Do eBikes belong on the mountain?

[Eldron]

Washing machine was maybe was a poor analogy, but I do think in 30 years from now when ebikes will inevitably be as common or even more common on our trails and streets as any other bike, well say:  "remember those crazy days when we weren't allowed to ride our ebikes on the trails..."

 

and i get the point of being unfair to "athletes", hence the importance of splitting the "competing" crowd from the fun riders.

 

How many of the 2000 people that cycled transbaviaans with me 6 weeks ago really call themselves "athletes"...  Although there weren't many weekend warriors around, most of us were just there for the experience, enjoying the scenery, the great soup at bergplaas and throwing in a bit of suffering and friendship in the mix along with some terrible 1AM jokes about chafing body parts...

 

I live in a small town, so by far the hardest part of an event like that (and sometimes a barrier to entry) is getting people of similar ability to train and ride with you...  I was lucky to get an entry from a varsity friend that had a team member pulling out this year, but if that didn't happen I wouldn't have been able to ride the race, purely because I don't have riding buddies that are/were up for a race of that distance.

 

Unfair maybe, but I won't mind the slightest...

 

I agree that emotorbikes are going to get more and more popular - I just don't see how you can put motorbikes and bicycles in one race. It's apples and oranges. Where do you draw the line? Emotorbikes will get better and eventually you'll be able to complete a whole race with 10% pedal power and 90% motor.

 

The rise of the non timed "race" is going well and maybe that is the place for emotorbikes. Events where time is not important and people go just to have fun. Emotorbikes will broaden the amount of people that can enter.

 

I'm not opposed to emotorbikes at all - I'm just a little old school and would much rather rise to the challenge, train for an event, suffer like a dog and walk away with the full experience rather than let the motor do 25% of the work for me.

 

I am a "racer" though - I'm sure there are tons of people out there that would rather ride once or twice a week then use a motor to finish a race beyond their ability without concerning themselves at all with the "ethics" of it (and the missed opportunity of the reward that comes with "doing it yourself").

 

Each to their own - I will always have a problem with motorbikes in bicycles races :-)

[Patchelicious]

I agree that emotorbikes are going to get more and more popular - I just don't see how you can put motorbikes and bicycles in one race. It's apples and oranges. Where do you draw the line? Emotorbikes will get better and eventually you'll be able to complete a whole race with 10% pedal power and 90% motor.

 

The rise of the non timed "race" is going well and maybe that is the place for emotorbikes. Events where time is not important and people go just to have fun. Emotorbikes will broaden the amount of people that can enter.

 

I'm not opposed to emotorbikes at all - I'm just a little old school and would much rather rise to the challenge, train for an event, suffer like a dog and walk away with the full experience rather than let the motor do 25% of the work for me.

 

I am a "racer" though - I'm sure there are tons of people out there that would rather ride once or twice a week then use a motor to finish a race beyond their ability without concerning themselves at all with the "ethics" of it (and the missed opportunity of the reward that comes with "doing it yourself").

 

Each to their own - I will always have a problem with motorbikes in bicycles races :-)

 

That^^

 

As with cars evolving from horse draw carts, eBike should get their own category when it comes to racing.

 

eBikes are awesome, and their development should continue and I would even be keen to buy one for commuting... but they are not bicycles and therefore they do not belong in bicycle races.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Patchelicious

[nickc]

That^^

 

As with cars evolving from horse draw carts, eBike should get their own category when it comes to racing.

 

eBikes are awesome, and their development should continue and I would even be keen to buy one for commuting... but they are not bicycles and therefore they do not belong in bicycle races.

 

eBike should get their own category when it comes to racing.

 

They do and its called Moto - X - MX for short.

 

They even have a world championships for it with well known makes such as Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki battling it out  

Edited September 29, 2017 by nickc

[Pure Savage]

Got passed by a oke on his e-bike at Karoo to Coast on Sunday. He was properly motoring, and his only delay was walking most of Ou Wapad with his G group. He passed me as the Ou Wapad descent became level ground, shortly before the R62 tar road at Avontuur. I never saw him again.

 

So, does an e-bike translate to unfair advantage? That is an unequivocal yes! They must be banned at races.

Which spot on the podium was he?

 

   

[L46]

i'm no ebike fan myself and may I never have a big enough brain fart to buy one personally...  but protesting ebikes in races (cycling events really, we just seem to call them races in SA) is almost like protesting washing machines back in 1908 when they were first invented...

 

like them or not, ebikes have undisputed merits and they appeal to some in a way that bicycles can never match.  Most significant advantage is that family members and friends of different physical abilities and fitness can enjoy time together in nature while each person can dial the "toughness" of their individual workouts by setting the level of assistance.

