Help a Roadie understand MTB things

[Jewbacca]

2 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Being anti dropper post is very mainstream SA, investing in skills, i.e paying for coaching is not. Dropper posts are a legit way to buy skills and make things easier, just like 29er wheels and light weight carbon bikes. 

I have a dropper, 29er wheels and a carbon bike. I also never paid for coaching other than in blood and broken bones.... GUILTY!!!

 

[Eddy Gordo]

Yes, there is some compromise to be reached. Fast and comfy downhill, or easy climbing? 

You can go fast on any bike. Its up to the rider, and the tyres make a huge difference regarding rolling resistance.

[Headshot]

Just now, Jewbacca said:

I have a dropper, 29er wheels and a carbon bike. I also never paid for coaching other than in blood and broken bones.... GUILTY!!!

 

MVDP has had lots of coaching and look what happened to him.. ????

[6AL4V]

 

[Headshot]

6 minutes ago, RobertWhitehead said:

Ok, so here's my opinion (again, those of you who've seen me around knows that I always start a statement like this). This is my view and it may not be the same as what the next guy had in mind but then, that is his / her view and not mine ????.

 

Anything more than 100 - 120mm travel for you will not hold too much benefits. In fact I would go so far as to say that it would actually be a negative / annoyance for you.

I mean because you come from a road riding back ground your riding style will undoubtedly be that of a high-ish cadence and getting into a rhythm quickly, more travel won't eliminate that, all I am trying to say is that with a 130-170mm travel you will constantly fight to overcome the "slog" you'll be feeling.

See, more travel means a slacker head angle which in turn means a (marginally) longer wheel base. This in turn means that the front wheel is pushed forward and this will make the climbs noticeably slower. It will feel like someone opened a parachute every time you start going up.  In my circles we refer to it as a "slap noodle" - very comfy to sit on for hours but you're going to need the comfort because you will be slower.

Re your last paragraph  - it all depends. Some 120-140mm trail bikes are not super slack at all. It depends on the manufacturer. The 120mm bikes discussed here are far from slack. That said, for Vrystaat gravel, you probably wont even need 120mm. 

[Frosty]

4 hours ago, Jase619 said:

So, my wife and I have decided to give this MTB thing a try. Been in the works for a long time, but varying annoyances like getting married, buying a house and having a child has tied up cashflow until now.

So as not to bring up fanboyisms, I shall not be revealing the brands we are looking at, but am merely trying to cut through the cowpat and get some advice.

We are looking to ride on weekends around our local trails, which in the Free State means flat and dusty, but we would also like to be able to take our bikes with us on holidays and ride trails there, whether it be in the Western Cape or KZN. Also looking at doing some stage races just for the experience, and obviously to test ourselves, like Sani2C, Wines2Whales and the like.

To that point, what is the real marked difference between a trail bike and a XC bike?

Would I regret buying one over the other? Most locals I have asked have referred to the trail bikes being slightly heavier and having more travel. But does more travel really equal Bad?

 Got told by a local bike shop this weekend that the trail bike we were looking at was "Too Much" bike for us and our local area. . .

I haven't read all the comments, but the biggest difference is that a trail bike will be a little more comfortable compared to the XC bike.
You sit a little more upright, compared to the slightly forward position on the XC. 
It's like trying to compare an endurance frame with an aero frame - not much difference for a fun-rider but they make a difference to a Pro.

As a fun-rider, comfort would most likely be the sensible choice.

Some noticeable differences:

• Head tube angles - steeper on XC (helps with sharp turns), but is forgiving on flexibility on the trail bike;
• Bar width - wider on Trail (opens the lungs = comfort);
• Wheelbase - longer on Trail (more stability on descents);
• Suspension - longer on Trail;
• Weight - XC frames are lighter.

At the end of the day, any bike should will be enjoyable.

 

[DieselnDust]

11 minutes ago, Headshot said:

MVDP has had lots of coaching and look what happened to him.. ????

But he wasn't coached about the missing pallet so there's that.

[Spafsack]

I have first hand experience to how different a trail bike compares to a xc bike. I also think we need to know the OP's age, height, predicted distance per week, might help.

My wife [45] then, rode a Silverback Stratos al3. This was her first move / change, coming from a Giant hardtail 27.5. Yes, the slacker silverback was more comfy, but the riding we do did not justify the slackness and weight. We do the types of roads the OP is talking about. Most MTB Races are just fine for xc.

