Thinking about an eBike purchase

[aquaratza]

Aquaratza here is a different experiment for you to play with ....

 

How little can you use the motor during a ride ?

I pretty much already do that for 75% of my rides. It depends who I'm riding with. If it's with other eBikes then I up the assistance to match them, otherwise I usually ride with 10% assistance, which is enough to overcome the weight of the bike (24kg in my case). In practice 10% assistance mode on my bike, for the hilly routes I usually ride, works out around 40w average assistance.

 

Always nice having that extra power for getting to and from the trails, for that I sometimes turbo.

 

If I completely turn off my bike, I don't feel much of a difference on downhills and flats, but uphills are definitely harder... still do-able though. I raced someone the other day up a hill and I had completely turned off my bike. I would do it more, but it causes connection issues with my computer.

Edited October 19, 2020 by aquaratza

[mecheng89]

https://echo101-plus.com/product-category/ebike-hardware-conversions/

 

If you want to spend some bucks on going even faster on your electronic bicycle.

[blondeonabike]

I still dont get it

It's simple. These bikes are for girls like me to maintain with the guys.

[Dappere]

Aquaratza in January this year my hand was forced .... damaged knee yada yada ....

 

 

So my two options were either e-bike, or stop cycling .... according to two specialists

 

 

And so the search started .... and with each "Salesman" selling his product it certainly was not easy to come to a "fair comparison" between the different options and different brands .....

 

800km later on my e-bike, and even more hours watching youtube videos and "EMBN - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7Txz5nUDD14vCdNSU_JydQ" here are some random thoughts :

 

- the SA market is SMALL, and when you watch youTube videos you quickly realise we only have access to a minute portion of the options out there, so to some extent my feedback below will be tailored to what we can readily buy here .... (which then certainly is not the full picture, but the bit applicable to us)

 

- speed .... legally, and in terms of the bike warranty, the speed assist levels are limited as follows:

* Europe - 25km/h, ie Specialized

* America - 32km/h, ie Giant

(best to check the specific bike you are interested in, if this is an issue for you)

 

Practically speaking the 32km/h speed assist level is VERY handy for the tar sections to and from the trails. Once on the trails the 25km/h assist level certainly is more than addequate.

 

On this topic .... IF you are buying second hand, do take it for test ride, and FEEL what the effect is once you go past the assist level. Some of the older bikes did not transition nicely from assist to non-assist ..... terms such as "boat anchor" is used to describe some of the older technologies once you pass the speed assist level. Modern bikes are totally seamless in this transition, you only realise it once you hit the next uphill and you struggle to maintain the speed.

 

 

- over riding the speed limit .... uhm ja, this discussion always pops up .... with most bikes it is incredibly easy to over ride !!! BUT, the manufacturers would have us believe the computer records this, and the warranty is thus voided .... Frankly, with a 32km/h speed assist limit I have not experienced a need to fiddle with this ..... this will also put extra load on the battery and shorten your range, more about this next.

 

 

- Battery ....couple of this to consider :

* ease of removal .... Giant uses a key, then a quick-clip and the battery is removed. Some manufactures use a bolt, then the battery is removed. Some slip the battery into the down-tube, and the bike must be turned upside down yada yada .... This may be an issue once you start planning rides where you need to swop out batteries during the ride. As a rule of thumb, for the typical 50 to 60km trip this should not be needed, though I have drained a fully charged battery in less than 40km when riding INTO a gale force wind, and doing 600m of climbing .... so range is very much on a slide scale ....

 

* Capacity ... as per the above, the range is very much on a sliding scale. But my typical planning now is "less than 50km on the 500Wh battery" .... I would be very hesitant on entering a 55 km event with lots of climbing, on a single battery.

NOTE - with bust knees I DO use more battery than healthier riders may use, so "your" range will certainly differ.

 

There certainly is a conundrum with battery capacity when watching EMBN .... a portion of the market wants 750Wh and more, while others are willing to sacrifice Wh for a lighter bike. Obviously a larger battery dramatically impacts the bike weight.

 

As you already know, the 500Wh battery with the "range extender" seems a popular option.