 

So why should someone and his/her boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/dad/mom/friend not be able to enter a ride together, have the weaker athlete (or both) ride on an ebike and then set the appropriate level of assistance so that both can have a good day out? 

 

You might say, then don't enter races and ride elsewhere, but lets be honest...  Races are by far the most safe and fun riding that you can find out there.  The roads are marked and marshalled, trails are maintained, land access has been arranged, water points are available and the route is safe, so to tell people they should go ride elsewhere with their ebikes is a bit shortsighted.  Maybe a few more ebikes are exactly what we need to change marginal events into something that is more sustainable in the long run?

 

Of course you need to maintain the concept of "human power only" for competition and prize purposes, but why can't you also enter sabi classic or sani2c with an ebike?  Are the rest of us really going to be that much worse off?

 

As much as I get a pain in my buttox when passed by an e-bike aunty even when out on a training ride, I totally agree with rudi-h's post. 

 

It happened the other day when I was doing a good interval session but couldn't catch up with the lady on a bicycle (e-bike) a few hundred meters in front.  When she eventually slowed and I pulled alongside her she smiled and said "I'm sorry I'm cheating".  I just joked along.

 

Why am I bringing this up, because I'd much prefer her (and many others) to be out on an e-bike, enjoying nature and herself, than sitting in front of the telly watching series or whatever.  It did not negatively impact my ride in any way, so why bother with the "cheating" argument.

 

Now to bring this back into "racing".  There is only a few of us really racing for top 10, podiums, prize money, sponsors etc. and I agree fully that there is no place for e-bikes in this part of the field (except for Stefan Sahm to bring us and the sponsors some much wanted race footage), as quite frankly it can become a dangerous situation when non-skilled riders mix it up here.  But I don't have a problem with e-bikers starting in the non-racing groups or at the back and "ride" along and enjoy the event in a safe environment.

 

We sometimes need to take a step back and see the bigger picture.  If family members with different abilities can use e-bikes to ride together, or people with disabilities can enjoy a bit of freedom, it adds value.

 

Yes I know most of us are competitive by nature, but to be honest, not many people will really care if one day, when retired or on your death bed, you tell them you placed 60th, 70th, 5283th in the Sani2C race or Cape Epic and you could've been 59th if it wasn't for the oke on the e-bike.

 

I also see the problems with assuming everyone will use it in good faith and I can see why we want them banned as well.  The problem is therefore not the e-bike, but the dof oke wanting to use it as part of mechanical doping to race with.

 

The solution might be to allow them to ride, but don't give them a time, as I don't see any point in someone racing with it.  In future some races might allow them and others not, it's really up to them which market they want to target.

 

My personal feeling;

 

E-bike racing:  Absolutely not

 

E-bike riding and adding value to life: With the correct rules and regulations and limitations, perhaps it may be possible, alternatively e-bike specific events.

[BigDL]

As much as I get a pain in my buttox when passed by an e-bike aunty even when out on a training ride, I totally agree with rudi-h's post.

 

It happened the other day when I was doing a good interval session but couldn't catch up with the lady on a bicycle (e-bike) a few hundred meters in front. When she eventually slowed and I pulled alongside her she smiled and said "I'm sorry I'm cheating". I just joked along.

 

Why am I bringing this up, because I'd much prefer her (and many others) to be out on an e-bike, enjoying nature and herself, than sitting in front of the telly watching series or whatever. It did not negatively impact my ride in any way, so why bother with the "cheating" argument.

 

Now to bring this back into "racing". There is only a few of us really racing for top 10, podiums, prize money, sponsors etc. and I agree fully that there is no place for e-bikes in this part of the field (except for Stefan Sahm to bring us and the sponsors some much wanted race footage), as quite frankly it can become a dangerous situation when non-skilled riders mix it up here. But I don't have a problem with e-bikers starting in the non-racing groups or at the back and "ride" along and enjoy the event in a safe environment.

 

We sometimes need to take a step back and see the bigger picture. If family members with different abilities can use e-bikes to ride together, or people with disabilities can enjoy a bit of freedom, it adds value.

 

Yes I know most of us are competitive by nature, but to be honest, not many people will really care if one day, when retired or on your death bed, you tell them you placed 60th, 70th, 5283th in the Sani2C race or Cape Epic and you could've been 59th if it wasn't for the oke on the e-bike.

 

I also see the problems with assuming everyone will use it in good faith and I can see why we want them banned as well. The problem is therefore not the e-bike, but the dof oke wanting to use it as part of mechanical doping to race with.

 

The solution might be to allow them to ride, but don't give them a time, as I don't see any point in someone racing with it. In future some races might allow them and others not, it's really up to them which market they want to target.

