Cycling coach

[DieselnDust]

2 minutes ago, Job said:

You are a perfect candidate for a coach so that you can start winning better paying races like Argus or 947...I am always coming 150ish out of 200 riders in DL, therefore there is no coach in this world would do any miracle to get me in the top 10 of the vets, so to those like myself there is no point in wasting money on coaches unless you doing it for economic empowerment of our fellow coaches and boosting their business not to die and be in a position to assist those who really need coaching.

I don; think you can write off coaches in your scenario.

Why do you think a coach can't help you to top 10% of DL? or get you to A?

[Danger Dassie]

1 hour ago, Job said:

I would only consider a coach if I was a 16 y/o with an aim of turning Pro or if I feel I have a potential to win the Vet races because at least there is some compensation there. As an ordinary man who has a 7am-10pm job I see no need for anyone on the same boat as myself to get a coach...get Zwift or Trainerroad adaptation plans are very good and much better now and less taxing on the body than previously. For now anyone with a target of a 3-4w/kg can achieve that with Zwift, TR and group rides. 

This touches on a problematic trend in school sports.
Teenagers generally don't need coaches at all in that scenario, performance wise. They just need to be teenagers and figure life out, albeit with some guidance, which is the role a coach can perform at that level. Kids on power meters, nutrition programmes and what not, perfect recipe for burnout. It's almost abusive what some parents and schools choose to do in order to push the kids to perform. 

[bleedToWin]

To answer the original OP question (not the long term coaching vs online programmes debate):

CTCT is 13 weeks away. If you asked me to coach you or help you to self coach I'll tell you that your target event is too close to do anything properly useful. A good coach would tell you the same thing. Riding more will get you 90% of the possible gains that can be achieved in only three training blocks and any online or cookie cutter programme will give you that 90%. A coach (or well researched self coaching) can give you the extra 10%, but really where these things come into their own is planning a whole year that consists of base, build, and specificity training blocks and adapting the plan on the fly. It sounds complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

To repeat CTCT advice I gave a friend recently.

Block one
Up your current hours by 15% each week for three weeks.
All rides are endurance, except 1 ride where you do threshold or sweet spot efforts. (2 x 15min, 3 x 12min, 4 x 10min. You choose)
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep your intensity session.

Block two
Three weeks at the hours you achieved in third week of block one.
Two intensity sessions per week. Same session as block one, plus a mid-week VO2max session. (4 x 8min, 5 x 5min, 6 x 3min. You choose)
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep one of the intensity sessions. Your choice.

Block three
Three weeks starting at the hours of previous block and bumping 10% each week.
Two intensity sessions per week. Focus on the types of efforts that most concern you for CTCT and do as many repeats as can be done with quality.
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep one of the intensity sessions.

[Job]

31 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I don; think you can write off coaches in your scenario.

Why do you think a coach can't help you to top 10% of DL? or get you to A?

Indeed the coach could help but trainerroad or Zwift could do that a a fraction of a cost hence I am for those who say a newbie doesn't need a coach it is for high end athletes in my opinion.

8 minutes ago, Danger Dassie said:

This touches on a problematic trend in school sports.
Teenagers generally don't need coaches at all in that scenario, performance wise. They just need to be teenagers and figure life out, albeit with some guidance, which is the role a coach can perform at that level. Kids on power meters, nutrition programmes and what not, perfect recipe for burnout. It's almost abusive what some parents and schools choose to do in order to push the kids to perform. 

Children should be children from birth until 15..from 16 as a parent I think if you see potential in your kid it is the right time to consider coaching and specialization.

[Meezo]

58 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

I recently came 3rd in a vets race. Prize money was less than the entry fee... 😫

What's more important and way more valuable than any entry fee, is you can tell us about it right here on bikehub

[J Wakefield]

9 minutes ago, bleedToWin said:

To answer the original OP question (not the long term coaching vs online programmes debate):

CTCT is 13 weeks away. If you asked me to coach you or help you to self coach I'll tell you that your target event is too close to do anything properly useful. A good coach would tell you the same thing. Riding more will get you 90% of the possible gains that can be achieved in only three training blocks and any online or cookie cutter programme will give you that 90%. A coach (or well researched self coaching) can give you the extra 10%, but really where these things come into their own is planning a whole year that consists of base, build, and specificity training blocks and adapting the plan on the fly. It sounds complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

To repeat CTCT advice I gave a friend recently.

Block one
Up your current hours by 15% each week for three weeks.
All rides are endurance, except 1 ride where you do threshold or sweet spot efforts. (2 x 15min, 3 x 12min, 4 x 10min. You choose)
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep your intensity session.