 

 

- motor types ....for now let's only discuss the "mid-mount" motor, ie the one between the pedals. (you also get a motors fitted in the rear hub, the front hub, motor with a rollor onto the rear wheel, and various other permutations). Some of the more common mid-mount motors include

* Bosch ie Scott, Trek, etc

* Spezialised, ie Spez

* Yamaha, ie Giant

 

It would appear Bosch motors and batteries are most common in Europe, as many bike manufacturers use the Bosch systems, though Spezialised is often credited as the market leaders in R&D for ebikes .....

 

Bosch motors typically perform optimally at higher cadence .... something to bear in mind for gear selection in steep technical sections.

 

The Yamaha motor in the Giant kicks in at lower cadence, though it loves working at higher cadence. Very handy when your cadence drops in a particularly technical section.

 

I am not sure how the Spez handles this, and what the optimal cadence is for different riding conditions. Sure your friend can let us know.

 

 

 

- The ride "feel" .... after my first trail ride I said:

* the bike accelerates very fast, coming out of a slow technical section you pick up way more speed than you would with an ordinary bike in 2 or 3 pedal strokes ! Obviously you adapt to this quickly.

* though the bike is very heavy, you dont feel the weight while riding.

 

After a couple of rides I started experimenting ....

* you can select eco-mode, and work as hard as YOU want to. So you CAN still get a decent work out.

* you can use the power settings and use the bike as a "chair-lift" to get to the top refreshed, and have a day of fun enjoying the single track down-hill sections ....

* yes, you will get some interesting remarks along the trails .... it is part of owning an ebike. Mostly I make sure to pass people slowly, and great them .... minimal issues this way.

 

 

- Some random thoughts:

* It is VERY nice to know you wont be knackered after a particular mid-ride hill .... and depending on how you feel on the day, drop the power assist level and work as hard as you want to.

* when riding with friends on ebikes .... you WILL get a high cadence work out !! It is different to a normal bike, but dont for one section think you are going to have it easy ....

* transporting the bike .... think about how you want to transport the bike. This baby is significantly heavier than other bikes, and picking it up, mounting it to a rack, etc you will need to consider this. I have a lady friend that wants an ebike, but she believes she wont be able to cope with the weight .... certainly she is over cautious. Worst case, remove the battery and the bike is roughly the weight of a normal dual suspension.

 

 

 

- Programmability:

MOST of the bikes now have a "rider app" functionality linking your phone to your bike. This allows you to re-program the assist levels .... I may reduce the assist level on eco mode, as it would allow me to save some battery power for those sections where I dont need much assistance.

 

Apparently the Spez app even includes some map functionality. It also has a "get me home" program, where you pre-enter your ride, and tell the computer to make sure you have spare battery capacity to get home, thus limiting the assist levels during the ride.

 

 

 

- WHY buy an ebike ?

Only a portion of buyers do so due to medical issues.

 

The rest do so "because they can". This is no different to a road rider having a road bike, then buying a gravel grinder to join friends for some fun. Your normal bike will still be used for its intended purpose. The ebike simply opens a new world of options.

 

 

 

- Which brand ?

Clearly you may well buy the Specialized.

 

In February I spent a LOT of time in the Tygervalley Spez shop (actually in a few other Spez shops as well). I LOVE the TURBO LEVO. The bike looks good, it comes with a well known supply chain and back-up, the specs are good .... uhm, the 2019 specs were good. For 2020 they downgraded the specs .... I tried to get a 2019 in my size, but the staff at Tygervalley was more concerned in telling me why NX/SX is "as good as GX" .... and so the search continued.

 

As I was riding a Scott at the time, I went to two Scott dealers .... Larger battery and better range certainly got my attention !! Price was not bad, but again NX/SX (cant remember exactly which). What soured the conversation was the fact that the bike was shipped with tires that were NOT tubeless ready !! The dealer would not do a swop out ... I would have to pay full price for a new set of tires. Of all the bikes I looked at the very square downtube of the Scott was certainly thee ugly duckling of the bunch ...... All e-bikes are "bulky", but this one certainly took it to the extreme.

 

I went to Best Bikes twice ... and got totally conflicting information from two salesmen .... they had a top of the range on the floor, and was only interested in selling that. Still dont know what their entry level dual-suss ebike is (what I see on their website is not what they told me) .... By all accounts Trek has the best warranty, but would help if they had better distributors.

 

I also had a look at the new Giant shop in Durbanville. Raymond listened to my questions, then gave a broad outline of the options, then zoomed in on my budget and took time to explain what Giant offers. Thanks to his approach I asked about the the next level up bikes as well, and walked out of there with a much better "feel" for what they offer.