 

My personal feeling;

 

E-bike racing: Absolutely not

 

E-bike riding and adding value to life: With the correct rules and regulations and limitations, perhaps it may be possible, alternatively e-bike specific events.

Agree with the allowing them to ride, but not giving them a time. I would be quite interested to understand liability risk for organisers if someone riding an ebike at 60 km/h wipes someone else out. Surely putting motorised and non-motorised bikes in the same race is adding to the risk.

[Robbie Stewart]

Agree with the allowing them to ride, but not giving them a time. I would be quite interested to understand liability risk for organisers if someone riding an ebike at 60 km/h wipes someone else out. Surely putting motorised and non-motorised bikes in the same race is adding to the risk.

 

I am trusting that this refers to doing 60 km/h on the flats? As I nearly wiped a oke out when I was doing 70 odd km/h descending Spitskop to De Vlugt on Sunday, when the oke decided to suddenly veer right straight into my path during the K2C. He was completely oblivious, I on the other hand almost needed a new pair of shorts and I am sure there is a brake mark of record length on the gravel...

 

I am not sure ebikes will add another level of risk that doesn't already exist anyway, I just perceive them to be mechanical doping, although some valid points have been raised which until now I never considered.

 

I think ebike riders must be in their own category at races, and be timed separately from the rest of the bunch, else why on earth do the normal bike riders train so hard during the year?

 

I am not saying it should have anything to do with where you place, it just sucks that you get passed by a ebike in a race so early on, knowing that he or she has an added advantage, and will get measured according to the same yardstick as you. Something about that leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[Skubarra]

 

The solution might be to allow them to ride, but don't give them a time, as I don't see any point in someone racing with it.  In future some races might allow them and others not, it's really up to them which market they want to target.

 

The one problem here is that that your race is influenced by the riders around you (not just talking about an ebike wiping you out at 60km/h) - you are not riding in isolation.

 

That old auntie on the ebike can now in theory race past you on the climbs and then hold you up on the singletrack - no point in trying to get fitter to avoid that is there?

 

Okes you dropped earlier can get drafted back to you by someone on an ebike?

 

I'm sure I can come up with a whole lot more examples.

 

We all can agree that nobody wants an ebike to podium and nobody cares about someone doddeling along on an ebike right at the back, it is everywhere in between where it becomes a grey area and will get messy because there is no clear distinction between "racers" & "social riders" where the ebikes will fit in.

 

The bigger picture involves more than giving "everybody" the chance of experiencing a cycle race.

[Pieter-za]

Specific e-bike races will be good for R&D.

 

As mentioned  -  only as a separate race or cat like in: 

 

http://bhsouthafrica.co.za/south-africas-1st-electric-bicycle-e-bike-race/ 

Edited September 29, 2017 by Pieter-za

[SwissVan]

I agree that emotorbikes are going to get more and more popular - I just don't see how you can put motorbikes and bicycles in one race. It's apples and oranges. Where do you draw the line? Emotorbikes will get better and eventually you'll be able to complete a whole race with 10% pedal power and 90% motor.

 

The rise of the non timed "race" is going well and maybe that is the place for emotorbikes. Events where time is not important and people go just to have fun. Emotorbikes will broaden the amount of people that can enter.

 

I'm not opposed to emotorbikes at all - I'm just a little old school and would much rather rise to the challenge, train for an event, suffer like a dog and walk away with the full experience rather than let the motor do 25% of the work for me.

 

I am a "racer" though - I'm sure there are tons of people out there that would rather ride once or twice a week then use a motor to finish a race beyond their ability without concerning themselves at all with the "ethics" of it (and the missed opportunity of the reward that comes with "doing it yourself").

 

Each to their own - I will always have a problem with motorbikes in bicycles races :-)

You can't call yourself old school if don't ride / race a 26" mtb

 

Yes all the mtbks in my keller are 26"

 

☝️

[mrcg]

Why is everyone getting their panties in a knot?

Let us also allow everyone to do as they wish - ride a normal pedal powered bike or an e-bike. Everyone has the same rights. The OP asked whether they belong on a mountain - my question would be: why not? For me, there is no obvious reason why not! And the arguments against might have some validity, but i have some reservations here. A heavier bike is like a heavier rider on a normal bike - thus same impact on trails?!

And I am not an ebike rider....and won't be for the next 10 years at least. I will ride with my muscles as long as they allow it. And I do a lot of events.

If there is an event that caters for both, then I would consider it obvious that there would be separate categories - as it currently is for different distances. The trick would be starting times as there will again be disparate achievement/capability levels of competitors. Mixing both on a mountain trail i would agree might lead to some frustration - but this also needs to be tested.

