Consumer rights & recourse with large global corporates?

[ChrisF]

47 minutes ago, Dust46! said:

I was very surprised at the bad rating Garmin South Africa has on Hello Peter, I have only had positive dealings with Garmin SA in the past but it is quite alarming.

 

In fairness ....

 

My Garmin FR35 gave issues.  I printed out the data, to be able to shown what was wrong and when it was noted.  Showed it to the staff at SportsmansWarehouse.  3 weeks later I had a brand new unit, in a sealed box.  LOTS of similar posts on the Hub over the years.

 

NONE of us are running to Helopeter to post about how good Garmin treated us.

 

 

 

As for "not repairable" ..... pay in on a new unit .... this is WELL published, and known factor when buying Garmin.  And if the error is not immediately apparent it can quickly turn into a drawn out mess ....  my friends doing triathlon actually keep old Garmin units to use as a stand in during these periods.

 

YES - it sucks that a device in this price range does not come with a life time waranty .... but then again, we SADLY live in a disposable electronic era.

 

 

Moral of the story .... make sure your device is insured ..... o-crap, must check the waranty on the VivoActive 4 .... 12 or 24 months ?

 

EDIT - only 12 month warranty ... sent my broker an email ...

 

 

 

As for taking on a large firm that have already made an industry typical offer .... been there, done that, learnt that lesson !!!!  This is the type of fight that makes you old before your time, and only benefits lawyers .... rather mover on

Edited February 7, 2022 by ChrisF

[MORNE]

2 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

snip

YES - it sucks that a device in this price range does not come with a life time waranty .... but then again, we SADLY live in a disposable electronic era.

 

 

yes, but....

i'm typing this from an apple computer that is 12 years old and still hangs with the other big boys in my arsenal lol. 

#justsaying

[AdamA]

56 minutes ago, rudi-h said:

you guys either have a lot of spare cash lying around, or you just simply don't expect much from suppliers.

there is a major difference between a garmin and any other product out there, which is that a garmin watch is allegedly completely irreparable.  This means 2 things.  Firstly that my "broken" watch has zero value.  secondly, there are no repair options offered.  The ONLY option for me to get a working watch is therefore to take the R4k deal from garmin and failing to pay that, have no watch at all after spending R12k 2 years ago for a top end sportswatch.  This doesn't sound very competitive to me?  I also never asked for a new watch and would have been willing to pay towards a battery replacement given that this would/should give me 2 more years worth of life on the watch.  The issue is that there is no option B.

the final point is that the cause of failure is not use related.  I.e. there's nothing that I could or should have done different to preserve or extend the watch's life.  The defect has its roots in poor product quality / factory defect. 

 

 

I have a Casio Edifice (divers) watch.
To replace the battery at Cajees is R200.
To have it Pressure tested is another R600. 

I don't dive with the watch so don't really need to have it Pressure tested, so I buy a R25 battery from Clicks and do it myself. 

I think the reason Garmin won't replace the battery is that locally, they don't have the Dust-free/sterile environment where the watches are originally made, so they cannot guarantee it will meet the OEM standards. 

If Garmin don't sort you out, you could take the watch to the Cell-Fix guys and I'm sure they would be able to make a plan it this ....

https://pclinkshop.com/products/hqrp-battery-works-with-pd3555-garmin-fenix-1-fenix-2-tactix-gps-watch-361-00061-00-3-7v-500mah-coaster

 

I am sorry for you loss, and understand your frustration.

Many years ago I bought a A200 Merc and extended the warrantee to 7years/100000km.
At 105,000km the Automatic Gearbox went, cost me R35K and took 7 weeks to repair
A month later the right driveshaft snapped. R8000.
A month later the left drive shaft snapped R7500.
I sold the car 2 weeks later for R65000.(netting only R15,000 after the repairs) 

 

To me your options are 

a. Fight with Garmin for the next 3 months and 'maybe' get some joy

b. take your watch to Cell-Fix guys and see if they can make a plan - but your watch won't be waterproof

c. spend the R4000 for the Repair ( but make sure you get a "New" watch) and then sell it "New still in box" and buy another brand 

d. spend the R4000 for the Repair ( but make sure you get a "New" watch) and then enjoy the watch like you did 2+ years ago. 

 

 

[ChrisF]

6 minutes ago, MORNE said:

yes, but....

i'm typing this from an apple computer that is 12 years old and still hangs with the other big boys in my arsenal lol. 

#justsaying

 

Morne YES I come from an era before all this disposable electronic stuff ....

