Rant: Bad Deals

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

Buying on Bikehub has become an exercise in futility. Say, somehow, magically, you find yourself first in line for a good deal, before the leaches (sorry - resellers, apparently some smooth brain hubbers consider this business savvy). You're excited! A new bike to actually ride (not just take rubbish photos of, describe incorrectly and put a R15k markup on). Don't count those chickens - the likelihood that the seller actually sticks to their word and keeps it for you is lower than 20%, if my experience is representative. 

I am tired and angry of making a deal, confirming it verbally on the phone, arranging to pick up a bike at the most convenient time for the seller, and then having the seller message me and say it's been sold while I'm on my way. This is a serious lack of  honesty or sticking to your word.

This isn't even a hard system to correct. I've been active on forums for something like 20 years now, and without a doubt Bikehub is the worst of the bunch. Two simple tweaks would fix this: charge resellers a more significant sum to operate, levelling the playing field a bit, and use that money to run the site and ensure there is someone to moderate disputes. Two or three strikes and you're out. How is it possible that there are so many sellers with serious allegations against them and 1 star reviews running free? 

Yeah, Matt and the other admins are good with outright scams. Good luck getting a response on anything else - emails, direct messages, and the help chat have all so far yielded nothing more than radio silence. 

I'll throw an aside out here for the trolls that are sure to congregate: this has exclusively happened with mountain bikes. For some reason, the roadies seem like decent bunch in comparison. Perhaps it's because they're so used to huddling together to escape the wind that there's some kind of camaraderie. <new post from off-topic so it actually shows>

[Meezo]

Road bikes unfortunately don't sell as well as Mountain bikes do.

... however what you saying is not wrong. Only ethically .

 

Apparently

[ACE Cycles]

Hi Nico, from my experience the bikehub rating has been very effective to identify sellers with poor business ethics. 

Where I lost all sympathy is where you refer to resellers as leaches...

[Jewbacca]

I always see 'good deal' associated with bad experiences and scammers.

People see things being sold under 'market value' and lose their minds.

I'm sorry you have had the misfortune of dealing with less than ideal ethical sellers, but that's a 'people' problem, not a bikehub problem.

Being angry and railing against things isn't good for you. Let it go.

Fork out slightly more cash on a slightly less bargain and you will probably find your experiences improve. The fight at the bargain end of the ladder is brutal

[IceCreamMan]

Flip side of course is buyers agreeing then not pitching up or declining after agreeing. Then the seller is left out of a sale. 
 

Bird in the hand kinda thing. Not sure there is a solution cept maybe instant transfer. 

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

31 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

Hi Nico, from my experience the bikehub rating has been very effective to identify sellers with poor business ethics. 

Where I lost all sympathy is where you refer to resellers as leaches...

My opinion, yours may differ. Its not against the law, its just anti social. 

19 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

I always see 'good deal' associated with bad experiences and scammers.

People see things being sold under 'market value' and lose their minds.

I'm sorry you have had the misfortune of dealing with less than ideal ethical sellers, but that's a 'people' problem, not a bikehub problem.

Being angry and railing against things isn't good for you. Let it go.

Fork out slightly more cash on a slightly less bargain and you will probably find your experiences improve. The fight at the bargain end of the ladder is brutal

I'd love to see these reasonably priced mountain bikes. I've been looking for around 6 months and there seem to be 3 categories:

- clearly stolen bikes 

- resellers who think an 8 year old aluminium mountain bike is worth R34k

- the odd decently priced bargain, that is impossible to buy 

6 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

Flip side of course is buyers agreeing then not pitching up or declining after agreeing. Then the seller is left out of a sale. 
 

Bird in the hand kinda thing. Not sure there is a solution cept maybe instant transfer. 

The solution that works is the one I listed. A rigidly defined set of rules for interacting, that are enforced by the hub. Works on every other forum I'm active on. 

[IceCreamMan]

29 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

My opinion, yours may differ. Its not against the law, its just anti social. 

I'd love to see these reasonably priced mountain bikes. I've been looking for around 6 months and there seem to be 3 categories:

- clearly stolen bikes 

- resellers who think an 8 year old aluminium mountain bike is worth R34k

- the odd decently priced bargain, that is impossible to buy 

The solution that works is the one I listed. A rigidly defined set of rules for interacting, that are enforced by the hub. Works on every other forum I'm active on. 

That will not work. Can’t expect administration by the hub. 

[ACE Cycles]

It's a difficult time for buyers that like a longer buying process. The guys that go through the motions, asking all the right questions, then viewing and then thinking about it properly before making a decision. 

For everyone one of those there are 3 guys keen to jump in their car now, pay full asking and ride off with their purchase right there 'n then. I often get buyers asking for the bike to get couriered to them within minutes of posting and ad. Unfortunately this means that the more cautious or uncertain buyers often miss out on a good deal

[Nick]

Bike Hub does assist with attempts to resolve a dispute, if you choose to use Bike Hub Pay: https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/bike-hub-pay

Of course, we do address anything illegal regardless but if you want to enforce manners, Pay has shown to do that successfully.

[MudLark]

Dunno. Bought and sold a few things through the Hub. Never had a problem yet.

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

24 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

That will not work. Can’t expect administration by the hub. 

Weird then that it happens seamlessly on all the other platforms I use!

22 minutes ago, ACE Cycles said:

It's a difficult time for buyers that like a longer buying process. The guys that go through the motions, asking all the right questions, then viewing and then thinking about it properly before making a decision. 

For everyone one of those there are 3 guys keen to jump in their car now, pay full asking and ride off with their purchase right there 'n then. I often get buyers asking for the bike to get couriered to them within minutes of posting and ad. Unfortunately this means that the more cautious or uncertain buyers often miss out on a good deal

Yep. 