Block two
Three weeks at the hours you achieved in third week of block one.
Two intensity sessions per week. Same session as block one, plus a mid-week VO2max session. (4 x 8min, 5 x 5min, 6 x 3min. You choose)
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep one of the intensity sessions. Your choice.

Block three
Three weeks starting at the hours of previous block and bumping 10% each week.
Two intensity sessions per week. Focus on the types of efforts that most concern you for CTCT and do as many repeats as can be done with quality.
Take a recovery week where you cut the hours way back, but keep one of the intensity sessions.

Intensity increases, volume decreases.  

riding more doesn’t always give you gains 

if a coach or anyone tells you they will give you a 10% improvement is not telling  the truth, sure an improvement is achievable but a value is a sales pitch. Finding 2 % in a year or 6% over 2 years is sometimes all that is achievable or if there is no % improvement then you want consistency which is a big improvement. 
 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by J Wakefield

[bleedToWin]

2 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

Intensity increases, volume decreases.  

Almost always true, unless you are not starting your three training blocks with enough volume in the legs then increasing volume is 'specific' to your CTCT goal. If the intensity is too much it should be dropped to make sure you do enough volume in the limited time you have.

 

[J Wakefield]

1 minute ago, bleedToWin said:

Almost always true, unless you are not starting your three training blocks with enough volume in the legs then increasing volume is 'specific' to your CTCT goal. If the intensity is too much it should be dropped to make sure you do enough volume in the limited time you have.

 

If you doing it this way, your training prescription is wrong and planned incorrectly from the offset. 

[Help.Me.]

I am just curious to know , what is a fair price for a coach? Don't want to derail the thread but it might help the OP with his decision? I went the coach route , it did help me a lot , I also did TR base plans and I was very surprised by results. You need to be someone special to sit on the IDT every morning........... 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Help.Me.
spelling

[_David_]

9 minutes ago, Job said:

Indeed the coach could help but trainerroad or Zwift could do that a a fraction of a cost hence I am for those who say a newbie doesn't need a coach it is for high end athletes in my opinion.

Children should be children from birth until 15..from 16 as a parent I think if you see potential in your kid it is the right time to consider coaching and specialization.

 

I honestly think that the machine learning introduced to TR a couple months ago is a game changer and it is going to upset the online-coaching applecart.

[madmarc]

Lets not forget Anna Kiesenhofer won gold in Tokyo Olympics - No coach and used intervals.icu as her analytics 

[bleedToWin]

3 minutes ago, J Wakefield said:

If you doing it this way, your training prescription is wrong and planned incorrectly from the offset. 

Would you advise someone coming off of consistent 5 hour weeks leading into three blocks before CTCT to purely increase volume with no intensity, or to decrease their current 5 hours of volume in order to accommodate some intensity?

My advice ramped them up to a peak 9 hour week while adding intensity.

[Eldron]

3 minutes ago, madmarc said:

Lets not forget Anna Kiesenhofer won gold in Tokyo Olympics - No coach and used intervals.icu as her analytics 

As always - the exception does not mean the rule is wrong.

The vast majority of pros use coaches.

 

[_David_]

16 minutes ago, Help.Me. said:

I am just curious to know , what is a fair price for a coach? Don't want to derail the thread but it might help the OP with his decision? I went the coach route , it did help me a lot , I also did TR base plans and I was very surprised by results. You need to be someone special to **** on the IDT every morning........... 

Can't remember the exact amount but two years ago I was paying about a R1200 a month for a multisport coach. I have since moved to TR for a fraction of the cost.

Edited December 13, 2021 by _David_

[J Wakefield]

1 minute ago, bleedToWin said:

Would you advise someone coming off of consistent 5 hour weeks leading into three blocks before CTCT to purely increase volume with no intensity, or to decrease their current 5 hours of volume in order to accommodate some intensity?

My advice ramped them up to a peak 9 hour week while adding intensity.

It would depend what their availability is and build accordingly making sure load is required for what we want to achieve. but no, I would not give someone increased hours and intensity at the same time. I would plan and periodise accordingly.

People finish epic on 8-10hrs a week, build the intensity in correctly to create the required stress and you prescribing correctly. 

[Frosty]

Some coaches don’t only offer training plans. Bike handling skills, bike fit, nutrition, sleep, rest, long term planning, motivation, analysis of your data, problem solving and much more more.

But again, it depends on the expectations and ambitions/goals of the person wanting a coach.