Shimano Launch All-New 12-Speed Deore Groupset

[T-Bob]

I've always loved the lower tier Shimano lists. just rock solid and unbreakable. Perfect to throw into any N+1 build or a rowdy hardtail, just forget about it and ride.  

[Captain Fastbastard Mayhem]

I've always loved the lower tier Shimano lists. just rock solid and unbreakable. Perfect to throw into any N+1 build or a rowdy hardtail, just forget about it and ride.  

This, paired with an XT shifter....

[T-Bob]

This, paired with an XT shifter....

 

That is a good call. Nice. 

[PappaWatTrap]

From looking at the current price point the cassette would be ($ converted with NO import markup) around the 2k mark... For that price I will stick to my XO1 1x11 speed as the replacement parts cost the same.

 

Its a lot cheaper to have 2x chainrings and swap them based on the race type you are doing than to go 12 speed and has been working well for me so will stick with 1x11 as there is nothing wrong with it

Makes sense to save a buck or 2. The shifting performance on the new 12 speed however is really something to experience.

[ChrisF]

will the new 11 speed fit on the older hubs ?

[MTB-More]

Makes sense to save a buck or 2. The shifting performance on the new 12 speed however is really something to experience.

 

I see Shimano these days like the iPhone crowd. Their fanclub is always out in force about how fantastic it is but in actual facts its just like the rest with new marketing campaine and a fancy new box. At the end of the day its still Shimano and 2 years behind the rest.

 

SRAM is more the allrounder as their top line XX1, XO1, XO sets dwarf what Shimano has on all fronts and then they open up the market for everyone with their plastic range on SX and XN... 

Like Android does. 

 

In comparison a 12 speed is just a 12 speed and if you cant get up that hill with the 11, 10, 9 or even 8 speed you have... Train harder, tell your legs to shut up and push though. I bet when its actually released to the public and they start riding with it there will be a host of complaints like with any other budget range. 

 

Isolated testing is very BIAS depending on how hard the sponsor pushes the "fancy" and currently only 10 ppl realisticly have tested it and gave their sponsored opinions EXACTLY the same that happened when the NX came out. Sponsor reviews cant be trusted.

Edited May 9, 2020 by MTB-More

[WrightJnr]

I see Shimano these days like the iPhone crowd. Their latest is always out in force about how fantastic it is but in actual facts its just like the rest with new marketing campaine and a fancy new box. At the end of the day its still Shimano and 2 years behind the rest.

 

SRAM is more the allrounder as their top line XX1, XO1, XO sets dwarf what Shimano has on all fronts and then they open up the market for everyone with their plastic range on SX and XN...

Like Android does.

 

In comparison a 12 speed is just a 12 speed and if you cant get up that hill with the 11, 10, 9 or even 8 speed you have... Train harder, tell your legs to shut up and push though. I bet when its actually released to the public and they start riding with it there will be a host of complaints like with any other budget range.

 

Isolated testing is very BIAS depending on how hard the sponsor pushes the "fancy" and currently only 10 ppl realisticly have tested it and gave their sponsored opinions EXACTLY the same that happened when the NX came out. Sponsor reviews cant be trusted.

Sorry, I don’t agree. I’ve got XO and XT. There ain’t 2 years difference!

[MTB-More]

Forgot to add. Microsprine is another R2000 on top of everything

 

https://www.evobikes.co.za/dt-swiss-240-350-shimano-xtr-12-speed-micro-spline-rotor-kit.html

[hansolo]

I read somewhere the hubs run on sealed bearings? Is this the end of cup-and-cone for Shimano?

[PappaWatTrap]

I see Shimano these days like the iPhone crowd. Their fanclub is always out in force about how fantastic it is but in actual facts its just like the rest with new marketing campaine and a fancy new box. At the end of the day its still Shimano and 2 years behind the rest.

 

SRAM is more the allrounder as their top line XX1, XO1, XO sets dwarf what Shimano has on all fronts and then they open up the market for everyone with their plastic range on SX and XN...

Like Android does.

 

In comparison a 12 speed is just a 12 speed and if you cant get up that hill with the 11, 10, 9 or even 8 speed you have... Train harder, tell your legs to shut up and push though. I bet when its actually released to the public and they start riding with it there will be a host of complaints like with any other budget range.

 

Isolated testing is very BIAS depending on how hard the sponsor pushes the "fancy" and currently only 10 ppl realisticly have tested it and gave their sponsored opinions EXACTLY the same that happened when the NX came out. Sponsor reviews cant be trusted.

Yes I agree Shimano was slow to get onto 12 speed. And yes XX1 and XO1 is excellent from SRAM.

 

I think once you've experienced what it feels like to shift gears under load and doing so effortlessly with the Shimano 12 speed then you'll struggle to convince yourself that they are 2 years behind.

 

I think you have the brands mixed up though, SRAM = Apple? A new XO1 cassette costs R6000, for that money you can get a new SLX 12 speed shifter, chain, cassette, derailleur and a new microspline hub. The SLX probably has the same or even better shifting.

