Dopers suck

[Spinnekop]

So if a athlete gets caught for doping, you saying that either the coach knew and did nothing or supplied him? I can tell you of 1 or 2 example that this is not the case in any way at all. No way.

 

With the cases in SA to date since David George was caught, do you not think that if an athlete takes a product from his/her coach and gets caught, do you not think he/she would of said something and ousted the coach to save their own bacon?

 

If memory serves me well, there was such a case of a 16 year old? that was done in my his coach?

Not sure about the facts.  Just remember the discussion vaguely.

 

 

[Brickleberry]

This is exactly what I was talking about... you're already upsetting the wrong people

 

And you resort to insulting the race now?

 

Do it properly and respectfully, or watch it fail

 

My last 2 cents

 

100% agree. This 1 man crusade to lambaste organizers is destined to land you in the proverbial poo, and go no where.

 

already been 2 mistakes that have had to be corrected. If you going to get clever at least be good at it.

[milky4130]

Why has the sanctioned dopers list not been updated on your website with names provided here?

[andydude]

We're talking about strictly defined rules - sanctions that are handed down by governing bodies. If the powers that be decide crossing a white line is a sanctionable offence, then sure - they can officially be labelled cheaters

 

To be fair, fands, those things he mentionds are strictly prohibited and even easier to sanction for. But see, already it's becoming a grey area, because you don't list all the cheaters, only the dopers. That's one rule. Would you also include motors in bikes? You see where this is going?

 

Don't get me wrong, I am as against doping as the next guy, but I can also see the bigger picture. And part of me do get why these guys are doping. As any athlete in the world. Everybody is pushing the boundaries in training, supplements, grey areas.

 

And now for the flame-me part, doping is not black and white. It's grey. People do accidentally take something they shouldn't. You just have to look at the prohibited list to see how silly it is. If I tell you 10% of supplements are contaminated, would you stop taking any supplements? If you get bust for using a contaminated supplement from a well known manufacturer, should we ban for life?

 

Part of the problem of doping is that they try to be professional with amateur structures. Sport is not sport anymore, it's a job. A business. Treat it then the same as the law. Have a special court decide if someone is doping intentionally, and if yes, be my guest, ban for one, two or ten life sentences.

 

ALL I'M SHOUTING IS THAT IT'S NOT BLACK AND WHITE !!

Edited May 9, 2016 by andydude

[milky4130]

If memory serves me well, there was such a case of a 16 year old? that was done in my his coach?

Not sure about the facts.  Just remember the discussion vaguely.

the michael & barry case?

[Gen]

I agree, publishing a list of races that don't allow ex-dopers - great.

 

Bashing & bullying race organisers on social media who don't buy into your narrow idea of how ex-dopers should be treated is wrong. No nuances, no discussion with this lynch mob - if you are not banning ex-dopers you are by implication fully supporting dopers and your race should suffer.

 

Like Andrew said, you are taking the fight to the wong people.

Yeah.. it a fine line..dialogue is needed between both riders and organisers.

 

And publicly going after them is no way of doing that IMO.

 

If they chose not to put it in the T & C we also need to respect that.

 

I am all for ex dopers not welcomed back

. BUT the governing bodies hand down bans and once those bans are over they have served their time, that also has to be respected. We may not agree with it, but it is what it is.

[HappyMartin]

I think doping and other kinds of cheating are awful. People using motors, riding underweight bikes, taking PED's all take something away from the sport.

 

But all sports have rules and some of those rules are the sanctions imposed for various infractions. Like rugby has suspensions and so on. I don't always like the rules but the deal is I do my best to follow them when I participate in the sport.

 

Cycling has bans as punishment for doping. They have a time limit. I'm OK with that. If it bothered me a great deal I would try get elected to a cycling body and change the rules.

 

Also I'm OK with the whole forgiveness and rehabilitation thing. I'm not Christian but I think forgiveness is an admirable thing to aspire to. Takes strength to forgive

[Alex L]

i would be careful about publishing peoples names sponsors names etc on an open forum bashing and slating people and events and organisers sounds like a lot like a medieval witchunt to me...

[Newboy]

I think doping and other kinds of cheating are awful. People using motors, riding underweight bikes, taking PED's all take something away from the sport.

But all sports have rules and some of those rules are the sanctions imposed for various infractions. Like rugby has suspensions and so on. I don't always like the rules but the deal is I do my best to follow them when I participate in the sport.

Cycling has bans as punishment for doping. They have a time limit. I'm OK with that. If it bothered me a great deal I would try get elected to a cycling body and change the rules.

Also I'm OK with the whole forgiveness and rehabilitation thing. I'm not Christian but I think forgiveness is an admirable thing to aspire to. Takes strength to forgive

 

100%

[fandacious]

Yeah.. it a fine line..dialogue is needed between both riders and organisers.

 

And publicly going after them is no way of doing that IMO.

 

If they chose not to put it in the T & C we also need to respect that.

 

I am all for ex dopers not welcomed back

. BUT the governing bodies hand down bans and once those bans are over they have served their time, that also has to be respected. We may not agree with it, but it is what it is.

