Enduro/gravity bike suspension and geo

[Headshot]

The enduro bike thread is getting used for a discussion on geometry and bike set up. As its quite an involved topic on these long travel bikes of ours, how about a separate thread on the topic.  To start with here is a PB article on stem/bar combinations and the effect this may have on your steering...

 

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/exploring-the-relationship-between-handlebar-vs-stem-length.html

[Headshot]

This thread has really taken off :-)

 

I played with my big bikes shock mount and made it longer thus steepening the head angle by .5 and raising the BB slightly. I am running 180 psi out back. On the trail the bike felt very slightly different. Climbing was a little better and I felt more over the bars but nothing dramatic. Pedal strikes were also reduced. I was hoping for improved front end grip but was sadly disappointed. 

 

I was belting down the Cecila jeep track last night. This has a mixture of very rocky sections with many line choices and some flat smooth corners. On one of these I had the biggest front wheel slide of my life that didn't end in a crash. Managed to catch it with a fierce tweak of the bars. This brings me to tyres. 

 

The Butcher up front has lots of tread but has never made me feel confident - I've always thought the slack geo of the bike was an issue and try to ride with more weight over the front in corners. Even with steeper geo and my efforts at weighting the front its just as bad. Far worse in fact than my twitchy 26er hardtail with an Ardent up front. 

 

I think a tyre upgrade is in order - DHR2 2.4  perhaps? Thoughts? 

[Odinson]

This thread has really taken off :-)

 

I played with my big bikes shock mount and made it longer thus steepening the head angle by .5 and raising the BB slightly. I am running 180 psi out back. On the trail the bike felt very slightly different. Climbing was a little better and I felt more over the bars but nothing dramatic. Pedal strikes were also reduced. I was hoping for improved front end grip but was sadly disappointed. 

 

I was belting down the Cecila jeep track last night. This has a mixture of very rocky sections with many line choices and some flat smooth corners. On one of these I had the biggest front wheel slide of my life that didn't end in a crash. Managed to catch it with a fierce tweak of the bars. This brings me to tyres. 

 

The Butcher up front has lots of tread but has never made me feel confident - I've always thought the slack geo of the bike was an issue and try to ride with more weight over the front in corners. Even with steeper geo and my efforts at weighting the front its just as bad. Far worse in fact than my twitchy 26er hardtail with an Ardent up front. 

 

I think a tyre upgrade is in order - DHR2 2.4  perhaps? Thoughts? 

 

Or DHF. Both are great. 

 

Myles will be along shortly waxing lyrical about that ol' gal Mary. 

[DieselnDust]

but bru,..... Whats your RAD?

[usxorf]

This thread has really taken off :-)

 

I played with my big bikes shock mount and made it longer thus steepening the head angle by .5 and raising the BB slightly. I am running 180 psi out back. On the trail the bike felt very slightly different. Climbing was a little better and I felt more over the bars but nothing dramatic. Pedal strikes were also reduced. I was hoping for improved front end grip but was sadly disappointed. 

 

I was belting down the Cecila jeep track last night. This has a mixture of very rocky sections with many line choices and some flat smooth corners. On one of these I had the biggest front wheel slide of my life that didn't end in a crash. Managed to catch it with a fierce tweak of the bars. This brings me to tyres. 

 

The Butcher up front has lots of tread but has never made me feel confident - I've always thought the slack geo of the bike was an issue and try to ride with more weight over the front in corners. Even with steeper geo and my efforts at weighting the front its just as bad. Far worse in fact than my twitchy 26er hardtail with an Ardent up front. 

 

I think a tyre upgrade is in order - DHR2 2.4  perhaps? Thoughts? 

When I first got my longer-slacker-lower I kept going endo and washing the front wheel, but it stopped after a few months without changing anything but riding style (adapting to the bike).

 

But 2.5 DHF front and 2.4 DHR rear is faultless so the problem could only have been me. And 73.something degrees is slack AF.

[Capricorn]

Or DHF. Both are great. 

 

Myles will be along shortly waxing lyrical about that ol' gal Mary. 

nah, he's busy cheating on Mary with Eli.

[Meezo]

When I first got my longer-slacker-lower I kept going endo and washing the front wheel, but it stopped after a few months without changing anything but riding style (adapting to the bike).

 

But 2.5 DHF front and 2.4 DHR rear is faultless so the problem could only have been me. And 73.something degrees is slack AF.

you still wiping out by the way

[usxorf]

you still wiping out by the way

It wasn't OTB and it wasn't washing the front wheel, but you are correct in making that statement.

[Headshot]

When I first got my longer-slacker-lower I kept going endo and washing the front wheel, but it stopped after a few months without changing anything but riding style (adapting to the bike).

 

But 2.5 DHF front and 2.4 DHR rear is faultless so the problem could only have been me. And 73.something degrees is slack AF.

I am loathe to blame equipment, eg tyres. I have tried everything else to get the bike where I want it. Riding my HT has further highlighted the absence of grip up front. The only time it felt okay was in steep corners at JH. I have also seen other people eg Wayne Schell the Youtoober giving the Butcher worst product of the year award. I think he may be right. 

 

BTW, Goodyear tyres are arriving at Stoke next week. Am going to hold off until then. 

[PhilipV]

I 

 

BTW, Goodyear tyres are arriving at Stoke next week. Am going to hold off until then. 

Headshot, what tyre are you running on the back. 

Iv'e only ever ridden two tyres that I felt was at fault for all the problems in the world, A spez purgatory, and a schwalbe Nobby nic. Both had flimsy sidewalls, both on the front wheel. One was OEM, another was a hand me down. Both have been ditched.

But I found that if I trust the tyre on the back, then I ride the front harder, so I'm digging my Maxxis aggressor on the back, it's has good grip and is very predictable wrt break away point. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Yeah, I wouldn't touch a butcher, tbh. That Death Gap® between the mid and side knobs is atrocious. 

 

I'll always recommend a Mary, but want to try the Eliminator (in 2.6, which as you know isn't really a 2.6) It's Spaz's answer to the AssGuy, and comes in the GRID casing, which I really like for a front tyre. The AssGuy Exo Plus (only Exo I'd buy) is only landing mid March, apparently. I'd also like to try that, but it'll come after the Eliminator. 

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

Butcher vs Eliminator vs Hillbilly (another one I wanna try, which is sorta a copy of the Mary)

 

vs Mary

 

 

You can see the difference quite easily. Butcher = Death Gap® - others have transition knobs, which remove the vagueness you're getting on the Butcher. It doesn't look like much, but it makes a MASSIVE diff. 

 

Also - DHR2 is a great option. Savage loves his, and it also has good tranny knobs. Better (well, wider) tranny knobs than the DHF, imo. 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Captain Fatbastard Mayhem

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

but basically, any of the Eliminator, Mary, Hillbilly, DHR2, DHF or AssGuy will be better than the Butcher. 

[Eddy Gordo]

I am on a wtb convict upfront. The more i learn this tyre the more i like it. Hardpack to loose ground, it holds firm. Just a bit heavy tho but i dont mind 

 


 

[Odinson]

The only fron tyre where I've felt that I can't hold an off camber line has been my Conti Der Barons. Braking and straight line grip was good, but the more I rode it, the more I realised it just did not want to corner. 

[Eddy Gordo]

O, and yes fully agree with Mayhem! Transitions knobs are the tits, greatest feedback thru corners so u know where the bike is going.