Redux.. Am I being unreasonable here?

[Skylark]

 

I bought a set of wheels from user RobertWhitehead they looked to be in great condition but arrived with the hubs needing a rebuild. The hubs are Shimano loose ball type and the wheels as a whole have very little signs of use but it would appear the hubs were overtightened at some point, they were overtightened when they arrived, they did not turn freely and were notchy. The fact that they had issues was plainly obvious when you spun them and Robert must have spun them because he said the wheels ran true when I asked. His description of the hubs was "pretty smooth".

 

When I brought the issue of the hubs up with Robert he didn't dispute it and promised to send the parts to fix them, I needed 2 replacement cones, ideally 3(2 cones were completely stuffed and one was on the way out). He found a match for the back hub and then he stopped responding to my whatsapp messages. I left it for a few days and then pm'd him on Bikehub in case he'd lost his phone or something and he did respond and said yes he has been ignoring my whatsapps because he's now decided the wheels are old and I can't expect them to be in good condition both cosmetically and mechanically and won't be sending the parts. The 4 bike shops I contacted all said the spares for these hubs are also neigh impossible to order from Shimano.

 

It's a 26" rim brake wheelset, they were R600 which is pretty much the going rate on bikehub, they are the typical OEM wheelset of the time with Jalco rims and Shimano hubs. It's not a huge amount of money but the principal of it feels wrong, that a seller feels entitled to knowingly sell you something that is damaged without making you aware of that fact.

 

So the question is am I being unreasonable here to expect a seller to be upfront with issues?
What would an acceptable remedy be?

 

The thread heading refers to Roberts own thread regarding getting sold something he wasn't expecting:

https://forum.bikehub.co.za/topic/188074-am-i-being-unreasonable-here/

 

 

[Skylark]

Robert claimed he could send the wheels for R99 via Postnet, which I didn't believe and said as much because the volumetric weight would be over 5kg(what the R99 will cover). He said he was 100% sure and if there's any additional fees that he would cover it. The waybill below shows a volumetric of 20kg which should cost around R400 to send. Which may go some way to explain his current unwillingness to help me but if he did only pay R99 I would love to know how he managed that.

 

 

[Shebeen]

https://www.google.com/search?q=popcorn+gif&rlz=1C1CHBF_enZA887ZA887&sxsrf=APq-WBt2wE4eZ5VuMpNUviMD7sHWoNa40g:1646308994960&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=7iai_KQDb1OGiM%2CD_DRbg02U6yBBM%2C_%3BtTM4I04MEf7T4M%2CBcudpNbDxamKBM%2C_%3BZEKL7UbIwetpjM%2CrH58sOpW9uzNdM%2C_%3BX4RR48pSQpCHpM%2CdF6JUdO4QO9vWM%2C_%3BHur0pBGZntJkBM%2CCz8V0eKCTg-zYM%2C_%3BYeuXqgNgLI3YrM%2CZ6hlUoT_67dssM%2C_%3BcUoYayDJSrcCXM%2CKN4hZ50bEXSE1M%2C_%3Bg-EWDM6uMg9oTM%2Cd4__LdEiiKvQKM%2C_%3Br2noaSCCl47xDM%2CX_I1JhU-BKB6SM%2C_%3BcqYsqJToUk2ZqM%2CKN4hZ50bEXSE1M%2C_%3BCNZMeHiRAKE9nM%2CZ6hlUoT_67dssM%2C_%3B1OQjgAaaFaHlXM%2CUtyGNVlfZaLpFM%2C_%3BfAVOPADJNIkHeM%2CX_I1JhU-BKB6SM%2C_%3BV9Vr5bQ9_5l2lM%2CX_I1JhU-BKB6SM%2C_&usg=AI4_-kR4i-yf8y_pvCMfyoC01---1419rg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn1db28qn2AhUEilwKHQXVBggQ9QF6BAgCEAE#imgrc=7iai_KQDb1OGiM

[SwissVan]

Ai ai ....

Popcorn going cheap....

 

Damnit Shebeen

[Skylark]

Sorry I forgot to add pics of the cones, here they are:

Rear drive side:

Front cone one:

Front cone two:

[NotSoBigBen]

13 minutes ago, SwissVan said:

Ai ai ....

Popcorn going cheap....

 

Damnit Shebeen

My BikeHub popcorn budget is shot for this month sorry ...