21 minutes ago, Nick said:

Bike Hub does assist with attempts to resolve a dispute, if you choose to use Bike Hub Pay: https://bikehub.co.za/classifieds/bike-hub-pay

Of course, we do address anything illegal regardless but if you want to enforce manners, Pay has shown to do that successfully.

Unfortunately, that requires the seller to enable and want to use Pay, which when I've suggested it before, has been rebuffed. 

2 minutes ago, MudLark said:

Dunno. Bought and sold a few things through the Hub. Never had a problem yet.

Good for you!

[Sid the Sloth]

3 hours ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Buying on Bikehub has become an exercise in futility. Say, somehow, magically, you find yourself first in line for a good deal, before the leaches (sorry - resellers, apparently some smooth brain hubbers consider this business savvy). You're excited! A new bike to actually ride (not just take rubbish photos of, describe incorrectly and put a R15k markup on). Don't count those chickens - the likelihood that the seller actually sticks to their word and keeps it for you is lower than 20%, if my experience is representative. 

I am tired and angry of making a deal, confirming it verbally on the phone, arranging to pick up a bike at the most convenient time for the seller, and then having the seller message me and say it's been sold while I'm on my way. This is a serious lack of  honesty or sticking to your word.

This isn't even a hard system to correct. I've been active on forums for something like 20 years now, and without a doubt Bikehub is the worst of the bunch. Two simple tweaks would fix this: charge resellers a more significant sum to operate, levelling the playing field a bit, and use that money to run the site and ensure there is someone to moderate disputes. Two or three strikes and you're out. How is it possible that there are so many sellers with serious allegations against them and 1 star reviews running free? 

Yeah, Matt and the other admins are good with outright scams. Good luck getting a response on anything else - emails, direct messages, and the help chat have all so far yielded nothing more than radio silence. 

I'll throw an aside out here for the trolls that are sure to congregate: this has exclusively happened with mountain bikes. For some reason, the roadies seem like decent bunch in comparison. Perhaps it's because they're so used to huddling together to escape the wind that there's some kind of camaraderie. <new post from off-topic so it actually shows>

I have bought an impressive amount of cycling goods and I haven't had any similar experiences. Maybe I don't get my hopes up as much so my memories aren't as good, but I am sorry you feel this way. I have met some awesome people through here. Hopefully you come right soon... PS I have only bought road and gravel stuff really! Haha

[Sid the Sloth]

1 hour ago, ACE Cycles said:

Hi Nico, from my experience the bikehub rating has been very effective to identify sellers with poor business ethics. 

Where I lost all sympathy is where you refer to resellers as leaches...

Agreed. Many guys are passionate cyclists and have successful businesses or make a bit of money based off buying and selling second hand stuff where they see opportunity... It is really wishful thinking that this wouldn't happen, it is a tragedy of the commons unfortunately. Consider paying for Bikehub Plus if you want instant alerts when the things you want are posted, and also supporting the site. 

[Nico van Loggerenberg]

8 minutes ago, Sid the Sloth said:

I have bought an impressive amount of cycling goods and I haven't had any similar experiences. Maybe I don't get my hopes up as much so my memories aren't as good, but I am sorry you feel this way. I have met some awesome people through here. Hopefully you come right soon... PS I have only bought road and gravel stuff really! Haha

Have had zero issues buying loose items or road bikes. As I mentioned, this is prevalent with mbts - specifically full suspension mountain bikes. It's a very specific problem, related probably to the rise in popularity of the sport and the great ease with which you can make a quick buck by reselling them.

3 minutes ago, Sid the Sloth said:

Agreed. Many guys are passionate cyclists and have successful businesses or make a bit of money based off buying and selling second hand stuff where they see opportunity... It is really wishful thinking that this wouldn't happen, it is a tragedy of the commons unfortunately. Consider paying for Bikehub Plus if you want instant alerts when the things you want are posted, and also supporting the site. 

Just as many are not. Around half of the mountain bikes for sale by resellers are by people who are clearly not cyclists, and know next to nothing about the bikes themselves - advertising them incorrectly, hell, often not even bothering to wash them. Friends of mine have bought bikes that had unrepairable damage on them from 'well-regarded' resellers on here, because they are beginners and don't know better. There is a seller on gumtree (I'm well aware that's outside the scope of this discussion) that has sold 137 000 items in total, of which around half seem to be mountain bikes. If you think that has zero effect on the price of the sport, you need your helmet checked for damage. 

[Sid the Sloth]

10 minutes ago, Nico van Loggerenberg said:

Have had zero issues buying loose items or road bikes. As I mentioned, this is prevalent with mbts - specifically full suspension mountain bikes. It's a very specific problem, related probably to the rise in popularity of the sport and the great ease with which you can make a quick buck by reselling them.

Just as many are not. Around half of the mountain bikes for sale by resellers are by people who are clearly not cyclists, and know next to nothing about the bikes themselves - advertising them incorrectly, hell, often not even bothering to wash them. Friends of mine have bought bikes that had unrepairable damage on them from 'well-regarded' resellers on here, because they are beginners and don't know better. There is a seller on gumtree (I'm well aware that's outside the scope of this discussion) that has sold 137 000 items in total, of which around half seem to be mountain bikes. If you think that has zero effect on the price of the sport, you need your helmet checked for damage. 

Wow... I hope reviews are being left on these guys. Did not realize this was such an issue! 

[Hairy]

I have bought and sold a good bit of bike goods (Roadie and MTB) on here ... the only issue I have had is with "regular" users who I have cultivated a relationship who deliberately price their things to me at stupid pricing that I can not refuse and this in turn get's me into a little bit of trouble with the Mrs ............... so chops like @Chewbaccaand @Iwan Kempshould please stop making trouble for me please.