Wiggle/CRC future in doubt

[Spafsack]

I used Wiggle three times, always so easy to navigate and to order, and very fast delivery, this is actually a pity. Scary times in the world, in SA as well. Middle class is disappearing, everyone fighting just to stay alive, and the rich, are just getting richer. 

[Jewbacca]

8 minutes ago, Spafsack said:

I used Wiggle three times, always so easy to navigate and to order, and very fast delivery, this is actually a pity. Scary times in the world, in SA as well. Middle class is disappearing, everyone fighting just to stay alive, and the rich, are just getting richer. 

What do you mean?

According to some anecdotal noticings and economic predictions there is nothing wrong.

Pay no attention to the actual happenings, business closures, laying offs of staff etc, that is not a real indicator of things. 

Stats predictions based on assumptions is where the real answer lies!

[IceCreamMan]

1 hour ago, Jewbacca said:

What do you mean?

According to some anecdotal noticings and economic predictions there is nothing wrong.

Pay no attention to the actual happenings, business closures, laying offs of staff etc, that is not a real indicator of things. 

Stats predictions based on assumptions is where the real answer lies!

Don’t be so passive aggressive man. 
 

and don’t be so negative and fixating on some issues. Look at it holistically. 
 

have a groovy weekend. 
 

every hear of the tale of the 2 monks? 

[ChrisF]

1 hour ago, IceCreamMan said:

...

and don’t be so negative and fixating on some issues. Look at it holistically. 

....

 

Some might say @Jewbacca IS looking at the situation holistically ......

 

 

Looking at the big picture one can wonder why more than 10% of the models at this bike shop are still brand new 2022 models .... when traditionally at this time of year the last 2023 models would have been on special with back orders on the 2024 models.  At least, September 2018 that was the case with this same brand, and I picked up a 35% discount as they were getting rid of the 2018 models to make way for the 2019 stock.

 

BUT ... on the plus side ... much more of a BUYERS market now ....  (not exactly a booming sellers market)

[Brawler]

They own Nukeproof, Ragley and Vitus as well. Hopefully someone buys them. 

[IceCreamMan]

30 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

Some might say @Jewbacca IS looking at the situation holistically ......

 

 

Looking at the big picture one can wonder why more than 10% of the models at this bike shop are still brand new 2022 models .... when traditionally at this time of year the last 2023 models would have been on special with back orders on the 2024 models.  At least, September 2018 that was the case with this same brand, and I picked up a 35% discount as they were getting rid of the 2018 models to make way for the 2019 stock.

 

BUT ... on the plus side ... much more of a BUYERS market now ....  (not exactly a booming sellers market)

Bicycles are durable goods and last many years. Thus, one does not replace a bike too often. ( and we need to understand the hub represents a small portion of cyclists who I dare say are probably LSM 8 to 10) 

Statistically and factually the number of bicycles sold in 2023 will surpass those of pre Covid years. Now the rate of increase may be cooling compared to Covid years  but the market is selling more  

CRC , Wiggle have been around for many many moons and recorded a loss of 97 million in 2022 and 15 million in  2021  both BOOM years according to some  this on the back of revenues of hundreds of millions of pounds . In fact, wiggle has been making losses for quite some time posting an even bigger loss in the year before Covid. Thus, when looked at critically maybe something else is driving these losses and needs further investigation. Given the revenues of the group it needs scrutiny to understand why .  Evans, another chain that is/was big in the Uk has been closing stores even during the so called boom. 

they sky falling on our heads is emotive and prevents critical thinking. Fact is the cycling industry is selling more bikes than pre Covid years and the trend is expected to continue increasing  

( does one really finance a bicycle at R2816.42 owe month  damn ) 

 

[Meezo]

22 minutes ago, Brawler said:

They own Nukeproof, Ragley and Vitus as well. Hopefully someone buys them. 

So not nukeproof 🤪

[Iwan Kemp]

22 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

Statistically and factually the number of bicycles sold in 2023 will surpass those of pre Covid years.

Even if this holds true, it still does not mean the industry is healthy and even less so profitable, robust and in a good space. 

Takealot sells THOUSANDS of products a week, yet they lose millions and millions every year. Units sold is one part of the cog, and when there is close to zero margin, it is a VERY scary one. 

[IceCreamMan]

9 minutes ago, Iwan Kemp said:

Even if this holds true, it still does not mean the industry is healthy and even less so profitable, robust and in a good space. 

Takealot sells THOUSANDS of products a week, yet they lose millions and millions every year. Units sold is one part of the cog, and when there is close to zero margin, it is a VERY scary one. 

I hear you. 
 

there is without doubt a cooling off following the Covid years but it’s still expected to grow in comparison to pre Covid years. 
 

component manufacturers and frame manufacturers have been incredible at marketing and developing gizmos which then created a need, especially at the high end. Maybe they are victims of their own success. 
 

the cycling industry will outlive us. And in healthy profits too. Nothing to be scared of. 