[Headshot]

I don't think your expectation is unreasonable at all. 

My pet hate at the moment is the time wasters who take up your time and leave it up to you to follow up with them when they lose interest in your low value item  after concluding a sale but not paying. 😞 

[RobertWhitehead]

So ya sure, I admitted the wheels to be smooth and I also admitted that they were running true and without any visible defects. Did I strip them down and gave them a proper service? For R600, and then I had to pay the R400 for shipping because I made a mistake in assuming that everything under 5kg was R99 nope, why would I do that? Did I ask for more money to the OP because of my mistake? No, I sucked it up and paid for it.

Do I have stock of exactly what he needs, yes I do.

Am I going to send the OP replacement parts? Hell no, he expects me to replace the worn parts on wheels that are well over 20 years in age. Those pitting marks are not due to over tightening, those pitting marks are due to wear and tear as the cones rub against the metal bearings, you need to be the hulk to over tighten so that it causes that damage.

The bottom line is that the wheels are operational, they are in very good condition - (do us a favor Al and post some kiekies of the condition of the wheels as well) they have no cosmetic damage and or major dings on the exterior and those cones still function as I spun them prior to sending them. Are they rough? Possibly, did I tell myself that because those V-brake wheels had been hanging in a garage for more than 10 years and that they were probably in need of some lubrication, most probably. Will they explode or seize up if he uses them as is? No they wont

Yes I stopped replying and I stopped entertaining his virtual rummaging requests (I send him photos of axles with cones, he comments if they were the ones he needed and I had to carry on rummaging). 

[Skylark]

1 hour ago, RobertWhitehead said:

So ya sure, I admitted the wheels to be smooth and I also admitted that they were running true and without any visible defects. Did I strip them down and gave them a proper service? For R600, and then I had to pay the R400 for shipping because I made a mistake in assuming that everything under 5kg was R99 nope, why would I do that? Did I ask for more money to the OP because of my mistake? No, I sucked it up and paid for it.

Do I have stock of exactly what he needs, yes I do.

Am I going to send the OP replacement parts? Hell no, he expects me to replace the worn parts on wheels that are well over 20 years in age. Those pitting marks are not due to over tightening, those pitting marks are due to wear and tear as the cones rub against the metal bearings, you need to be the hulk to over tighten so that it causes that damage.

The bottom line is that the wheels are operational, they are in very good condition - (do us a favor Al and post some kiekies of the condition of the wheels as well) they have no cosmetic damage and or major dings on the exterior and those cones still function as I spun them prior to sending them. Are they rough? Possibly, did I tell myself that because those V-brake wheels had been hanging in a garage for more than 10 years and that they were probably in need of some lubrication, most probably. Will they explode or seize up if he uses them as is? No they wont

Yes I stopped replying and I stopped entertaining his virtual rummaging requests (I send him photos of axles with cones, he comments if they were the ones he needed and I had to carry on rummaging). 

I guessed what you paid at Postnet was the problem but it's hard to have sympathy for you about that Robert and neither is that an acceptable reason to choose to be a douchebag and screw me over.

I specifically asked you how you would be able to send a wheelset at Postnet for R99 because that only covers 5kg volumetric. And in any case what's wrong with admitting to your mistake and letting me know Postnet is going to be ridiculously expensive, we could have rather used a courier which you said was around R160.

This was your replies regarding me questioning you being able to send it at Postnet for R99:

"Yip, two wheels are less than 5kg 😬. I send and receive about 3-5 packages per week 🤪"

"I am 100% sure yes, if there's any additional fees I will cover it. I have received and sent wheels in the past"

Edited March 3, 2022 by Skylark

[Skylark]

Your shipping mess up is besides the point, I feel sorry for you but that was your choice from beginning to end.

My problem is you were not upfront about the wheelsets issues and you lied about the condition of the hubs. Your exact words above "I admitted the wheels to be smooth" but they are not smooth and that was plainly obvious when you spin them, which you also admitted you did do.

Seeing how little those wheels must have been used I can only see that damage coming from being overtightened but whatever caused it is besides the point, you don't a free pass to be dishonest just because something is old.

And the hubs being stuffed isn't a minor issue, that renders the wheels unusable for me, I either need to repair the hubs or find a wheelset that is genuinely in good condition, not just in good cosmetic condition.

I'm not buying wheels to hang up on the wall, I need to ride them.

