA, or my Western Cape region organised and marketed well enough for me to even know about?

what club do you belong to?