 

During the next week I visited all the shops again, checking specs, prices, and not least of all ... which bike actually looked nice .....

 

LOVE my Giant Trance E

 

PC-3.jpg

 

BB-5.jpg

 

Good bike, for a decent price, and EXCELLENT service at Giant Durbanville. They actually took the time to sell me what I needed, even though they did not have that model on the floor ... while most other shops were pushing hard to sell what they had in stock. And as a bonus, it only took 24 hours for Giant Durbanville to get the model into the shop for me.

 

 

 

Oops, sorry for the long reply. Hope some of the info may be helpful to you.

Mate of mine in our cycling group recently bought an e-bike. He was in the same boat as you, due to medical reasons, he either had to give up cycling, or get an e-bike. He went with the latter.

 

I certainly don’t hate e-bikes, I am of the believe that it gives more people the chance to get on a bike and experience the sport.

 

My mate still rides with us, him being the only one on the e-bike. He sits in the back of the bunch and keeps our pace, not the other way around. I believe that is the differentiator, being aware that you have this assisted power and who you are riding with.

 

E-bikers generally get a lot of flack, and one can say for good reason.

 

E-bike or not, respect the the group you ride with, then what you ride shouldn’t really matter.

 

Thanks for the informative post. Been looking at e-bikes for my Mum. At 70 years old she wants to start riding mtb.

[GLuvsMtb]

I also had a medical ‘situation’. In December 2019 I had a motocross accident, broke my Tibia and tore my Meniscus. After 6 weeks in a brace I was told that Motocross and Cycling would be a thing of the past and that I may require surgery to deal with the Meniscus.

I moped around at home and was kind of floating. While I was not riding as often as I would have liked before the accident, I certainly enjoyed having the option to go out for a ride. Suddenly I did not have the option anymore, until my wife suggested that I get an E Bike. My first reaction was “no-thanks”, but after consultation with my specialist, I decided to give it a go. (He is a cyclist as well, so he had a balanced view on the matter. His biggest concern was clipping in and out, and of course, falling and aggravating the injury).

 

I decided on the Specialized Levo Comp (2019 Spec, so I got the Lyric and SRAM GX group set) for a couple of reasons:

1. 700Wh battery is class leading

2. I have always received first class service from Specialized Stellenbosch, so there was a good relationship.

3. I got a very good deal (paid R90k for the bike, which retailed for R105 000 at the time).

 

More than 12 months on I have made the following observations:

1. People do not hate e bikes. They don’t like tjops. If a tjop rides an e bike, its not the bike that is hated.

2. I ride more often than before. I now manage to ride to G Spot via Stellenrust road from Somerset West and back home in just over an hour. I try to do this ride twice a week, and then try to get 1 longer ride in over a weekend.

3. I ride with riders that are not on e bikes and keep to their pace.

4. It is still a good workout, but I manage to preserve my knee much better and my heart rate does not spike as much as before

5. It does not handle as well as my Stumpy going down, but is in no way cumbersome to handle on the downs.

6. My chainset has lasted very well. With over 2000km on the bike in 12 months (with 2 months of no riding due to lockdown) I changed my chain when I destroyed my derailleur in December 2020 and it did not have excessive wear.

7. I changed out the 32t chainring for a 34t. I still have sufficient gears at the lower end, so may consider a 36t in due course.

 

I just came back from PE Plett where there was an e bike category. Day 1 was 82km and around 1100m ascent and riders could change out batteries (I was not going to pay R29k for a second battery, so had to manage on 1 battery). I came in with 3% left

Day 2 was 68 km and 1300m ascent but was quite a physical course, and somehow I managed to come in with 3% left

Day 3 I changed my settings down on eco mode (from 35% to 30%) and turned off accelerator assistance (from 20% to 0%). I had 35% left at the last water point, and could power in on trail mode over the last 18 odd kms with battery to spare (10%)

Day 4 I changed my eco mode up again to 35% and kept the accelerator assistance off, and could do the same as day 3 with more than enough power left to have an easier ride home. (The portage down the mountain at Natures Valley was less fun with a 25kg bike than previously on a 12kg bike)

There were 27 E Bikes in total, and I think all but 2 riders completed the ride (I know one was due to technical issues, was not sure why the other rider did not finish). The most popular bike was the Specialized Levo, with Scott and Trek making up the balance, with surprisingly no Giants in the field.