[RobertWhitehead]

5 minutes ago, Skylark said:

Your shipping mess up is besides the point, I feel sorry for you but that was your choice from beginning to end.

My problem is you were not upfront about the wheelsets issues and you lied about the condition of the hubs. Your exact words above "I admitted the wheels to be smooth" but they are not smooth and that was plainly obvious when you spin them, which you also admitted you did do.

Seeing how little those wheels must have been used I can only see that damage coming from being overtightened but whatever caused it is besides the point, you don't a free pass to be dishonest just because something is old.

And the hubs being stuffed isn't a minor issue, that renders the wheels unusable for me, I either need to repair the hubs or find a wheelset that is genuinely in good condition, not just in good cosmetic condition.

I'm not buying wheels to hang up on the wall, I need to ride them.

So send them back then, I will refund you your money - telling me I lied is a stretch and telling me that its obvious the wheels are damaged when they are still in better condition than most 2021 wheel sets are also a joke. I do not understand what you're trying to achieve as you're clearly not getting your way by trying to lure me out with a thread about R200.

You need wheels, I sent you wheels you complained about the condition, I then tried to help by sending you pictures of the items I had, you then stated that this bolt was too big and that axle was massive and then said: come on you MUST have something in your spares. I was doing you a favor as I knew getting stock was going to be almost impossible. So now you still have no wheels for your commuter and you have alienated the only person who was in a position to help you out.  "Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind" So send me your banking details so that I can refund you for the wheels which are still in perfect working condition. 

[Chadvdw67]

1 hour ago, RobertWhitehead said:

So ya sure, I admitted the wheels to be smooth and I also admitted that they were running true and without any visible defects. Did I strip them down and gave them a proper service? For R600, and then I had to pay the R400 for shipping because I made a mistake in assuming that everything under 5kg was R99 nope, why would I do that? Did I ask for more money to the OP because of my mistake? No, I sucked it up and paid for it.

Do I have stock of exactly what he needs, yes I do.

Am I going to send the OP replacement parts? Hell no, he expects me to replace the worn parts on wheels that are well over 20 years in age. Those pitting marks are not due to over tightening, those pitting marks are due to wear and tear as the cones rub against the metal bearings, you need to be the hulk to over tighten so that it causes that damage.

The bottom line is that the wheels are operational, they are in very good condition - (do us a favor Al and post some kiekies of the condition of the wheels as well) they have no cosmetic damage and or major dings on the exterior and those cones still function as I spun them prior to sending them. Are they rough? Possibly, did I tell myself that because those V-brake wheels had been hanging in a garage for more than 10 years and that they were probably in need of some lubrication, most probably. Will they explode or seize up if he uses them as is? No they wont

Yes I stopped replying and I stopped entertaining his virtual rummaging requests (I send him photos of axles with cones, he comments if they were the ones he needed and I had to carry on rummaging). 

You are in the wrong in my opinion, you even admit to possibly righting off the rough feeling to old age, if you had been upfront with the buyer, told him they were rough he could have turned the wheels down, but no, you told him they were running smooth to make a sale....

 

Those bearings are FUBAR, they are not in "perfect" working condition, if that is what you call "perfect" I would hate know what the bikes you build up for people look like, it is actually just shocking.

[love2fly]

RH The courier stuff up is your and yours alone. IMHO the buyer bought wheels which INCLUDES hubs. The hubs should match the general appearance of the hoops send your statement as to the condition doesn't only pertain to the hoops buy they buy as a whole. Hubs are an integral part. Do the right thing and charge it to "school fees". 

[RobertWhitehead]

I do not have a problem paying for the courier, I accepted that, paid it and moved on. I have already said that I will pay his money back. I do not have an issue with that either. What I am not going to do is to send him replacement parts for wheels which was in a working condition when I sent them. He can send me a dm with his banking details then I will refund him his money.

[AdamA]

2 hours ago, Skylark said:

Sorry I forgot to add pics of the cones, here they are:

Rear drive side:

Front cone one:

Front cone two:

 

 

Those Cup and Cone bearings and Axels look shot!!  but you should be able to get them from any Bike shop for about R50

Did you use BikeHubPay?

it's the only way I would buy something without viewing it in person

 

 

[Milosh]

All this on an old R600 set of 26r wheels ?? 

YOU two have wasted that much of my time reading  this  😉 

and the cost of popcorn ........

On a thursday .....