 

But in the end it does come down to the legs you are right...can't buy yourself up that hill

[DieselnDust]

I read somewhere the hubs run on sealed bearings? Is this the end of cup-and-cone for Shimano?

 

 

at the Deore level yes. XTR and XT still run on cup and cone

[PhilipV]

I see Shimano these days like the iPhone crowd. Their fanclub is always out in force about how fantastic it is but in actual facts its just like the rest with new marketing campaine and a fancy new box. At the end of the day its still Shimano and 2 years behind the rest.

 

SRAM is more the allrounder as their top line XX1, XO1, XO sets dwarf what Shimano has on all fronts and then they open up the market for everyone with their plastic range on SX and XN...

Like Android does.

 

In comparison a 12 speed is just a 12 speed and if you cant get up that hill with the 11, 10, 9 or even 8 speed you have... Train harder, tell your legs to shut up and push though. I bet when its actually released to the public and they start riding with it there will be a host of complaints like with any other budget range.

 

Isolated testing is very BIAS depending on how hard the sponsor pushes the "fancy" and currently only 10 ppl realisticly have tested it and gave their sponsored opinions EXACTLY the same that happened when the NX came out. Sponsor reviews cant be trusted.

I'm going to assume that you are an android fan?

 

Having used SRAM and shimano, and Apple and Android, I reckon the only part of your analogy that holds true is that people are a fan of the one and then prefer that ecosystem.

 

They have different feels due to the different actuation ratios, and people either prefer the solid direct shifting of sram, or the smooth quiet no fuss shifting of shimano. If you like baking then you'll pick sram, if you want a solid workhorse then it's shimano.

 

I've run top end of shimano and the top end of sram, and the bottom end of both. At the top end there isn't much between them but personal preference, but I'll never pick SX or NX over deore. Or at all actually. At the bottom end I've had too many issues with sram build quality and the finickyness of their 11speed when setting the indexing. Gone are the easy setup of SRAMs 10spd systems. Even XO1 has had me vloeking next a workstand. Nee dankie.

[Wayne pudding Mol]

Pricing aside I would hope that the 12 speed Shimano range is fantastic - after all they’ve had so much extra time to develop it

Incremental improvement is easier than innovation

I’m sure Sram will raise the bar and Shimano will have to start over

[sirmoun10goat]

I wonder what will be next. SRAM recently released their 12sp road, so I can’t see them looking at 13sp. And there are so many variations of other brand 12sp cassettes, from 9t to 52t. Maybe an eagle v2, with some refinement to the internals, for some ‘shifting enhancements’?

[Rigardt@Scott]

I'm going to assume that you are an android fan?

 

Having used SRAM and shimano, and Apple and Android, I reckon the only part of your analogy that holds true is that people are a fan of the one and then prefer that ecosystem.

 

They have different feels due to the different actuation ratios, and people either prefer the solid direct shifting of sram, or the smooth quiet no fuss shifting of shimano. If you like baking then you'll pick sram, if you want a solid workhorse then it's shimano.

 

I've run top end of shimano and the top end of sram, and the bottom end of both. At the top end there isn't much between them but personal preference, but I'll never pick SX or NX over deore. Or at all actually. At the bottom end I've had too many issues with sram build quality and the finickyness of their 11speed when setting the indexing. Gone are the easy setup of SRAMs 10spd systems. Even XO1 has had me vloeking next a workstand. Nee dankie.

100% with you. For low end stuff - stay away from Sram, for high end stuff it's preference.

 

I have run everything from XTR to XO1 to NX, SLX, and deore. In the GX/XT and below "class" Shimano is just streaks ahead. I'd go as saying I'd rather have Deore than GX. With Shimano's lower end groupos you get the same performance as the high end stuff with more weight and less price. As for Sram, my current GX Eagle, previous NX 11speed leaves alot to be desired.

 

As for the high end stuff, I am not going to say one is better than the other, but I prefer the feeling of Sram. I have XO1 11speed on my hardtail, and it has been flawless since 2016. I have just ordered XO1 Eagle (very close to pulling the trigger on AXS, but I just cannot justify that amount of money) to replace the GX Eagle on the Enduro bike. The solid click just works for me, and aesthetically I prefer Sram's gear.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Grease_Monkey

[PhilipV]

I reckon electronic and integration of different systems is where they'll focus next instead of adding another click. And definite refinements of it to follow.

 

Di2 might trickle down to SLX eventually, and AXS will also trickle down.

Shimano might clean Di2 up a bit to catch up to the wireless AXS. Maybe bundle their PRO branded seatpost and bars into Di2 somehow? Maybe route all the Di2 cables through the bar ala Magura so that it looks like a singlespeed.

 

 

I wonder what will be next. SRAM recently released their 12sp road, so I can’t see them looking at 13sp. And there are so many variations of other brand 12sp cassettes, from 9t to 52t. Maybe an eagle v2, with some refinement to the internals, for some ‘shifting enhancements’?

I can't see mtb drives going 13 spd, the stories I've heard about how finicky it is to get eagle and Shimano (although less stories, but not out that long so fair) absolutely perfect is very hard.

 

Maybe di2 of xtr 12spd is next for Shimano

 

But 13spd won't happen I think