 

The mere thought that a watch can have a "life cycle costs" of a few thousand rand a year is plain stupid to an ou-toppie like me !!

 

Thus I will be adding it to my insurance ..... because I dont think it will last 12 years .... 

[AdamA]

On 2/4/2022 at 4:04 PM, BikeisLife said:

Had the exact same issue. The "repair" is actually a new unit, R4k isn't bad considering the instinct was R2k. 

Make sure you are charging your device in a 1.2A low voltage output (your laptop works well here), this is what killed my battery and I'm sure it is probably the case with yours too. Sucks that they do not make this clear on the box etc. or supply a proper charging base with it.

Thanks for this information.... Confirms what I have thought for a while. Lately I pay more attention to the 1.2V vs 2.1A vs 2.4A Charges

[BigDL]

2 hours ago, rudi-h said:

you guys either have a lot of spare cash lying around, or you just simply don't expect much from suppliers.

there is a major difference between a garmin and any other product out there, which is that a garmin watch is allegedly completely irreparable.  This means 2 things.  Firstly that my "broken" watch has zero value.  secondly, there are no repair options offered.  The ONLY option for me to get a working watch is therefore to take the R4k deal from garmin and failing to pay that, have no watch at all after spending R12k 2 years ago for a top end sportswatch.  This doesn't sound very competitive to me?  I also never asked for a new watch and would have been willing to pay towards a battery replacement given that this would/should give me 2 more years worth of life on the watch.  The issue is that there is no option B.

the final point is that the cause of failure is not use related.  I.e. there's nothing that I could or should have done different to preserve or extend the watch's life.  The defect has its roots in poor product quality / factory defect. 

 

So, are they offering you a replacement at 4k instead of 12k? If so, then the broken watch doesn’t have zero value, they are valuing it at 8k, which is 66% of its original price, which is not bad for a 2 year old electronic watch

[BigDL]

As an aside, in Europe you would have access to proper protection of consumer rights up to 6 years from purchase, presuming that the fault can be shown as being an inherent part of the Watch ie the Watch was faulty when you bought it and it is unreasonable for it not to be working however long down the line. 

[Andreas_187]

Garmin SA are so much more expensive than most places in the world, I refuse to buy at their inflated prices

Edited February 11, 2022 by Andreas_187

[MORNE]

As with all things consumer related, vote with your wallet. Garmin is like Spez in this country in many ways imo. People are loyal to it without even knowing why i think. Reading all the complaints over the spread of their products on here probably supports the notion that more people have them, so more people complain about them. Just like everybody likes to say toyota and vw's are the most stolen cars....well duh!

But I guess i'll still feel apprehensive about buying one of their gadgets if it looks like you have a 50/50 chance of getting a unit that will only last 24months that you paid 12k for...not to mention the extra 4k for replacement. The price of ownership outstrips the usefulness then imo. Thats near to R1000 a month. Not worth it.  It doesn't do anything more than a HRM and a phone can't do...both of which you most probably already carry on you anyway since wrist based HRM's are crap and if you are serious about it then you'll be wearing a strap anyway.  

There are also other brands like Suunto, Polar, Coros etc etc. Maybe it's worth exploring their local warranties. 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by MORNE

[rudi-h]

40 minutes ago, BigDL said:

So, are they offering you a replacement at 4k instead of 12k? If so, then the broken watch doesn’t have zero value, they are valuing it at 8k, which is 66% of its original price, which is not bad for a 2 year old electronic watch

It is only worth R8k if I give them another R4k. It has zero value otherwise ok any market.

If this were a R120k Breitling, would you accept that it just broke down and the only way to fix it is to pay the same shop another R40k with no option to only replace only the bit that failed?  Now the conversation is suddenly different? You guys are welcome to suck up to the said supplier and accept unfavourable proposals, but I certainly think that holding you hostage with an unfavourable repair/replace option, (I e. Pay us R4k or lose it all) is not right.  At least give me an option just to pay for a repair, or tell me what I could/should have done differently to get reasonable life from their product.

Answer this:

1) Should it last more than 2 years

2) was there anything that I could to to prevent it from failing

If yes to 1 and no to 2, why is this my problem and financial liability. That's at least how I see it.

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

[Vetplant]

1 minute ago, rudi-h said:

 

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

Yeah, to be honest, I can't see you getting anywhere going this route. 

Please do keep us posted if you do decide to go ahead, as I would be very keen to hear how it all unfolds. 