 

 

So then why are so many races in SA taking a stance against ex dopers. First and foremost is cape epic - They have a cutoff date of 1 Jan 2012.

 

If they are prepared to do it, why would a smaller race throw such a big stink about not wanting to ban cheats?

 

Bear in mind, this was driven by a lot of pro and pro-am riders ASKING races to please ban dopers from entering their events.

 

So while average cyclists like you and me might not want it, its very important that good clean cyclists actually get a chance to get the results they deserve and not miss out on any potential sponsors or career paths due to a doper winning a race.

[gtr1]

So then why are so many races in SA taking a stance against ex dopers. First and foremost is cape epic - They have a cutoff date of 1 Jan 2012.

 

If they are prepared to do it, why would a smaller race throw such a big stink about not wanting to ban cheats?

 

Bear in mind, this was driven by a lot of pro and pro-am riders ASKING races to please ban dopers from entering their events.

 

So while average cyclists like you and me might not want it, its very important that good clean cyclists actually get a chance to get the results they deserve and not miss out on any potential sponsors or career paths due to a doper winning a race.

So what you are saying is that clean cyclists are worried about dopers winning races and denying them sponsors etc. But, the doper has already been caught and served his/her time. So you are assuming they are still doping after serving the ban. And also implying that there is no such thing as rehabilitation.

 

And if you follow all the other doping threads, as far as everyone is concerned, all cyclists, especially pros (and vets) are dopers.

 

So the ones worried about losing out on prize money and sponsors are actually the current dopers, and not the ones that doped, paid the price, and are maybe riding clean to avoid being caught again.

[fandacious]

So what you are saying is that clean cyclists are worried about dopers winning races and denying them sponsors etc. But, the doper has already been caught and served his/her time. So you are assuming they are still doping after serving the ban. And also implying that there is no such thing as rehabilitation.

 

And if you follow all the other doping threads, as far as everyone is concerned, all cyclists, especially pros (and vets) are dopers.

 

So the ones worried about losing out on prize money and sponsors are actually the current dopers, and not the ones that doped, paid the price, and are maybe riding clean to avoid being caught again.

 

whew - theres a strawman argument if i ever saw one.

 

Did you read the marathon champs thread? was everyone excited that BS won 35-39 and fastest time overall?

[Patchelicious]

I think that is important to remember that not all of us are amateurs, most of the resentment to dopers comes from the guys who finish second to known dopers. This isn't just about me and you and Fands, we are all big boys and can make our own choices as to who we support and which races we prefer based on personal preferences.

 

I also think that it is important to remember the sentiment with this initiative is a good one. Fands in not trying to be a knob, he passionately dislikes dopers, maybe a bit too passionately I don't think that we should be ripping his idea apart and finding fault, but rather help him in making this as effective as possible, after all we all dislike dopers and cheats, some just more than others.

 

As for calls to list all cheats, I am sure that if you submit a link to a rider being sanctioned for any cheating offense, that Fands will add it. Remember that they must have been sanctioned by a recognized governing body, else the list will have no credibility, it will also just be plain wrong for people to be listed based on opinion.

 

My contribution: Fands, maybe try only list sanctioned cheats and list races that have stated that they have taken a stance against dopers. Let's try and keep the sentiment positive, I am sure that this initiative will gain more traction if that is the approach.

 

So;

"Sanctioned Dopers/Cheats"

"Awesome Races"

 

Only for now. And let's try and convince races that it's good to be on that list, not strong arm them into a corner and lose their support.

 

I would support that approach 110%

[Gen]

So then why are so many races in SA taking a stance against ex dopers. First and foremost is cape epic - They have a cutoff date of 1 Jan 2012.

 

If they are prepared to do it, why would a smaller race throw such a big stink about not wanting to ban cheats?

 

Bear in mind, this was driven by a lot of pro and pro-am riders ASKING races to please ban dopers from entering their events.

 

So while average cyclists like you and me might not want it, its very important that good clean cyclists actually get a chance to get the results they deserve and not miss out on any potential sponsors or career paths due to a doper winning a race.

Have any of the races that still allow dopers that have served their time to race given a reason why they still allow them to participate?

[Gen]

whew - theres a strawman argument if i ever saw one.

 

Did you read the marathon champs thread? was everyone excited that BS won 35-39 and fastest time overall?

Anyone know if doping control was at marathon champs?

 

If i recall correctly BS said on this forum that he would continue using testosterone.

[Pure Savage]

Have any of the races that still allow dopers that have served their time to race given a reason why they still allow them to participate?

They just state they are following the law. Which is fair. 

 

Although, it was also law in the past to keep slaves. Does not make it right, but its the law. 

 

A time period ban does not work for doping as has been proven, in time the laws will change and it will become, you dope, you are gone. 

 

If a CA(SA) gets caught drinking and driving, there is no 2 year ban from being a CA(SA) then registering again. Its, you get caught, you get a criminal record, good bye, game over, no rehabilitating and thanks for playing. There is zero chance that a CA(SA) will take the risk of drinking and driving. Same should go with professional athletes. 

 

Sick of these kids gloves we use on professional athletes, its the real world man up.