On the longer days the e bikes advantage was much less than on the shorter days and all in all I reckon I cut around an hour a day off what my non-e bike time would have been (If I had to guess).

While I would prefer to be 100% fit and be riding my Stumpy, I have come to accept that I am not 100%, and probably never will be again, so I am left with an e bike which is not a bad second prize at all. At least I am still riding

[OVERDRIVE]

Nobody wants to hear about my e-bike thoughts so will keep them to myself. 

[aquaratza]

Nobody wants to hear about my e-bike thoughts so will keep them to myself.

Haha, I feel like you need a hug.

 

I love my eBike (which I bought as a direct result of this thread)... but I still ride my normal bike. Rode it both yesterday and today

Edited March 7, 2021 by aquaratza

[BaGearA]

They have to use lithium batteries right? Like what else??

 

 

So does discharging them to 3% and 10% not murder that life expectancy of the battery? Just curious

[aquaratza]

They have to use lithium batteries right? Like what else??

So does discharging them to 3% and 10% not murder that life expectancy of the battery? Just curious

Lithium yes, as I understand it discharging below 10% is mostly okay, but storing the battery below ~30% isn't good. Storing them fully charged is also bad.

[Mike Mac]

“My mate still rides with us, him being the only one on the e-bike. He sits in the back of the bunch and keeps our pace, not the other way around. I believe that is the differentiator, being aware that you have this assisted power and who you are riding with”

 

100% agree with this.

 

I have an ebike and when I first arrived at a group ride where I was one of two ebikes, there were lots of snide comments and murmurings about the ebikes. I purposely ride at the back and ride at the pace of the slower guys in the groups. In order to still get a work out I have reduced the power right down to 15% max. After a few rides the group has become quite accepting of the ebikes and there is very little derogatory chirping. Ride like a **** and you will be branded as one.

 

Today I managed 109km with 1400m climbing on 80% of a 700w battery. A reasonable range can be achieved if one limits the amount of assistance and a solid workout is achieved at the same time.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Mike Mac

[Hairy]

Triumph Ebike commuter anyone?

[Rocket-Boy]

I also had a medical ‘situation’. In December 2019 I had a motocross accident, broke my Tibia and tore my Meniscus. After 6 weeks in a brace I was told that Motocross and Cycling would be a thing of the past and that I may require surgery to deal with the Meniscus.

I moped around at home and was kind of floating. While I was not riding as often as I would have liked before the accident, I certainly enjoyed having the option to go out for a ride. Suddenly I did not have the option anymore, until my wife suggested that I get an E Bike. My first reaction was “no-thanks”, but after consultation with my specialist, I decided to give it a go. (He is a cyclist as well, so he had a balanced view on the matter. His biggest concern was clipping in and out, and of course, falling and aggravating the injury).

 

Gman! its good to see you posting on here again, its been a while.

Sorry to hear about your injury.

But yeah perfect example of where an ebike is a good fit and still allows someone to cycle.

[aquaratza]

You don't need to be injured to make it ?morally? acceptable to ride an eBike. If you're able bodied and strong, riding an eBike makes you feel superhuman. It makes me want to push harder. It's just fun. A side effect I've found of riding my eBike is that my arms are getting stronger; my eBike is very heavy so I have to put more work into steering and centre of gravity/balancing maneuvers. It is very noticeable on climbs with lots of pebbles (like some of the Jonkershoek jeep tracks).

Edited March 13, 2021 by aquaratza

[Zebra]

Lithium yes, as I understand it discharging below 10% is mostly okay, but storing the battery below ~30% isn't good. Storing them fully charged is also bad.

" Storing them fully charged is also bad. "...

 

Was unaware of this, since I store mine pretty full - could you elaborate / explain? thanks!

[Mike Mac]

" Storing them fully charged is also bad. "...

 

Was unaware of this, since I store mine pretty full - could you elaborate / explain? thanks!

[Mike Mac]

There is a difference between storing and cycling (excuse the pun) the batteries. As far as I am aware there is no harm charging to 100% and then using the battery down to 20% over a few days and then charging back up to 100% (cycling the battery). That is what they are made for.

 

Storing for long(er) periods of time may benefit from a different approach (ie at 70% charge).

Edited March 13, 2021 by Mike Mac