Duane_Bosch Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 I don't know much about motorcross so I'd ask what other parallels there are between the two industries. Assuming there are legitimate reasons for pricing disparity. The 1st of which comes to mind is. Have things changed in the motorcross industry in lets say the last 5 years? Does a 5 year old motorcross bike seem as redundant today as a 5 year old mountain bike?Mmm. Interesting question. I do think you have a solid point there. A motocross bike from 2010 looks contemporary and can still tear your arms out of their sockets whereas a 10 year old MTB really does look ancient.
Jewbacca Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 I see it more like football. The economy is created by the demand, whether it makes sense to parallel industries or not. How can 1 man with no tertiary education earn 250 000 euro a week to kick a ball and entertain the working class? The economy is driven by the need of the middle class to watch and manically support sports. The bike industry and it's 'stand alone' inflated economy is driven by people 'needing' the newest and greatest. It doesn't make sense when taken out of the bike industry. We should stop trying
Kranswurm Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 surely they're not that similiar? You can buy a specialized bike for R4k, yet you're showing the top of the range CEO richwanker SWorks version that is R190k. I'm sure the top of the range BMW GS goes for silly like ~R500k, which would be a more apples with apples comparison.Nope
LazyTrailRider Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 I see it more like football. The economy is created by the demand, whether it makes sense to parallel industries or not. How can 1 man with no tertiary education earn 250 000 euro a week to kick a ball and entertain the working class? The economy is driven by the need of the middle class to watch and manically support sports. The bike industry and it's 'stand alone' inflated economy is driven by people 'needing' the newest and greatest. It doesn't make sense when taken out of the bike industry. We should stop trying In my experience, most things which seem like economic absurdities are simply an effect of - contrary to how we perceive it - how incredible complex the world actually is. To limit information overload, most people think of individual wealth (which is what drives luxury goods purchases) in easily understandable brackets. You're working class, middle class, upper middle class, high net worth, ultra high net worth, etc. The reality is that there are *hundreds of millions* of tiny levels of relative wealth just within the blanket definition of "middle class". Each of these levels of wealth has a set of operational parameters which make sense only to the individual whose wealth it is. The thing is, as social creatures we like to compare notes and find some of common ground on which we can relate to others and compare ourselves to them, so we come up with simplified thinking along the lines of "surely the average middle class 35 year old South African cyclist can't afford to spend R190k on a mountain bike?" This is where we make the mistake... I make this same mistake regularly: During any given day, I'll see more than one person driving around in a new-ish R900k BMW X5 and I absentmindedly think "how can there be so many people earning R300-R350k a month?" because proportionally related to my own income and spending ability, that's the level I would need to reach before I would consider a R900k X5. But you see, I'm wrong. There are thousands of possible ways for someone to end up in a R900k vehicle. It's the same with bikes. This "how can it be?" thread (although there are many others) represents both a drop in the ocean in terms of the total market of individuals for bikes, and an insignificant representation of the financial diversity out there.
MTBeer Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 We live in a 3rd world sheet hole so the price we pay for 1st world luxury products is inversely proportional to the competence of our government.
bertusras Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 I did the same last night, but the thing is this. We are showing RRP on our spreadsheets of what the components cost us to buy locally. The manufacturers should be getting these components at hugely reduced prices, yet they end up with a price similar to what it would cost "us" to build the same spec up at. You would think it should be much cheaper to buy a fully built bike vs buying all the spare parts and slapping it on the frame (And granted that Spaz Evo with the wild paint job is drool worthy). Somewhere, something is weird. I don't think that something, somewhere is weird to be honest. In 2011 Specialized had a rumoured annual revenue of $500 million. "Bikes are booming today--industry sales in 2011 are up 37%. (Fitness products do well during bad economic times.) Driving the trend are two American companies, Trek Bicycle of Waterloo, Wis. and Sinyard's Specialized Bicycle Components." Source Edit: After some further digging I found a more up to date estimate: "Sinyard, in an interview from his home in Capitola, California, a beach community near Santa Cruz, said he's seen nothing like the COVID-19 pandemic in his 46 years in the industry. But Specialized, a billion-dollar company (more or less) is taking a financial hit like all businesses, he acknowledged, but especially in its overseas operations with so many nations under lockdown." Source With a sponsored teams and riders list that's really not shy: "Many riders in recent years have used Specialized bicycles in the North American and European professional cycling circuits. In 2019, the professional road teams sponsored by Specialized are Deceuninck–Quick-Step, Bora–Hansgrohe, Boels–Dolmans and Axeon–Hagens Berman. Mountain bike riders sponsored by Specialized include the downhill world champion Loïc Bruni, who rides for the Specialized Gravity Team, Finn Iles, Jaroslav Kulhavy, Christoph Sauser, Lea Davison, Martin Soderstrom, Simon Andreassen, Sam Gaze, Hannah Barnes, Annika Langvad, Mitch Ropelato, Curtis Keene, 2:1 Racing, Nicholi Rogatkin, Dylan Dunkerton, Curtis Robinson, Matt Hunter and Howard Grotts. Sponsored triathletes include Brent McMahon, Jenson Button, Rubén Ruzafa, Non Stanford, Conrad Stoltz, Melissa Hauschildt, Tim Don, Lisa Norden, Chris McCormack, Francisco Javier Gómez Noya, Gwen Jorgensen, Lucy Charles and Benjamin Hoffman." Added to that massive marketing and R&D departments, it's no surprise that their products sell for as much as they do, and get sold for as much as they do.