[ChrisF]

31 minutes ago, IceCreamMan said:

...

they sky falling on our heads is emotive and prevents critical thinking. Fact is the cycling industry is selling more bikes than pre Covid years and the trend is expected to continue increasing  

( does one really finance a bicycle at R2816.42 owe month  damn )

 

 

"Sky is falling" and "critical analysis" is not the same thing.

 

For our industry the 40 year low in building plan approval could be considered "sky is falling", and YES many are closing shop !  BUT, it also means there are other points of focus, and by being adaptive in our business model we can still have a good year.  By applying "critical thinking" we can play the game and stay current.

 

 

Volumes of sales vs actual profit ... enough other posts have covered this.

 

 

 

Financing TOYS ... its been a thing for decades, and will continue to be .... 2009 I bought a year old BMW motorcycle.  Previous owner buys TWO motorcycles each year, this one was his wife's.  I bought it with barely 1 000km on the clock.  Transfer took a few weeks, as his HP still had to wrapped up. YES !!  He bought two more new motorcycles for that year !!  Hey, people like me LOVE these guys ... allows us to pick up bargains 12 to 18 months down the line.  Been similar stories on the Hub over the years.

 

 

 

Okay that's it for me.  Time for the weekend to start.  Keyboard can get some rest while I warm up the saddle 👍

[shaper]

SSU other sport, Tennis-Point also filed for insolvency, so not looking good for the cycling side.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/nukeproof-vitus-chain-reaction-cycles-and-wiggle-face-uncertainty-as-parent-company-restructures.html

[IceCreamMan]

2 minutes ago, ChrisF said:

 

"Sky is falling" and "critical analysis" is not the same thing.

 

For our industry the 40 year low in building plan approval could be considered "sky is falling", and YES many are closing shop !  BUT, it also means there are other points of focus, and by being adaptive in our business model we can still have a good year.  By applying "critical thinking" we can play the game and stay current.

 

 

Volumes of sales vs actual profit ... enough other posts have covered this.

 

 

 

Financing TOYS ... its been a thing for decades, and will continue to be .... 2009 I bought a year old BMW motorcycle.  Previous owner buys TWO motorcycles each year, this one was his wife's.  I bought it with barely 1 000km on the clock.  Transfer took a few weeks, as his HP still had to wrapped up. YES !!  He bought two more new motorcycles for that year !!  Hey, people like me LOVE these guys ... allows us to pick up bargains 12 to 18 months down the line.  Been similar stories on the Hub over the years.

 

 

 

Okay that's it for me.  Time for the weekend to start.  Keyboard can get some rest while I warm up the saddle 👍

Funny enough I bought a BMW motorcycle a few years ago with 114 miles on the clock. 3 years old. Like wtf. 
 

have a groovy weekend. 

[MORNE]

Guess i’m the only one wishing for it (bike industry) to crash and burn?🤣

 

[Mtree]

9 hours ago, Headshot said:

CRC has been around for years and was i think better run before the Wiggle buy out. What other options are there in the UK for we bargain hunting Saffers? 

I have used bike-discount.de before with good results.

 

some more

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/nukeproof-vitus-chain-reaction-cycles-and-wiggle-face-uncertainty-as-parent-company-restructures.html

Merlin cycles in the Uk offer very good service!

[Danger Dassie]

Spoke with a mate on zoom who has family working within the group, weighing quite heavily on them. Particularly with a toddler and new born. 

Anyway, objectively there’s a lot of discussion here at cross purpose that is essentially saying the things. 

Ice is not wrong, cycling ownership and participation numbers are at their highest in a longtime, far more than pre-covid. Any market that experiences a boom will see a contraction, that’s just how it works. Even for people who may have stopped post “boom” the balance is higher than previously. For the mid/long term that’s good.

A negative influence many don’t seem to be considering though, is the compounding knock on effect of oversupply on the back of manufacturing, shipping and logistics bottlenecks. Which started around late last year already. Some manufacturers had setup tents in parking lot’s to accommodate stock that brands refused to take on.
When there was a global bottleneck with a rush of demand, costs soared throughout manufacturing and supply chain. Shipping containers for example more than trebled in costs. This was all partly absorbed by brands and companies, and partly by middlemen and consumers. Come 2022/2023 we have an oversupply (mostly due to trying to play catch-up) in midst of a global economic downturn where everything has increased in cost.

worth a read https://www.bike-eu.com/46270/signa-sports-problems-not-only-related-to-cycling-industry-issues?giftCode=5MykuKUUQPeH2PR3BGaYbYhUY3YM1ViHYJFOc7jcsrC5m4coKcRGnVaQYKE_xxT7&social=copy

Edited October 20, 2023 by Danger Dassie

[shaper]

Wiggle / CRC have started their Black Friday sales already https://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/wiggle-black-friday-clearance-sales?fbclid=IwAR3UoyadynGogJs4p7Pdkb06ujp9FrIxgvJQ31oKS4FTLAtYV7NH2nXhy3I

I guess they are looking for cashflow.....