Lastly, a thing to remember is: those ebikes are heavier thus "harder" to descend with, again, depending on skill levels. So they might be quicker uphill (depending on traction/underground) but possibly slower downhill. Does this even it all out? Not quite, as one makes way more time uphill. But riding in separate groups/starting times would make this point moot.

Anyway, my point is, each to their own. Everyone is allowed to make a choice and go where they like. One group doesn't have more rights than the other.

[Patchelicious]

Why is everyone getting their panties in a knot?

Let us also allow everyone to do as they wish - ride a normal pedal powered bike or an e-bike. Everyone has the same rights. The OP asked whether they belong on a mountain - my question would be: why not? For me, there is no obvious reason why not! And the arguments against might have some validity, but i have some reservations here. A heavier bike is like a heavier rider on a normal bike - thus same impact on trails?!

And I am not an ebike rider....and won't be for the next 10 years at least. I will ride with my muscles as long as they allow it. And I do a lot of events.

If there is an event that caters for both, then I would consider it obvious that there would be separate categories - as it currently is for different distances. The trick would be starting times as there will again be disparate achievement/capability levels of competitors. Mixing both on a mountain trail i would agree might lead to some frustration - but this also needs to be tested.

Lastly, a thing to remember is: those ebikes are heavier thus "harder" to descend with, again, depending on skill levels. So they might be quicker uphill (depending on traction/underground) but possibly slower downhill. Does this even it all out? Not quite, as one makes way more time uphill. But riding in separate groups/starting times would make this point moot.

Anyway, my point is, each to their own. Everyone is allowed to make a choice and go where they like. One group doesn't have more rights than the other.

 

Looks like the only knotted panties belong to you, everybody else has seemed reasoned so far.

 

Before getting on your eQuality high horse, read what the people are saying. People are welcoming eBikes on the trails and in general, they are just suggesting that its better to keep pedal powered and motor powered bikes apart when it comes to racing. Its not about eQual rights, its about eQual advantage or should I be allowed to do the 947 on a GSXR1000?

[lechatnoir]

Why is everyone getting their panties in a knot?

Let us also allow everyone to do as they wish - ride a normal pedal powered bike or an e-bike. Everyone has the same rights. 

 

This is being FAAR too sensible for a Friday. You should be ashamed of yourself!!!     

 

Seriously though, speed differentials aside, who cares... But then it comes down to 'ride sensibly, not like a d!ck', and that's a Friday thread of note... 

[nickc]

Looks like the only knotted panties belong to you, everybody else has seemed reasoned so far.

 

Before getting on your eQuality high horse, read what the people are saying. People are welcoming eBikes on the trails and in general, they are just suggesting that its better to keep pedal powered and motor powered bikes apart when it comes to racing. Its not about eQual rights, its about eQual advantage or should I be allowed to do the 947 on a GSXR1000?

 

 

Yes - look what you have now started - I bet my Suzuki GSXR1000 is faster than yours   

Edited September 29, 2017 by nickc

[shaper]

 

Yes I know most of us are competitive by nature, but to be honest, not many people will really care if one day, when retired or on your death bed, you tell them you placed 60th, 70th, 5283th in the Sani2C race or Cape Epic and you could've been 59th if it wasn't for the oke on the e-bike.

 

 

I care very much.. as I race to get a better time and to improve my seeding.... if my seeding is now affected because of ebikes... then too right I care!!

 

Perhaps it is 59th this race and that gives me something to work on... which may be 49th in the next race.... there again it could be 69th in the next race because of all the ebikes!!

 

And none of it has to do will telling my grand children how I did on my death bed.... but for my own personal goals and ambitions.

 

Maybe you have no interest in racing or bettering yourself where many of us do!!

 

So I repeat, there is no place for ebikes to be in cycle races!

 

You want go enjoy the trails at weekends, visit places you would never get to under your own pedaling then that is fine... but compete in races and say you came 58th... no, never !!

 

Am sure it time there will be plenty of ebike races only and that is where they belong, but not mixing it up with regular cycle races.

[mrcg]

Looks like the only knotted panties belong to you, everybody else has seemed reasoned so far.

 

Before getting on your eQuality high horse, read what the people are saying. People are welcoming eBikes on the trails and in general, they are just suggesting that its better to keep pedal powered and motor powered bikes apart when it comes to racing. Its not about eQual rights, its about eQual advantage or should I be allowed to do the 947 on a GSXR1000?

?????????

Patch, maybe re-read what i wrote without putting your spin/interpretation on it.

Then re-read what you wrote.

I actually addressed it all exactly in your vein of thinking.

But it's ok....it's been a long week. Friday syndrome has hit lol

Enjoy the weekend