arendoog Posted June 25, 2020 Posted June 25, 2020 First rule of business. A product is worth exactly what your customer is willing to pay for it. If this number is higher than the cost price you're running a business. If its lower then you're running a charity. 2nd rule of business bundle items to hide the individual costs and increase profits due to economies of scale. Select high perceived value items and bundle with low cost low perceived value items. Price according to high perceived value items. Figure out what your client is looking at and make that amazing; make everything they're not paying attention to ****. And this is why I buy my parts individually and build my own bikes.I build my own bikes ,by patiently buying the parts i want over a few months .I get what i want at the price i am willing to pay .I have yet to walk into a shop and buy a bike of the floor
Hairy Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 My poor prediction for 2021 Awesome low and medium priced bikes is where it "will be at" .... Deore + Revelation/Yari or the like suspension on capable alum framed duallies or hard tails with "house brand" components will be selling like hot cakes.....or at least overseas they will be. SA's MTB'ers may still be a bit status sensitive and up to a higher spec bike, but newer riders may take up on the predicted great value offerings.
Eddy Gordo Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 I have managed to build my last two bikes up for way less than what they would cost as a whole unit. However this was buying parts on sale and doing alot of the assembly myself etc.
T-Bob Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 My poor prediction for 2021 Awesome low and medium priced bikes is where it "will be at" .... Deore + Revelation/Yari or the like suspension on capable alum framed duallies or hard tails with "house brand" components will be selling like hot cakes.....or at least overseas they will be. SA's MTB'ers may still be a bit status sensitive and up to a higher spec bike, but newer riders may take up on the predicted great value offerings. If I were building up a N+1 bike that new Deb' Rev' with 35mm legs and the SLX / Deore kit is such a no brainer. I was so impressed with the last 'cheap' bike I rode. Only things that were letting it down were the wheels, saddle and grips.
SCD Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 My poor prediction for 2021 Awesome low and medium priced bikes is where it "will be at" .... Deore + Revelation/Yari or the like suspension on capable alum framed duallies or hard tails with "house brand" components will be selling like hot cakes.....or at least overseas they will be. SA's MTB'ers may still be a bit status sensitive and up to a higher spec bike, but newer riders may take up on the predicted great value offerings. I bet on a slight variance for the majority of buyers, to be like: "I'd planned to buy a new bike and saved the cash for it but on second thoughts my current steed is actually still just fine....and I might need the money to buy food...."End of story.
stefmeister Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 It's not just the local currency taking a beating that caused prices to soar.Comparing specs from a few years ago to now in the equivalent USD price bracket, you're getting a lot less "value" for your money.Looking at the $5k bikes, instead of getting XO with carbon cranks and a Pike/SID, you're now getting at best GX and a Revelation/Reba. And we're not even talking about the shitty brakes that made their way into the new builds. Where the bike builds below this had GX, they now have NX/SX boat anchors, and OEM/RS Gold type forks that replaced the Revelation/Reba. And don't tell me; YeAh, bUt 12 SpEad eAgLe, and today's entry level suspension is better than yesteryear's. That's called technological advancement, that should trickle down into lower end products, and not just keep on upping the prices every time they make a goddamn hub 6 mm wider.
Eddy Gordo Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 How far back are you guys talking about on pricing. If I take from lockdown, then I can tell you that there is short supply on raw materials, production lines are either not running or its at minimal staff levels.Currently we have issue getting stock as well. There are a few reasons. Some of them as above. Alot if suppliers are now asking COD and 30 day payment options are almost non existant. There is a demand for various items across various industries and because everything was in lock down, there is now short supply of goods. I hope tho that there will be a decrease in pricing once everything is up and running at full tilt again.In some way or the other I feel this is partly whats happening in the bike industry as well. I know HOPE has been closed down and new production runs have yet to happen.
arendoog Posted June 26, 2020 Posted June 26, 2020 I am in a fortunate position where i kept my old bikes .So i still ride bikes with 2012 frames and components .I see in the classifieds 2012 bikes with aluminium frames and full XT selling for around R15000 . I am still riding such bikes on a weekly basis .Although the modern bikes are nice to have ,I will hop on any of those old ones and do a comfortable stage race .I have never over serviced any bike or fork ,but bikes are cleaned and maintained as needed .The stress of riding a R200000 bike and leaving that on a bike rack ,worrying about every little scratch , defeats the purpose of thrashing a MTB and enjoying the sport full on ,cleaning it, and doing it again with little worry about your investment ."The enemy of good is better" .It applies to cycling also
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