CSA insisting on club membership

[Frosty]

Okay left off the funding but… to get funding, they need to be registered with SASCOC too.

[HdB]

2 hours ago, Ozzie NL said:

Hmm to me this is more about the principle of CSA forcing me to pay for something I do not want nor need and does not do anything with the funds to support cycling in SA but just uses it to pay salaries. That's when the anarchist in me takes over.

A principled anarchist?
If you disagree with the rule, don't do the events that are simply following the rules that have been set for them by CSA?

Not sure if it is still the case, but at some point part of the club fees in the Free State went to the regional body - if it were not for them there would have been 0 road events in Bloem the last two years.

[Blokman]

1 hour ago, Skubarra said:

Think in Gauteng things might be a bit different than here in the Cape, here it is checked frequently, even on some of the platteland basaar funrides I have done there was a csa auntie with a laptop checking memberships.

I think that same auntie and the laptop goes to Hartenbos for December holidays.

[DieselnDust]

41 minutes ago, HdB said:

A principled anarchist?
If you disagree with the rule, don't do the events that are simply following the rules that have been set for them by CSA?

Not sure if it is still the case, but at some point part of the club fees in the Free State went to the regional body - if it were not for them there would have been 0 road events in Bloem the last two years.

I think you've missed the point

The issue isn't whether or not a day license is needed or not, nor whether CSA membership adds value.

I think most people understand that CSA needs to be funded and day licenses are such a source of revenue. ✔️

The issue is that clubs have jumped on the band wagon and now want to be the middleman to your CSA membership.i.e. yo must first join a club (costing ZAR), then you can have your CSA membership approved and pay more ZAR. Then you can take out a license if you wish to be eligible to represent your province in inter provincial and national cycling events.

AthleticsSA has worked on this model for ages but running club memberships fees are small and generally running clubs offer a lot of value to their members.

In principal, having cycling clubs as middlemen isn't a bad thing as long as you get value for that membership. The issue is most riders feel that clubs in their area don't add value therefore why be forced to join.

My view is clubs are needed and its not a difficult thing to start your own.

You need 10 members and a bank account, fill in the form and send to your provincial body to get the club registered. The club pay san affiliation fee of R1500 (i think, it could be less). So each member pays aR150 and you give some guys a title on the form and take it from there

[Jewbacca]

20 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I think you've missed the point

The issue isn't whether or not a day license is needed or not, nor whether CSA membership adds value.

I think most people understand that CSA needs to be funded and day licenses are such a source of revenue. ✔️

The issue is that clubs have jumped on the band wagon and now want to be the middleman to your CSA membership.i.e. yo must first join a club (costing ZAR), then you can have your CSA membership approved and pay more ZAR. Then you can take out a license if you wish to be eligible to represent your province in inter provincial and national cycling events.

AthleticsSA has worked on this model for ages but running club memberships fees are small and generally running clubs offer a lot of value to their members.

In principal, having cycling clubs as middlemen isn't a bad thing as long as you get value for that membership. The issue is most riders feel that clubs in their area don't add value therefore why be forced to join.

My view is clubs are needed and its not a difficult thing to start your own.

You need 10 members and a bank account, fill in the form and send to your provincial body to get the club registered. The club pay san affiliation fee of R1500 (i think, it could be less). So each member pays aR150 and you give some guys a title on the form and take it from there

Is there a regulation on geographical proximity to other registered clubs?

We tried to do this for running and were told that there were two other clubs within our vicinity already registered and we could not register.

Might not exist in cycling. But ja, sometimes it is easier to just do it yourself! 

[HdB]

18 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

I think you've missed the point

The issue isn't whether or not a day license is needed or not, nor whether CSA membership adds value.

I think most people understand that CSA needs to be funded and day licenses are such a source of revenue. ✔️

The issue is that clubs have jumped on the band wagon and now want to be the middleman to your CSA membership.i.e. yo must first join a club (costing ZAR), then you can have your CSA membership approved and pay more ZAR. Then you can take out a license if you wish to be eligible to represent your province in inter provincial and national cycling events.

Not at all. I completely agree that ideally the clubs should offer some kind of value.

If, per the bolded above, the clubs "jumped on the bandwagon" to get some extra money without justifying it through adding value, shame on them, and it should be taken up through the correct channels.
Again this could just be a local thing, and I don't know if it is still the case as this was a few years ago, but my understanding is that at the time the local cycling shops were forced to have a club. So it might not always be a case of "the big bad clubs just want our money", is all I'm saying.

What I found odd was the "principle" on the one hand, and being a rebel on the other hand. Then again, our club's fees are < R100 irc, so easy for me to speak.

[DieselnDust]

29 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

Is there a regulation on geographical proximity to other registered clubs?

We tried to do this for running and were told that there were two other clubs within our vicinity already registered and we could not register.

Might not exist in cycling. But ja, sometimes it is easier to just do it yourself! 

there isn't a proximity clause that I could find, however you can't be registered in Gauteng and represent Western Province at Nationals or Provincials but you can race in WP provincials and earn Gauteng Cycling some points. So its not prohibited. Anyone in Cape Town can joing Vitality Cycling but they are registered in Gauteng but have national affiliation, one could in theory earn points for WP but I suspect not. You will have CSA membership so unless representing your province is a burning desire it is a workable option.