I sold her bike as she was really complaining on long uphills, and we all no that there are tons of climbing on our local mtb races. She takes it easy downhills, we dont want to wipe out now at this age. The bike weight bothered her, even though she is 1.6m, 53kg and fit. So getting back, sold her bike, bought a second hand Scott contessa rc 900 wc. It is in a completely different league, its a medium but the size looks smaller, it weighs around 10.5kg.

She is so much happier on this, does not have paid, does not need more slakness, is fine in any condition, road type. The suspension is way better even though its a 2 year old bike. Uphills she rides away from me now, compared to her close to 14kg silverback. Looking at the Geo, the scott is not that much more 'straight up' versus the stratos, but i guess you cant compare a bike which when new was almost 100k with a new stratos for 35k. She does not have a dropper as she takes it really easy on downhills, tech stuff. For us its the climbing, thats the work out. Different strokes for different okes i guess. These are my thoughts and for what we do, what type of riding she does, it works 100%.

[TNT1]

41 minutes ago, Headshot said:

Being anti dropper post is very mainstream SA, investing in skills, i.e paying for coaching is not. Dropper posts are a legit way to buy skills and make things easier, just like 29er wheels and light weight carbon bikes. 

I pay a coach.

[_David_]

I sort-of agree with your local bike shop. I live in Gauteng and i ride a XC carbon hardtail with 100mm travel. No local trails here in Gauteng that you cant ride with it. Done Sani2c, Berg and Bush etc with the hardtail no problem.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by _David_

[TNT1]

5 hours ago, Jewbacca said:

Don't mistake 'Trail' for 'Enduro'... 

My advice would be to buy a 120mm/120mm trail bike, like a Titan Cypher or Spez Epic Evo (the new one) or something like that.

The angles are perfect for everything. A 100mm XC bike CAN ride everything, but a 120mm 'Trail' bike will be way more stable, way more versatile and to be fair, the speed bottleneck at races won't be the bike or it's weight, it will be you.

Get a 'trail' bike. Seriously. Bumbling around on an XC race bike is not as cool as people make it out to be

I'm outgrown my trail bike. I get me a XC bike next.

 

But I'm not a bumbler.

[Mountain Bru]

44 minutes ago, MORNE said:

Nee man, just put some offroad tires on your road bike. DH weapon. All this cape epic talk is nonsense. 

 

 

This dude is sommer rocking a disk wheel at the back. Who needs travel when you're an aero beast  ????

[MORNE]

7 minutes ago, Mountain Bru said:

This dude is sommer rocking a disk wheel at the back. Who needs travel when you're an aero beast  ????

even though now banned in modern dh, GMBN did a test in one episode...full ski suit with makeshift cardboard disk wheels and it was so much faster lol.

this guy was a visionary. 

[Spafsack]

1 minute ago, MORNE said:

even though now banned in modern dh, GMBN did a test in one episode...full ski suit with makeshift cardboard disk wheels and it was so much faster lol.

this guy was a visionary. 

Did you see the gent in the yellow evil knievel helmet lol 

[Trashy]

1 hour ago, TNT1 said:

Nah, it's just that every one of these kind of threads is looking for a "one bike to do everything" kind of bike, which simply doesn't exist.

It does exist. If you can define the range "everything" and are willing to live with compromises within that range.

I used to do downhill at Cascades on a hardtail with 5" travel up front and I remember early in the 2000's, for kicks and giggles, a local Pro entered a marathon event on his mom's old trash bike and made the podium.

Speed is determined by rider skill and fitness, but the right tool for the job allows us mere mortals to discover our best with greater comfort and safety.

Regarding OP's original question, have you demo'ed any bikes yet? I thought I was a fan of short travel racing machines until I rode a good trail bike. I'm in no hurry and I don't ride in groups so I don't need to keep up with anyone.

Also, depending on your budget, you might be happier getting a used hardtail for boring, training type rides, and a trail bike for when you want to have have some fun.

[StevieG]

1 hour ago, MORNE said:

Nee man, just put some offroad tires on your road bike. DH weapon. All this cape epic talk is nonsense. 

 

 

Ricoffy Hardline 1993 ????