I haven't dealt too much with lawyers, but be aware of the fees that any lawyer will charge you to fight this. I don't know if there is a way you can negotiate the fees on a no-win no-fees basis, but even then, I think their fees will outrun the value of the watch a couple of times over. 

The suggestion above from AdamA to have it Replaced for R4000 and then selling it on Marketplace is the best outcome for your pocket. Then for your own wellbeing, move along to another brand that you deem have a better Warranty policy and/or longevity.

Sometimes it is better to summon your inner Idina Menzel and "Let it go!"

[BigDL]

49 minutes ago, rudi-h said:

It is only worth R8k if I give them another R4k. It has zero value otherwise ok any market.

If this were a R120k Breitling, would you accept that it just broke down and the only way to fix it is to pay the same shop another R40k with no option to only replace only the bit that failed?  Now the conversation is suddenly different? You guys are welcome to suck up to the said supplier and accept unfavourable proposals, but I certainly think that holding you hostage with an unfavourable repair/replace option, (I e. Pay us R4k or lose it all) is not right.  At least give me an option just to pay for a repair, or tell me what I could/should have done differently to get reasonable life from their product.

Answer this:

1) Should it last more than 2 years

2) was there anything that I could to to prevent it from failing

If yes to 1 and no to 2, why is this my problem and financial liability. That's at least how I see it.

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

I don't disagree with you and refer you to my comment how in Europe you would (quite rightly) have more options. 

Yes, an electronic device should last more than two years, but, in SA, it is not guaranteed to do so. If it were a phone, you would expect to upgrade fairly regularly (every two to three years for most people) and the trade-in value of the old phone would have an impact on the purchase price. 

Essentially, Garmin are offering you a deal to keep you as a customer. Your watch has decreased in value by 16% a year, based on their offer. Presumably they wouldn't have made the offer if your watch was still working, so they are coming to the party and it seems like a fair offer in the circumstances.

 

 

[jcza]

1 hour ago, rudi-h said:

It is only worth R8k if I give them another R4k. It has zero value otherwise ok any market.

If this were a R120k Breitling, would you accept that it just broke down and the only way to fix it is to pay the same shop another R40k with no option to only replace only the bit that failed?  Now the conversation is suddenly different? You guys are welcome to suck up to the said supplier and accept unfavourable proposals, but I certainly think that holding you hostage with an unfavourable repair/replace option, (I e. Pay us R4k or lose it all) is not right.  At least give me an option just to pay for a repair, or tell me what I could/should have done differently to get reasonable life from their product.

Answer this:

1) Should it last more than 2 years

2) was there anything that I could to to prevent it from failing

If yes to 1 and no to 2, why is this my problem and financial liability. That's at least how I see it.

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

You can spend R4k and get a new watch or R400k on a lawyer and not get a new watch. 

You will drive yourself crazy with this. Go back to Garmin, explain situation (again) and hope they are reasonable. 

[BaGearA]

11 hours ago, rudi-h said:

It is only worth R8k if I give them another R4k. It has zero value otherwise ok any market.

If this were a R120k Breitling, would you accept that it just broke down and the only way to fix it is to pay the same shop another R40k with no option to only replace only the bit that failed?  Now the conversation is suddenly different? You guys are welcome to suck up to the said supplier and accept unfavourable proposals, but I certainly think that holding you hostage with an unfavourable repair/replace option, (I e. Pay us R4k or lose it all) is not right.  At least give me an option just to pay for a repair, or tell me what I could/should have done differently to get reasonable life from their product.

Answer this:

1) Should it last more than 2 years

2) was there anything that I could to to prevent it from failing

If yes to 1 and no to 2, why is this my problem and financial liability. That's at least how I see it.

The point of this wasn't to argue with you guys, I asked how to take on a large companies that bullies its customers into submission.

I 100% understand you frustration 

 

I went through something similar with Vodacom in Nov and didn't get anywhere , and I was bloody entitled to. my EXACT situation was described in their terms and conditions 

 

But eventually i just walked away , you are not going to get any reasonable service 

 

ask yourself 'where does a 900lbs gorilla sit ? " "right where it F|_|cking wants to" 

[Shebeen]

I didn't realise you can buy a Garmin for R12k. 

They are taking the piss, that is Apple territory

[Danger Dassie]

Clearly a breakdown on expectations.
Depends on how far you want to take the issue and what overall impact you expect to make on a broader consumer level. If you take them on legally, then it will set a precedent going forward. Win or lose.
Consumer legal consultation may advise.

Alternatively lodge with the CPA, although there is the backlog to take into consideration.