Creating your own club is a once off schlep but probably worth it in the long run

[Jewbacca]

6 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

there isn't a proximity clause that I could find, however you can't be registered in Gauteng and represent Western Province at Nationals or Provincials but you can race in WP provincials and earn Gauteng Cycling some points. So its not prohibited. Anyone in Cape Town can joing Vitality Cycling but they are registered in Gauteng but have national affiliation, one could in theory earn points for WP but I suspect not. You will have CSA membership so unless representing your province is a burning desire it is a workable option.

Creating your own club is a once off schlep but probably worth it in the long run

The topsy turvey world of cycling!

Classic

[DieselnDust]

9 minutes ago, HdB said:

Not at all. I completely agree that ideally the clubs should offer some kind of value.

If, per the bolded above, the clubs "jumped on the bandwagon" to get some extra money without justifying it through adding value, shame on them, and it should be taken up through the correct channels.
Again this could just be a local thing, and I don't know if it is still the case as this was a few years ago, but my understanding is that at the time the local cycling shops were forced to have a club. So it might not always be a case of "the big bad clubs just want our money", is all I'm saying.

What I found odd was the "principle" on the one hand, and being a rebel on the other hand. Then again, our club's fees are < R100 irc, so easy for me to speak.

In principal I have no issue joining a club. I think its good for the growth of the sport to have well functioning clubs. Its just that we have so few that really do function well. 

In principal, I don't like being compelled to pay for things that don't add value, sort of like submitting a tax return when the government steals my money and then takes more..So its a grudge activity and we'd avoid it if we could choose, especially under the current regime.

When principals and palatability diverge significantly we end up with rebellion. Significantly may mean something different to different people

 

 

 

[DieselnDust]

7 minutes ago, Jewbacca said:

The topsy turvey world of cycling!

Classic

it is bizarre how unclear rules can be.... but then when I read the stuff that gets gazetted and i listen to pie in the sky pipedreams I realise its not just cycling

[Shebeen]

38 minutes ago, DieselnDust said:

there isn't a proximity clause that I could find, however you can't be registered in Gauteng and represent Western Province at Nationals or Provincials but you can race in WP provincials and earn Gauteng Cycling some points. So its not prohibited. Anyone in Cape Town can joing Vitality Cycling but they are registered in Gauteng but have national affiliation, one could in theory earn points for WP but I suspect not. You will have CSA membership so unless representing your province is a burning desire it is a workable option.

Creating your own club is a once off schlep but probably worth it in the long run

I have no reason to join one, but actually had a look at what clubs there are out there, about as many in the southern cape as in cape town.

https://community.cyclingsa.com/categories/cycling-clubs/

[DieselnDust]

There are many in Cape Town. Some are just social groups.

a few participate in provincial league events. 
 

[The Ouzo]

 

In principle I'm fine with mandatory club membership. Provided though the club offers some form of value. And I'm talking value to cycling as a whole not just to the member. Far to many people have taken up cycling and enter races but have no idea of etiquette or skill. If by joining a club they get some sort of coaching to gain these skills then its a win.

But as has been said, to many social clubs around and not enough mentorship to newbies.

[ChrisF]

8 hours ago, Skubarra said:

.... in the Cape, here it is checked frequently, even on some of the platteland basaar funrides I have done there was a csa auntie with a laptop checking memberships.

 

On a lighter note ....

 

2019 we did a "bazaar ride" on a farm outside Worcester.

 

Nope, cant register and pay for the ride ... "Join that line and first pay your CSA day fee" .... okay, so be it .... 

 

At the start I joined the guys right at the far back .... then I moved up and joined the front line, with a bunch of youngsters and kids ..... The start was something like Suikerbossie, Adding in some sharp bends !!  It was about 100m to the first shapr bend, by which we were way past 40km/h ....  I was feathering the brakes on the outside line when two kids came past a FULL SPEED .... not sure they ever touched the brakes before heading through the shrubs .....

 

At this point I made the call to give it stick !!!  Get out front and stay away from the danger .....  where the farm road T-ed into the communal gravel road there were NO marchals and I nearly T-boned a bakkie !!!

 

I was doing about 50km/h along this gravel road when the first two riders passed me.  And then it was drift and a sharp turn as we happened upon a 90-degree turn onto a bit of single track, then over a makeshift bridge .....

 

The bridge T-ed onto another gravel road .... NO directional markers, NO marchals .... we looked at each other and the one commented that the riders briefing pointed to the LEFT .... and so we headed out to what we later found out was the wrong direction .....  We were about 8 riders that got totally lost .....

 

Once we realised it .... we just laughed and said: "Well, we paid for 40 km, we will ride 40km"

 

The highlight of my day .... being to TRAP up that horrible climb to the end without stopping (that was pre-ebike)

 

 

 

Clearly this bazaar organisers got it wrong .... we still had a good time out in the platteland.

 

 

Somehow, I just can not pay CSA fees without thinking they contributed NOTHING on this ride ... and then wondering what exactly they contribute to the next bazaar ride .....

[babse]

I have an active membership without being affiliated with a registered club... 

 

Well until October when it expires. 

[ACE Cycles]

We registered our social group of 40odd riders as a club for purely this reason. Now at least we get to decide how our money is spent to ensure we offer value to our members.